Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine 15:16 - Aug 2 with 22444 viewsgiant_stow

and let Russia win their war (amongst other things, which I dare not mention):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-sto

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll: A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

-3
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:03 - Aug 3 with 872 viewsmarchy

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 14:59 - Aug 3 by gordon

Yes it's a brilliant strategy because of course polite requests for diplomatic solutions are famously Putin's Achilles heel.


Oh you never know, he might be up for a nice chat over a lovely cup of tea. Milk and two poloniums, was it?
1
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:08 - Aug 3 with 847 viewsJakeITFC

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 14:53 - Aug 3 by gordon

It's like talking to a brick wall because the situation is a brick wall.

You or Corbyn haven't actually got any coherent alternative strategy that you can share, because one doesn't exist.

There isn't anyone reputable suggesting or advocating anything else, other than that it is a choice between supplying weapons to Ukraine, or allowing Ukraine to be occupied.


But there is a point to be made that just supplying arms does lead to a prolonged conflict, right? And that other avenues, even if they seem to be unlikely, are preferable to extending a war?

I think the original point that this has been described of a process of how is a war going to be won as opposed to how is peace going to be found is basically the underlying crux of the matter - of course removing arms from the Ukrainian forces now would be a disaster but I really don’t think that is the point here (and it is a more general point I am making than the specifics of this conflict).
1
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:41 - Aug 3 with 789 viewsgordon

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:08 - Aug 3 by JakeITFC

But there is a point to be made that just supplying arms does lead to a prolonged conflict, right? And that other avenues, even if they seem to be unlikely, are preferable to extending a war?

I think the original point that this has been described of a process of how is a war going to be won as opposed to how is peace going to be found is basically the underlying crux of the matter - of course removing arms from the Ukrainian forces now would be a disaster but I really don’t think that is the point here (and it is a more general point I am making than the specifics of this conflict).


If Russia had invaded the UK, would you consider it to be reasonable for Ukraine to decide that people in Suffolk ought to live under Russian occupation and be part of Russia, to avoid a prolonged conflict?

If not, then we need to supply as much arms as possible so that Ukrainian territory can be liberated as quickly as possible.
0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:51 - Aug 3 with 771 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:08 - Aug 3 by JakeITFC

But there is a point to be made that just supplying arms does lead to a prolonged conflict, right? And that other avenues, even if they seem to be unlikely, are preferable to extending a war?

I think the original point that this has been described of a process of how is a war going to be won as opposed to how is peace going to be found is basically the underlying crux of the matter - of course removing arms from the Ukrainian forces now would be a disaster but I really don’t think that is the point here (and it is a more general point I am making than the specifics of this conflict).


“that other avenues, even if they seem to be unlikely, are preferable to extending a war? ”

1) Surely that is for the Ukrainians to decide, not a clueless, anti-west MP who is currently suspended from his Party?

2) as has been previously noted to you, the fate of the Ukrainians in any peace deal could be even worse than continuing the war (hence why there has been no peace deal, and the war continues)
0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:56 - Aug 3 with 747 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 14:32 - Aug 3 by blueasfook

Ignorance is no excuse as they say...


I think when you're 86 it's a bit of an excuse.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:05 - Aug 3 with 710 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 14:53 - Aug 3 by gordon

It's like talking to a brick wall because the situation is a brick wall.

You or Corbyn haven't actually got any coherent alternative strategy that you can share, because one doesn't exist.

There isn't anyone reputable suggesting or advocating anything else, other than that it is a choice between supplying weapons to Ukraine, or allowing Ukraine to be occupied.


No, the point is we won't just cut off supplies while there is no other alternative. There may be, as you suggest, no alternative. In which case supplies will continue. Corbyn hasn't said cut off supplies no matter what and let them face the consequences. That's my point. If he says "Let's allow Ukraine to be occupied" then I will hold my hands up and say he's utterly wrong. But he hasn't.

You and I aren't experts in peace negotiation, so we have no idea really if anything else can be done. I have said I think Corbyn's deluded and that will remain my view until he or someone else puts forward a solution other than war.

The idea that we're simply stuck with piling weapons in and they slug it out for decades, potentially, is both sad and terrifying.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:07 - Aug 3 with 700 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:41 - Aug 3 by gordon

If Russia had invaded the UK, would you consider it to be reasonable for Ukraine to decide that people in Suffolk ought to live under Russian occupation and be part of Russia, to avoid a prolonged conflict?

If not, then we need to supply as much arms as possible so that Ukrainian territory can be liberated as quickly as possible.


No-one has said anyone ought to live under Russian occupation. You are just making straw men.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:09 - Aug 3 with 695 viewsGlasgowBlue

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 14:04 - Aug 3 by Blueschev

Your evidence is quite heavily reliant on taking at face value the unsubstantiated account of a holocaust denier.


And photographs of Corbyn attending a DYR conference five years after Eisen outed himself as a Holocaust denier, years after Corbyn had said he had cut ties with them and years and DYR had been disaffiliated by the Palestinian Solitary Group of whom Corbyn was a patron for being too antisemitic.

Oh and being pulled up by the HOC select committee for conveniently forgetting that he met members of Deir Yassin Remembered at Parliament in 2014.


Other than that yeah. Nothing.

Why do the cult followers bend over backwards to defend this grubby little man?
[Post edited 3 Aug 2022 16:29]

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

0
Login to get fewer ads

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:09 - Aug 3 with 689 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:51 - Aug 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna

“that other avenues, even if they seem to be unlikely, are preferable to extending a war? ”

1) Surely that is for the Ukrainians to decide, not a clueless, anti-west MP who is currently suspended from his Party?

2) as has been previously noted to you, the fate of the Ukrainians in any peace deal could be even worse than continuing the war (hence why there has been no peace deal, and the war continues)


1). He's not deciding, he's offering an opinion.

2). No-one would broker a deal that leaves Ukraine in a worse position than continuing the war.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:10 - Aug 3 with 688 viewsgordon

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:07 - Aug 3 by The_Flashing_Smile

No-one has said anyone ought to live under Russian occupation. You are just making straw men.


So you think there's a solution which involves Russia agreeing to leave Ukrainian territory, which doesn't involve military force?
1
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:14 - Aug 3 with 660 viewsJakeITFC

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:10 - Aug 3 by gordon

So you think there's a solution which involves Russia agreeing to leave Ukrainian territory, which doesn't involve military force?


I think from my perspective it’s more a hope that we stop getting into these situations in the first place, naive or otherwise.

Nothing ever changes if conflict is an expected outcome.
1
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 3 with 650 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:10 - Aug 3 by gordon

So you think there's a solution which involves Russia agreeing to leave Ukrainian territory, which doesn't involve military force?


As I said, neither of us are experts in this so what's the point of speculating on a football messageboard? Taking out Putin could possibly see this happening - if his successor sees the folly, expense and lives wasted as pointless. I don't know.

Do you think sending weapons and watching for decades until one (probably Ukraine) is obliterated, is the answer?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:26 - Aug 3 with 622 viewsitfcjoe

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 3 by The_Flashing_Smile

As I said, neither of us are experts in this so what's the point of speculating on a football messageboard? Taking out Putin could possibly see this happening - if his successor sees the folly, expense and lives wasted as pointless. I don't know.

Do you think sending weapons and watching for decades until one (probably Ukraine) is obliterated, is the answer?


Do you think someone who doesn't want the war full stop and sees stopping supplying Ukraine with weapons as a possible solution is going to countenance assassinating the Russian leader as a solution?

Poll: Club vs country? What would you choose
Blog: What is Going on With the Academy at Ipswich Town?

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:27 - Aug 3 with 622 viewsgordon

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:14 - Aug 3 by JakeITFC

I think from my perspective it’s more a hope that we stop getting into these situations in the first place, naive or otherwise.

Nothing ever changes if conflict is an expected outcome.


So you'd have been in favour of supplying HIMARS and air defense systems and fighter jets to Ukraine before the invasion, as a deterrence?
0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:28 - Aug 3 with 618 viewsLord_Lucan

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 14:13 - Aug 3 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior

I never really clicked that downvote thing because well obviously I don’t care but TWTD popularity too much on a strong left leaning forum. However, I was curious when I see a lot of -1 and -2 today. Two posters seem to be quite active using it on this thread. Surely they must realize it’s a badge of honor with their views on this lunatic!


Darth and Dolly's Corbyn appreciation is widely known but at least they have each other and double the known members of my Boris appreciation society.

I'm thinking of asking them to join a BOJEM pact

Prepare for government!

“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.” Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Poll: How will you be celebrating Prince Phils life today

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:28 - Aug 3 with 617 viewsgordon

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 3 by The_Flashing_Smile

As I said, neither of us are experts in this so what's the point of speculating on a football messageboard? Taking out Putin could possibly see this happening - if his successor sees the folly, expense and lives wasted as pointless. I don't know.

Do you think sending weapons and watching for decades until one (probably Ukraine) is obliterated, is the answer?


You think that Corbyn thinks we should assassinate Vladimir Putin?

There's no way Russia can afford to continue the invasion for very long, obviously difficult to know but they'd be unlikely to be able to keep going over the winter into next year with a full-on invasion - so any kind of ceasefire agreement in the next few months would benefit Russia, because it would formalise the territory they've taken so far, and allow them to restock and replenish etc.
[Post edited 3 Aug 2022 16:37]
-1
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:33 - Aug 3 with 593 viewsJakeITFC

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:27 - Aug 3 by gordon

So you'd have been in favour of supplying HIMARS and air defense systems and fighter jets to Ukraine before the invasion, as a deterrence?


Well this is exactly it isn’t it - we spend billions on defence, form international military coalitions, have a nuclear deterrent and yet the only ever answer is more, more, more. And even in this scenario countries invade others, occupations happen and national security isn’t guaranteed.

The system is broken but there isn’t much pause for thought as to how it might become better, instead just racing to the bottom. (Again, this is a more general point than saying the people of Ukraine should either surrender or be left to be picked off).
1
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:33 - Aug 3 with 592 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:09 - Aug 3 by The_Flashing_Smile

1). He's not deciding, he's offering an opinion.

2). No-one would broker a deal that leaves Ukraine in a worse position than continuing the war.


“ No-one would broker a deal that leaves Ukraine in a worse position than continuing the war.”

That’s the only realistic outcome unless you live on another planet.
0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:39 - Aug 3 with 585 viewsgordon

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:33 - Aug 3 by JakeITFC

Well this is exactly it isn’t it - we spend billions on defence, form international military coalitions, have a nuclear deterrent and yet the only ever answer is more, more, more. And even in this scenario countries invade others, occupations happen and national security isn’t guaranteed.

The system is broken but there isn’t much pause for thought as to how it might become better, instead just racing to the bottom. (Again, this is a more general point than saying the people of Ukraine should either surrender or be left to be picked off).


It just seems like the relevant information isn't really sinking in.

We had those things, but Ukraine didn't. That's why Russia was able to invade Ukraine.
2
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:46 - Aug 3 with 566 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:39 - Aug 3 by gordon

It just seems like the relevant information isn't really sinking in.

We had those things, but Ukraine didn't. That's why Russia was able to invade Ukraine.


Those that hate NATO are tying themselves up in knots because they can’t square that fact that it has been a successful deterrent to Russian aggression:

“That’s a fairly incorrect take in itself. In fact the reason Ukraine WAS invaded is exactly because they aren’t armed to the teeth, or have a nuclear deterrent.

Putin has been fairly open in saying that the Baltic states should be part of Russia. Had they not been part of nuclear armed NATO it’s very likely he’d already have made a move on them. See also Sweden and Finland’s recent decisions to join”
1
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:48 - Aug 3 with 564 viewsgordon

On a slightly different topic, you could roast a fair few marshmallows on that

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:57 - Aug 3 with 546 viewsnodge_blue

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 13:12 - Aug 3 by The_Flashing_Smile

If you have DK on ignore there's no point, I'm not obliged to answer any questions you demand I answer, and even if I could be bothered it will just be the usual nonsense of you tenuously linking things and me saying that doesn't mean Corbyn supports those views.

Now, I'll ask again, if you have some evidence that would stand up in a court of law, let's hear it rather than these same old endlessly repeated tenuous links.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43523445

Poll: best attacking central midfielder?

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:20 - Aug 3 with 481 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:26 - Aug 3 by itfcjoe

Do you think someone who doesn't want the war full stop and sees stopping supplying Ukraine with weapons as a possible solution is going to countenance assassinating the Russian leader as a solution?


No, as I said earlier I don't think that's what he's thinking, that was just my own (with very limited knowledge on what's best) idea. It could be a massively bad move. It was just an example of something other than continuously piling weapons in.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:22 - Aug 3 with 472 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:28 - Aug 3 by gordon

You think that Corbyn thinks we should assassinate Vladimir Putin?

There's no way Russia can afford to continue the invasion for very long, obviously difficult to know but they'd be unlikely to be able to keep going over the winter into next year with a full-on invasion - so any kind of ceasefire agreement in the next few months would benefit Russia, because it would formalise the territory they've taken so far, and allow them to restock and replenish etc.
[Post edited 3 Aug 2022 16:37]


No, as I just said to Joe, it was one of my examples from earlier. I have no idea what Corbyn's thinking.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:24 - Aug 3 with 464 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:33 - Aug 3 by JakeITFC

Well this is exactly it isn’t it - we spend billions on defence, form international military coalitions, have a nuclear deterrent and yet the only ever answer is more, more, more. And even in this scenario countries invade others, occupations happen and national security isn’t guaranteed.

The system is broken but there isn’t much pause for thought as to how it might become better, instead just racing to the bottom. (Again, this is a more general point than saying the people of Ukraine should either surrender or be left to be picked off).


Indeed. People (and I think it's what Corbyn's trying to say) can think this without wanting Ukraine to surrender or be abandoned.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© TWTD 1995-2024