| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:18 - Aug 4 with 885 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:12 - Aug 4 by Darth_Koont |
Corbyn really brings these weird fantasists/attack dogs out of the woodwork.
Is the radical centre the most screwed up and confused area of British politics? At first, I thought they were sleepwalkers that just lash out when anyone tries to wake them up. But dealing with this crew over the years, they rarely know what they're talking about, they'll push any narrative (or just make stuff up) like the worst GB News pundit and most importantly you'll only ever hear non-solutions from them.
They've helped turn politics to sh!t as a result. We can't just blame the Mail, Express, Farage or Johnson for that when these clowns are the alternative.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/centrism-working-class-labour-corbyn-starme |
"most importantly you'll only ever hear non-solutions from them."
In the context of this thread, that's hilarious - keep em' coming. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:20 - Aug 4 with 870 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:12 - Aug 4 by Darth_Koont |
Fantasist. |
Which part of that was untrue? |  | | |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:29 - Aug 4 with 834 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:04 - Aug 4 by gordon |
Do you have any response to this point:
The point is that at a critical time in the Russian invasion when western weapons are having a significant impact and potentially turning the tide of the war & threatening Russian gains in the south, a group of British leftists are publicly stating that we should stop providing weapons to Ukraine because they can't defeat the invasion, and a ceasefire should be discussed, which they know in practice means permanent occupation of the areas Russia has gained.
In doing so, they're misrepresenting the views of Ukrainians and the situation in Ukraine, in a way which is to the benefit of an imperialist, fascist force which is murdering and raping civilians - while doing so under a banner of 'pacifism'. |
It's an interpretation, based on your prejudices. I'm just looking at the facts of what Corbyn's said. It's always the same. Never anything damning in what he actually said, it's always on the inference of what he means, or what someone else said on the same stage/publication/near him.
I'm not going to persuade anyone here so I'll call it a day. You can all carry on thinking what you think, I'll just go on the facts of what was actually said. I'm biased, your biased. People should just read his actual words and make their own minds up.
You said earlier in the thread that this life long pacifist supports genocide in Ukraine. I've got nowhere to go if you think that's remotely plausible. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:33 - Aug 4 with 807 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:05 - Aug 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Some of you guys had a meltdown that Starmer stood in front of the flag of the country he serves.
Yet Corbyn giving interviews to a racist media platform, that backs genocidal dictators and pushes anti Semitic conspiracy theories and you think that’s all fine.
The hypocrisy is hilarious. Delusional. |
No hypocrisy from me, I've never said anything about Starmer stood in front of a flag.
I don't just think it's fine - it's absolutely necessary. Let's not forget what he actually said - Russia's military operation in Ukraine is "fundamentally wrong." | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:35 - Aug 4 with 774 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:04 - Aug 4 by unbelievablue |
To be candid, "Not going to speculate on Corbyn's own motives" is a strange position to hold (by yourself and others) who are happy to be very clear on your opinions on JC at other times. With these types of accusations I feel like coming right out and saying it, then giving your evidence, is best.
In a kind of perverse way I have more respect for someone who's willing to come right out and say that JC wants Russia to win this war because Zelensky is Jewish and it suits his warped ideals (an opinion Solomon has failed to confirm as of yet when I asked him to explicitly).
Otherwise it's all beating around the bush. |
These shadowy insinuations and additional accusations always seem to come out when the usual suspects start to run on fumes. Although they're never that far away from the surface TBH. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:35 - Aug 4 with 796 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:06 - Aug 4 by giant_stow |
What other possibility is there? If you can't answer that, you're being deeply dishonest. |
We've been here earlier in the thread. I've offered other possibilities, but sorry, I don't actually know what Corbyn's thinking. What's "dishonest" is the wording of your OP, not my inability to read minds. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:36 - Aug 4 with 793 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:06 - Aug 4 by gordon |
Corbyn obviously doesn't want the Russian invasion to be defeated (and nor do the rest of them - Milne etc) - I wouldn't want to speculate on why, though, could be all sorts of reasons, and probably a muddle of all sorts of things. |
No evidence for that. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:38 - Aug 4 with 762 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:20 - Aug 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Which part of that was untrue? |
The words part.
It's just another silly story you tell yourself. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:39 - Aug 4 with 773 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:20 - Aug 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Which part of that was untrue? |
I've never said anything about Starmer stood in front of a flag. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:46 - Aug 4 with 743 views | blueasfook |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:05 - Aug 4 by noggin |
How is he a danger to anything or anyone? He's no longer leader of the opposition and holds no sway in British politics. |
And that is a very good thing. I am sure MI5 have a very thick file built up on him over the years due to his dubious associations. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:49 - Aug 4 with 727 views | noggin |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:46 - Aug 4 by blueasfook |
And that is a very good thing. I am sure MI5 have a very thick file built up on him over the years due to his dubious associations. |
Yet in all those years they have never managed to pin anything on him. He must be good. Maybe MI5 should consider employing him. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:50 - Aug 4 with 704 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:46 - Aug 4 by blueasfook |
And that is a very good thing. I am sure MI5 have a very thick file built up on him over the years due to his dubious associations. |
Dubious associations according to who? And what is Corbyn's reason or motive for these associations? Give me an example. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:56 - Aug 4 with 696 views | CrayonKing |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:12 - Aug 4 by Darth_Koont |
Corbyn really brings these weird fantasists/attack dogs out of the woodwork.
Is the radical centre the most screwed up and confused area of British politics? At first, I thought they were sleepwalkers that just lash out when anyone tries to wake them up. But dealing with this crew over the years, they rarely know what they're talking about, they'll push any narrative (or just make stuff up) like the worst GB News pundit and most importantly you'll only ever hear non-solutions from them.
They've helped turn politics to sh!t as a result. We can't just blame the Mail, Express, Farage or Johnson for that when these clowns are the alternative.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/centrism-working-class-labour-corbyn-starme |
"Is the radical centre the most screwed up and confused area of British politics?"
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but...
leaving aside the oxymoron of 'radical centre', in the last couple of weeks I've seen you claim Starmer is as right-wing as BoJo and Chico claim we've had left-wing governments for the last 20 years. I'd say there's plenty of confusion to go around! |  | | |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:57 - Aug 4 with 676 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:49 - Aug 4 by noggin |
Yet in all those years they have never managed to pin anything on him. He must be good. Maybe MI5 should consider employing him. |
Must be more dangerous than we think to stay ahead of MI5 and the Labour Party disciplinary committee.
How does a spy/traitor/antisemite/communist like him survive against the sheer weight and startling accuracy of GB's accusations?  | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:59 - Aug 4 with 652 views | itfcjoe |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 09:58 - Aug 4 by noggin |
Even now, he frightens the establishment and those gullible to right wing media persuasion. |
He certainly doesn't frighten the Russian establishment, spent too long listening to Seamus Milne |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:59 - Aug 4 with 648 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:56 - Aug 4 by CrayonKing |
"Is the radical centre the most screwed up and confused area of British politics?"
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but...
leaving aside the oxymoron of 'radical centre', in the last couple of weeks I've seen you claim Starmer is as right-wing as BoJo and Chico claim we've had left-wing governments for the last 20 years. I'd say there's plenty of confusion to go around! |
Well, Chico is as loony about the left as anyone.
Yeah, I think Starmer and BoJo are both centre-right based on their records as leaders. I'd like to see your workings that suggest a gap. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:59 - Aug 4 with 668 views | blueasfook |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:50 - Aug 4 by Darth_Koont |
Dubious associations according to who? And what is Corbyn's reason or motive for these associations? Give me an example. |
His support of terrorist organisations is well documented. Hamas and Hezbollah are "friends" for example. A shocking statement that he even tried to worm out of in a TV interview.
Oh and then there is his unequivocal support for the IRA over the years...
"In an article for Foreign Policy, terrorism analyst Robin Simcox argues that Corbyn’s “consistent covering for the IRA” demonstrates that he is “perfectly relaxed about nonstate actors’ use of violence as long as it is for a cause - in that case, a united Ireland - with which he agrees”.
And according to The Daily Telegraph, Corbyn was a “regular face at republican protest events and attended events to honour dead terrorists”, prompting MI5 to open a file on the Labour leader amid concerns over his links to the IRA."
As for his motives? Who knows? I don't understand why he would support organisations that use violence and kill innocent people to achieve their political aims. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:06 - Aug 4 with 614 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:59 - Aug 4 by blueasfook |
His support of terrorist organisations is well documented. Hamas and Hezbollah are "friends" for example. A shocking statement that he even tried to worm out of in a TV interview.
Oh and then there is his unequivocal support for the IRA over the years...
"In an article for Foreign Policy, terrorism analyst Robin Simcox argues that Corbyn’s “consistent covering for the IRA” demonstrates that he is “perfectly relaxed about nonstate actors’ use of violence as long as it is for a cause - in that case, a united Ireland - with which he agrees”.
And according to The Daily Telegraph, Corbyn was a “regular face at republican protest events and attended events to honour dead terrorists”, prompting MI5 to open a file on the Labour leader amid concerns over his links to the IRA."
As for his motives? Who knows? I don't understand why he would support organisations that use violence and kill innocent people to achieve their political aims. |
So he actually supports terrorism or the underlying struggles of Palestinian liberation and Irish republicanism/self-determination?
Bearing in mind, Hamas and IRA/Sinn Fein are/were the de facto leaders of those fights. His association was much more about giving them a political voice and trying to help towards peace not cheering on violence. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:10 - Aug 4 with 602 views | unbelievablue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:06 - Aug 4 by Darth_Koont |
So he actually supports terrorism or the underlying struggles of Palestinian liberation and Irish republicanism/self-determination?
Bearing in mind, Hamas and IRA/Sinn Fein are/were the de facto leaders of those fights. His association was much more about giving them a political voice and trying to help towards peace not cheering on violence. |
Hmm, difficult one.
I think I support both of those in principle but want nothing to do with the terrorist organisations using violence to achieve those aims. I think sharing platforms with those openly willing to use violence is a line I would be very careful not to cross. He hasn't been careful in that regard. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:15 - Aug 4 with 571 views | blueasfook |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:06 - Aug 4 by Darth_Koont |
So he actually supports terrorism or the underlying struggles of Palestinian liberation and Irish republicanism/self-determination?
Bearing in mind, Hamas and IRA/Sinn Fein are/were the de facto leaders of those fights. His association was much more about giving them a political voice and trying to help towards peace not cheering on violence. |
Nobody says he "cheered on" the violence. But he has outright refused to solely condemn IRA atrocities many times. The best you'll ever get from him is that he condemns the violence on both sides. Choosing his words carefully so as not to upset his Republican pals. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:19 - Aug 4 with 536 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 10:04 - Aug 4 by unbelievablue |
To be candid, "Not going to speculate on Corbyn's own motives" is a strange position to hold (by yourself and others) who are happy to be very clear on your opinions on JC at other times. With these types of accusations I feel like coming right out and saying it, then giving your evidence, is best.
In a kind of perverse way I have more respect for someone who's willing to come right out and say that JC wants Russia to win this war because Zelensky is Jewish and it suits his warped ideals (an opinion Solomon has failed to confirm as of yet when I asked him to explicitly).
Otherwise it's all beating around the bush. |
I'm clear on the stuff I have accused JC of at other times because I have always backed it up with evidence (whether others dismiss the evidence or not is a different matter).
With regards to what Solomon has posted, I can't see into JC's mind so I honestly don't know. So I won't speculate.
All I can offer is the type of examples we have see from his fellow travellers like Chris Williamson or Seamus Milne. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:20 - Aug 4 with 529 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:10 - Aug 4 by unbelievablue |
Hmm, difficult one.
I think I support both of those in principle but want nothing to do with the terrorist organisations using violence to achieve those aims. I think sharing platforms with those openly willing to use violence is a line I would be very careful not to cross. He hasn't been careful in that regard. |
I think history often shows that people fighting for justice are terrorists until they aren't.
The ANC, IRA, PLO etc were all terrorists with lots of pontificating and posturing going on about never letting them win or negotiating with them. Until we started addressing the underlying injustice where of course we finally stopped ignoring they had a legitimate point.
Letting them air their legitimate point and bringing it into the public debate is probably the most effective anti-terrorism. Certainly if we see how that shift in mindset has dramatically reduced the violence and the prospects of renewed conflict in our own UK. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:21 - Aug 4 with 532 views | marchy |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:15 - Aug 4 by blueasfook |
Nobody says he "cheered on" the violence. But he has outright refused to solely condemn IRA atrocities many times. The best you'll ever get from him is that he condemns the violence on both sides. Choosing his words carefully so as not to upset his Republican pals. |
Let's make no mistake, it would be lovely if it could be the sort of world Jeremy Corbyn seems to think it is, in which everyone could be friends and everything could be resolved by joining hands and singing kumbaya. But it's a factional world. There are ideologies that collide head-on, and sadly, in some cases there are just bad, indefensible people, and sometimes a line needs to be drawn. I'm certain he is naïve rather than malevolent, but he seems completely oblivious to how dangerous naïveté can be.
Edit: Dolly, you can keep hammering away at the downvotes mate, but as of page 1 of this thread you've admitted he's deluded, and if he's deluded he's also naïve. [Post edited 4 Aug 2022 11:29]
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:21 - Aug 4 with 521 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:19 - Aug 4 by GlasgowBlue |
I'm clear on the stuff I have accused JC of at other times because I have always backed it up with evidence (whether others dismiss the evidence or not is a different matter).
With regards to what Solomon has posted, I can't see into JC's mind so I honestly don't know. So I won't speculate.
All I can offer is the type of examples we have see from his fellow travellers like Chris Williamson or Seamus Milne. |
Pathetic smeary stuff as per usual. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:31 - Aug 4 with 464 views | unbelievablue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 11:20 - Aug 4 by Darth_Koont |
I think history often shows that people fighting for justice are terrorists until they aren't.
The ANC, IRA, PLO etc were all terrorists with lots of pontificating and posturing going on about never letting them win or negotiating with them. Until we started addressing the underlying injustice where of course we finally stopped ignoring they had a legitimate point.
Letting them air their legitimate point and bringing it into the public debate is probably the most effective anti-terrorism. Certainly if we see how that shift in mindset has dramatically reduced the violence and the prospects of renewed conflict in our own UK. |
I know what you're trying to say on that first point but I don't really think that works. Semantics, maybe, but a militant organisation using violence to achieve their aims is what it is: militant, and violent. Denounce their tactics. Plenty of people seem unwilling to do that just because they support the underlying cause. | |
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