| Is anyone else concerned by this? 15:31 - Jul 26 with 14951 views | Darth_Koont |
We’ve just had the Forde Report corroborating one of the worst political scandals in modern times, certainly the most detailed and widespread. And yet our media couldn’t be less interested – bar the fact that many of them immediately copied the Labour spokesman who spun it as a problem with Corbynism that is now over.
But the key findings of the report remain:
– An unelected bureaucracy in one of the two parties that can effectively form a national government worked against their elected leader and the democratic mandate from members of the party.
– These senior staff, whose job and purpose is to support the leader and members the party represents, secretly and as Forde points out wrongfully diverted over 100K of electoral funds to the seats of anti-Corbyn MPs. It wasn’t their money nor had they the election nor democratic brief to do so. They allege it was to protect seats but these weren’t the seats at most risk. This is also in the 2017 election where a hung parliament was on a knife edge and May barely squeaked in with the support of the DUP. So beyond the utter moral failure and democratic abuse here, these efforts may have had repercussions for the whole country and its future. I’m not saying it definitely did or would have but this is why democratic abuse like this can’t be ignored.
– Antisemitism was being weaponised by the Labour right. And, as Forde also points out, the premise for the big debate in the media and beyond (including the Panorama hatchet job) was wrong and “evidence” that Corbyn had got involved a) unbidden by the HQ staff themselves and b) to block investigations and expulsions was entirely misleading. Forde didn’t use the words “attempts to frame Corbyn that overall succeeded” but he’s a lawyer and much more careful. But I’ll certainly put that out there as a question that those involved need to answer.
– The Labour HQ staff were leaking information and briefing “friendly” journalists at every step. So, in the fight against Corbynism (a fight against social democracy and change if we’re being honest), the unelected staff decided early on to take sides against the leader and the wishes of the members. In this way, they mirrored the PLP and prominently vocal MPs who also decided to act against the party’s own internal democracy.
– The culture within the Labour Party is toxic, not just with the unprofessional and undemocratic behaviour of far too many senior staff but also with sexism and racism. Forde received many, many complaints during the evidence gathering and submission phase (plus a few legal warnings from those who knew that the Labour leaks document was true and damning). Forde, coming through loud and clear despite his lawyerly and careful language, is evidently disgusted by a lot of these internal messages and communications. And he points to an organisation that is deeply flawed and toxic.
As I say, most of these issues have been relatively common knowledge and certainly discussed but were dismissed by factional MPs and their media lackeys as allegations. Yet the Forde report absolutely corroborates them and shows that the accepted narrative of the Corbyn years was just that – a narrative people accepted.
Now, that it’s out and independently corroborated where is the media response? How can we trust a media that painted a picture that it either knew was false or that it didn’t bother to investigate?
That’s serious and worrying enough. But what do we also say about a democratic party (the opposition and only alternative, as people are always keen to remind me) that’s been hijacked by genuine rightwingers who will monster and sabotage anyone elected by members to push the case for more equality, justice and a better life for the most vulnerable and ignored in society. What gives these people the right but also the conviction that they’re there to serve other unelected interests??!
For anyone who says this is over now so no use lamenting the past, think again. The Labour Right has total control of the party now – the internal and the political organisation. It’s amended the rules and taken power from the membership to avoid a repeat of someone from the left getting elected. It’s carried on the same purge that Forde describes when staff went around “trot hunting” (instead of dealing with antisemitism cases by the way) and where a “trot” was described as “anyone left of Gordon Brown”. It’s stood by and clapped along to the most dishonest leadership campaign in UK history where Starmer has misrepresented his values and views (as pledges FFS) to then backtrack on the whole programme and the social democratic platform he himself was committed to before and after the 2019 election if you believe his frequent speeches and statements.
If Boris and his government was a democratic scandal and a sign of dysfunctional party politics (it certainly was) then this saga is the same.
So why can I only see a lack of concern in the limited coverage and almost non-existent responses? Do people really think this doesn’t matter?
[Post edited 26 Jul 2022 15:35]
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:13 - Oct 10 with 893 views | lowhouseblue |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 13:41 - Oct 10 by noggin |
Said The Mail, The Sun, The Express, The Telegraph etc etc.. |
said the voters. etc etc |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:15 - Oct 10 with 871 views | lowhouseblue |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 13:37 - Oct 10 by Darth_Koont |
Of course. But you’re just repeating the narrative. That doesn’t make it based in reality but in the perceptions and characterisations that are fostered by you and others.
By way of illustration, Starmer is demonstrably dishonest and valueless. So that’s him cooked, right? ‘Course not. He’s a responsible and honourable grown-up according to the much repeated narrative.
The great lie was that Corbyn was dangerous but we can clearly see that the danger is from those doing all they can to convince us of that and defend the establishment politics which have been and continue to be appallingly bad for the country. |
i'm repeating what the electorate decided - or do you think he didn't lose by a landslide in 2019? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:16 - Oct 10 with 866 views | XYZ |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:13 - Oct 10 by lowhouseblue |
said the voters. etc etc |
When? Don't give me the 2019 GE as an answer.
Without some evidence - respectable opinion poll? - you're just attributing your own thought onto the wider population.
You made specific accusations - can you back them up? |  | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:18 - Oct 10 with 859 views | XYZ |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:15 - Oct 10 by lowhouseblue |
i'm repeating what the electorate decided - or do you think he didn't lose by a landslide in 2019? |
Which constituency had all these questions on the ballot paper?
"the leader wasn't trusted
they weren't trusted on fiscal policy and tax
they weren't trusted on defence
they weren't trusted on foreign policy
they weren't trusted on europe
they weren't trusted on immigration
they failed the public sniff test on anything to do with competence or trust". | | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:20 - Oct 10 with 854 views | XYZ |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:15 - Oct 10 by lowhouseblue |
i'm repeating what the electorate decided - or do you think he didn't lose by a landslide in 2019? |
British voters fell (again) for a lying liar telling lies. | | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:24 - Oct 10 with 850 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:12 - Oct 10 by XYZ |
I'm not sure that a country that has had May, Johnson and Truss as Prime Ministers can make an incompetence charge against Corbyn stick.
You need to look past the Murdoch & Co. cartoons. |
Cameron, Starmer, Swinson too.
About the only competent leaders in the UK seem to be Drakeford, Sturgeon and O’Neill. Mainly because they seem to be leading rather than dancing a silly jig to the latest deranged tune coming from the right-wing tabloids and the Westminster lobby journalists. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:36 - Oct 10 with 823 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:15 - Oct 10 by lowhouseblue |
i'm repeating what the electorate decided - or do you think he didn't lose by a landslide in 2019? |
Well, you’re not going to gaslight me and say that this was what the electorate decided on their own.
Anyway, Brexit was by far the biggest reason for the difference between 2017 and 2019. The narrative against Corbyn being amplified and further lies/misrepresentations woven into it was just extra colour.
You know this.
PS Several high-profile centrist Remainers will have to live with the fact that they torpedoed the chance of anything but a hard Brexit. Labour were meant to be the party who could offer a way out but many of them had spent the last 4 years laying into Corbyn and so poisoned the well completely. There’d be a certain irony/justice in that but sadly it screwed all of us not just them. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:46 - Oct 10 with 794 views | itfcjoe |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 13:41 - Oct 10 by thebooks |
Yes, that's definitely true, but more an argument for costing things scrupulously rather than refusing to move on from TINA. tbf to Corbyn and McDonnell, I don't think they lost because of failing to cost all their proposals - they were quite strict on that. Having said that, I think you could argue there were just too many things in the 2019 election to seem realistic.
Can you imagine if Corbyn had broken the economy as much as Truss? |
2019 became a bit of a joke, especially when after all the announcements and when seeming lacking credibility they basically said they'd reverse the WASPI pensions shamble at cost of another £15bn or what it was - that would certainly have been a case of another popular policy if polled that just wouldn't have passed the sniff test irl.
If Corbyn had done 1/10th of the damage Truss has done he'd have been crucified - Gordon Brown still gets massively criticised for selling the gold reserves despite leading the world through a financial disaster and keeping the country going. Sunak lost more money than the gold reserves cost us by failing to secure an interest rate - that will never be mentioned anywhere but was just utter carelessness opposed to making a decision |  |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:47 - Oct 10 with 794 views | itfcjoe |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 13:41 - Oct 10 by noggin |
Said The Mail, The Sun, The Express, The Telegraph etc etc.. |
And the electorate | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:57 - Oct 10 with 767 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:47 - Oct 10 by itfcjoe |
And the electorate |
But the electorate can’t be blamed for the narrative that was rammed down their throats.
So many smears, lies and misrepresentations. Literally countless. And it’s the other side of the same sh1tty coin that blithely puts people like Johnson, Truss or indeed Starmer anywhere near power.
The remarkable unwillingness of our politicians and media to deal with the real world, including basic stuff like facts or different evidence-based solutions has left a void where political and democratic representation should be. The results of that democratic deficit have been speaking for themselves for decades because that void is where right-wing populism absolutely thrives. | |
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| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:59 - Oct 10 with 757 views | thebooks |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 14:46 - Oct 10 by itfcjoe |
2019 became a bit of a joke, especially when after all the announcements and when seeming lacking credibility they basically said they'd reverse the WASPI pensions shamble at cost of another £15bn or what it was - that would certainly have been a case of another popular policy if polled that just wouldn't have passed the sniff test irl.
If Corbyn had done 1/10th of the damage Truss has done he'd have been crucified - Gordon Brown still gets massively criticised for selling the gold reserves despite leading the world through a financial disaster and keeping the country going. Sunak lost more money than the gold reserves cost us by failing to secure an interest rate - that will never be mentioned anywhere but was just utter carelessness opposed to making a decision |
Yes, and Sunak has become some sort of hero for financial probity.
Eat out to help out! |  | | |
| Is anyone else concerned by this? on 09:56 - Oct 22 with 532 views | Darth_Koont |
Sorry, missed this. And thanks – a very interesting inside view.
Yes, these people are a real worry. Anti-democratic, policyless but still remarkably zealous in their goal of stitching the Labour Party and official opposition into a neat little offering to the establishment.
The hardline anti-socialist/anti-social democrat stance is a key part of their pitch to get the well-paid job of representing establishment interests. [Post edited 22 Oct 2022 9:57]
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