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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! 20:58 - Jul 1 with 3587 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/01/fury-in-manchester-as-black-teen

FFS.....

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 21:37 - Jul 1 with 1906 viewsjeera

Given the context, your comment doesn't seem to make much sense.

It needs deleting I'd say.

Why use something so serious to take a cheap shot at the site you frequent and its users, especially when the two things don't marry at all in any way.

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:29 - Jul 1 with 1852 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 21:37 - Jul 1 by jeera

Given the context, your comment doesn't seem to make much sense.

It needs deleting I'd say.

Why use something so serious to take a cheap shot at the site you frequent and its users, especially when the two things don't marry at all in any way.


The twtd reference was largely tongue in cheek but also kind of relevant with recent calls to have people banned and such. There are certainly those on here from different political perspectives who would rather not read certain points of view. Better out than in I say.
However the main thrust of the post was to draw attention to the link which is highly worrying imho.

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:34 - Jul 1 with 1841 viewsSwansea_Blue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 21:37 - Jul 1 by jeera

Given the context, your comment doesn't seem to make much sense.

It needs deleting I'd say.

Why use something so serious to take a cheap shot at the site you frequent and its users, especially when the two things don't marry at all in any way.


What? You mean you’ve never attacked anyone with machetes or tried to run them over? Pah! I thought you were supposed to be well hard innit.

(There’ll be a lot more to this than the headline. Machete attacks for example aren’t exactly acceptable whatever grief you’ve been through).

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:36 - Jul 1 with 1835 viewsSwansea_Blue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:29 - Jul 1 by BanksterDebtSlave

The twtd reference was largely tongue in cheek but also kind of relevant with recent calls to have people banned and such. There are certainly those on here from different political perspectives who would rather not read certain points of view. Better out than in I say.
However the main thrust of the post was to draw attention to the link which is highly worrying imho.


I’m not sure anyone here has been dragged up in front of a jury because of their points of view. It does seem a bit of a forced link (putting it mildly).

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:39 - Jul 1 with 1830 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:36 - Jul 1 by Swansea_Blue

I’m not sure anyone here has been dragged up in front of a jury because of their points of view. It does seem a bit of a forced link (putting it mildly).


You mean you've never been summoned to explain yourself to the WhatsApp group!!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:50 - Jul 1 with 1798 viewslowhouseblue

i think that's pretty disgusting reporting by the guardian to be honest. it's the decision of a court - if you don't respect that then where are we?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:56 - Jul 1 with 1768 viewsSwansea_Blue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:39 - Jul 1 by BanksterDebtSlave

You mean you've never been summoned to explain yourself to the WhatsApp group!!


Luckily not! Besides zi wouldn’t be allowed in as I’ve stopped using WhatsApp because Facebook is owned by a ****.

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:11 - Jul 1 with 1736 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:50 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue

i think that's pretty disgusting reporting by the guardian to be honest. it's the decision of a court - if you don't respect that then where are we?


Ask an American woman.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:13 - Jul 1 with 1718 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:11 - Jul 1 by BanksterDebtSlave

Ask an American woman.


I might be mistaken, but I don’t believe that was by jury.
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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:13 - Jul 1 with 1714 viewslowhouseblue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:11 - Jul 1 by BanksterDebtSlave

Ask an American woman.


and your alternative is? seriously. that way madness lies.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:15 - Jul 1 with 1707 viewsSwansea_Blue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:50 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue

i think that's pretty disgusting reporting by the guardian to be honest. it's the decision of a court - if you don't respect that then where are we?


Unfortunately courts get things wrong sometimes. If the circumstances are suspect then that’s a story and it should be reported. I’m not defending the Guardian though, as I don’t know anything about the case. It sounds the court got it right for whoever was carrying out an attack with a machete and a car though.

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:19 - Jul 1 with 1677 viewslowhouseblue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:15 - Jul 1 by Swansea_Blue

Unfortunately courts get things wrong sometimes. If the circumstances are suspect then that’s a story and it should be reported. I’m not defending the Guardian though, as I don’t know anything about the case. It sounds the court got it right for whoever was carrying out an attack with a machete and a car though.


courts get stuff wrong and we have appeals.i wouldn't base an appeal on that guardian article.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:24 - Jul 1 with 1666 viewsSwansea_Blue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:19 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue

courts get stuff wrong and we have appeals.i wouldn't base an appeal on that guardian article.


No of course not and I never suggested they should. I’d accept the ruling but also keep an open mind that there could be issues with it IF there’s any basis to the claims in the article.

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:02 - Jul 2 with 1626 viewsKievthegreat

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:50 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue

i think that's pretty disgusting reporting by the guardian to be honest. it's the decision of a court - if you don't respect that then where are we?


What is "disgusting" about it?

It's an article about people protesting against a conviction and gives the opinion that they disagree with the decision. They've included a background to the crime, the arguments of why the people in question feel it is an injustice and key parts of the judges ruling that it was a conspiracy and they were gang members.
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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:10 - Jul 2 with 1604 viewslowhouseblue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:02 - Jul 2 by Kievthegreat

What is "disgusting" about it?

It's an article about people protesting against a conviction and gives the opinion that they disagree with the decision. They've included a background to the crime, the arguments of why the people in question feel it is an injustice and key parts of the judges ruling that it was a conspiracy and they were gang members.


and were those issues not presented to the court? how in a modern civilised society might we assess those issues? perhaps a court of some kind?
[Post edited 2 Jul 2022 0:11]

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:22 - Jul 2 with 1573 viewsYou_Bloo_Right

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 23:13 - Jul 1 by SuperKieranMcKenna

I might be mistaken, but I don’t believe that was by jury.


Birmingham 6.

That was a jury decision - heavily directed by a judge and process that manipulated and withheld evidence. Convicted August 1975, finally released March 1991 after a successful appeal.

Rule of law, yes. Appeals process, quite right. But .....


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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:28 - Jul 2 with 1558 viewslowhouseblue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:22 - Jul 2 by You_Bloo_Right

Birmingham 6.

That was a jury decision - heavily directed by a judge and process that manipulated and withheld evidence. Convicted August 1975, finally released March 1991 after a successful appeal.

Rule of law, yes. Appeals process, quite right. But .....



and your evidence for a miscarriage of justice in this case? and your alternative to a judge and jury?

birmingham 6 v. today's guardian agenda. hmmmm.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:32 - Jul 2 with 1547 viewsKievthegreat

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:10 - Jul 2 by lowhouseblue

and were those issues not presented to the court? how in a modern civilised society might we assess those issues? perhaps a court of some kind?
[Post edited 2 Jul 2022 0:11]


It was presented in court, then judgements and sentences have been handed down. A fact that wasn't exactly inconspicuous in the article. The article is about people who were displeased about the judgement and a march they held. They can still hold those views and air them, even after the court has made it's ruling in an opposing fashion.

So back to original question, what is disgusting?
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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:36 - Jul 2 with 1536 viewslowhouseblue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:32 - Jul 2 by Kievthegreat

It was presented in court, then judgements and sentences have been handed down. A fact that wasn't exactly inconspicuous in the article. The article is about people who were displeased about the judgement and a march they held. They can still hold those views and air them, even after the court has made it's ruling in an opposing fashion.

So back to original question, what is disgusting?


a serious newspaper pursuing an agenda to undermine court decisions.

people are very often displeased with court decisions. that's why we have courts.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 01:13 - Jul 2 with 1491 viewsYou_Bloo_Right

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:28 - Jul 2 by lowhouseblue

and your evidence for a miscarriage of justice in this case? and your alternative to a judge and jury?

birmingham 6 v. today's guardian agenda. hmmmm.


I am not suggesting that there was a miscarriage of justice, I am simply suggesting that such miscarriages can occur. Neither am I directly comparing the case of the Birmingham 6 with this current case. I am merely using the former as an example of a miscarriage of justice. Just as I am using a piece of ancient satire to highlight one of the many reasons that our courts are not infallible. I could equally have chosen Derek Bentley's case I guess.

Nor have I anywhere suggested that there is a viable alternative to criminal cases being tried by a judge and decided upon by a jury (indeed, I believe I indicated as much in my post).

I completely accept that I am not in possession of the full details of the prosecution or defence cases and, of course, we should all be aware that whatever we write on social media outlets is in the public domain. What I have seen of the case reports thus far, though, leads me to think that it is a bit of a stretch to find all the defendants guilty of conspiracy to commit murder when there seems to have been no agreement to do so, no hard and fast plan agreed by them all, no substantive evidence that there were all in a gang (as opposed to being acquaintances with a common friend) and no victim. Lives ruined by a few naive remarks and, being generous, an "over-zealous" judicial system.

" ... during their attempt to frame the boys as a ‘criminal gang’, an officer misinterpreted the slang quoted in one boy’s text. One piece of evidence submitted was a photo of a supposed ‘opposing gang’ in nearby Rochdale. This turned out to be an image of a London-based music group with the capital’s skyscrapers in the background.

... on one of the trial days, an officer mistook a message that one of the boys received about slain American rappers Notorious B.I.G and Tupac Shakur to be about Manchester gang members. The utter ridiculousness of slip ups like this may well have been lost on the judge, jury and prosecution of predominantly white, middle-class adults"

Whatever happened to "jury of their peers" and "beyond reasonable doubt"?

Edited to correct the usual array of spelling and grammatical mistakes.
[Post edited 2 Jul 2022 1:28]

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 03:18 - Jul 2 with 1417 viewsKievthegreat

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 00:36 - Jul 2 by lowhouseblue

a serious newspaper pursuing an agenda to undermine court decisions.

people are very often displeased with court decisions. that's why we have courts.


The story is about the protesting of that decision. What bits would you remove from the story?
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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 04:50 - Jul 2 with 1380 viewsIllinoisblue

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 22:50 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue

i think that's pretty disgusting reporting by the guardian to be honest. it's the decision of a court - if you don't respect that then where are we?


It’s a fair point; the serious press can twist and spin just as well as the tabloids. Without knowing the in and out of this case, some of those sentences seem incredibly harsh.

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 06:36 - Jul 2 with 1325 viewsPendejo

Are you saying that the police should only have acted once something that the messages related to had happened?

How many times are the police criticised for not taking proactive action to prevent serious violence, disorder and murder?
Example
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62007637

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 06:51 - Jul 2 with 1290 viewsGlasgowBlue

“ Adedeji contributed 11 out of the chat’s 345 messages. One saw him pass on the postcode of one of Soyoye’s killers. ”

So in a group chat where people conspired do carry out a violent revenge attack, this ‘innocent’ person provided the postcode of one of the potential victims? That makes him complicit in a conspiracy.

A misleading headline by you banksy and a very unbalanced article by the Guardian.

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Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 06:54 - Jul 2 with 1299 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Thought police....not just a twtd phenomena it seems! on 06:36 - Jul 2 by Pendejo

Are you saying that the police should only have acted once something that the messages related to had happened?

How many times are the police criticised for not taking proactive action to prevent serious violence, disorder and murder?
Example
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62007637


I don't for one minute imagine anything would have happened if 3 of the supposed gang hadn't attacked someone completely unrelated to this supposed conspiracy!

"Ademola Adedeji, 19, and three friends from Moston in north Manchester were each sentenced on Friday to eight years in prison for conspiracy to cause grievous bodily harm. They were jailed for taking part in a private group chat on the Telegram messaging app a few days after the murder of one of their friends."

"Adedeji’s coach at the Salford Red Devils youth rugby league team said he was “the type of star pupil we look for to go into the big leagues and hopefully on to the England squad”. At weekends, the teenager was a care worker for people with dementia.
His best friend, Raymond Savi, also 19, came from “the most loving family you can hope for”, his lawyers said. He had distinctions in his studies and a place at Salford University to study accounting.
Another of their friends, Azim Okunola, 19, was just about to finish his computer science and artificial intelligence degree with first-class honours when he was convicted, having completed the course in two years instead of three.
A further friend, Omolade Okoya, 19, was studying public services at college, with hopes of one day working for the police, ambulance or fire service."


"Adedeji, Savi, Okunola and Okoya were all convicted on the basis of a series of messages posted on a group chat called “MDs World [crying emoji]” in a few hours on 8 November 2020, three days after Soyoye was murdered.
None of the four had any weapons, nor took part in any violent acts or “scoping missions” to locate individuals to be targeted for violence."

“For these 10 boys, it is their knowing each other, whether through school or church, that has been manipulated to draw them closer together, and draw broader conclusions about what their knowing each other amounts to.
“Their associations become evidence of guilt. Shared schools, social media friendships, music interests, messaging groups and, of course, sharing being black has been used to frame them as a criminal gang.”
She said the private messages used to bolster a gang narrative were in fact “thoughtless, immature, emotional messages” which “became criminal, became intent: it feels like thought policing”.

Feels to me like a slippery slope made worse by stereotyping.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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