| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:09 - Aug 2 with 925 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:05 - Aug 2 by unbelievablue |
I'm not sure how useful these types of comparisons are, to be honest. |
Because if you don’t learn from history, you will make all the same mistakes again. |  | |  |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:10 - Aug 2 with 923 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:58 - Aug 2 by JakeITFC |
Surely finding a peaceful resolution is better than prolonging a war? |
The only peaceful solution would be for Mad Vlad to sling his hook.
How would you like it Jakey if your next door neighbour broke into your house, killed your dad, destroyed much of the house and insisted on taking the lot.
What would you say to the council if they suggested that maybe the neighbour keeps half of it and then everyone can move on?
I'd be asking Reynolds Road for a bit of support [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 16:11]
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:12 - Aug 2 with 895 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:04 - Aug 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't know the answer, and I also stated he's a bit deluded. The shame on you is your blatant lying ("I'm being a bit of tinker") about what Corbyn actually said. |
‘Shameful lying’ is bollox mr.
I admitted to being a tinker / partisan in my framing, but not to being disingenuous or lying. What did I lie about? I’m just being blunt, knowing that it will annoy some. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:12 - Aug 2 with 895 views | Kievthegreat |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:05 - Aug 2 by unbelievablue |
I'm not sure how useful these types of comparisons are, to be honest. |
The original statement was "Surely finding a peaceful resolution is better than prolonging a war?", it is of course nonsense because it is possible that the outcome of that "peaceful resolution" can be worse than the war itself.
The example is extreme, but so is naively believing that peace at any cost is preferable. The cost of peace in Ukraine at best will be the brutal dismemberment of Ukraine, at worst will be conquest and the brutality we've seen in places like Bucha. |  | | |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:12 - Aug 2 with 894 views | DanTheMan |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:05 - Aug 2 by unbelievablue |
I'm not sure how useful these types of comparisons are, to be honest. |
Honestly in this case, it's actually not too far off. A war of aggression because "our people live there". Obviously there was more build up for WW2 where they took quite a few places with little pushback. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:13 - Aug 2 with 887 views | unbelievablue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:09 - Aug 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Because if you don’t learn from history, you will make all the same mistakes again. |
Yeah, I know. This is very much in my wheelhouse.
But it's kind of a facile comparison. Putin isn't Hitler, Hitler wasn't Napoleon, Napoleon wasn't Genghis Khan. Each instance is different, the world changes, and so does how we look to deal with aggressors in the Nuclear age. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:13 - Aug 2 with 882 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:05 - Aug 2 by unbelievablue |
I'm not sure how useful these types of comparisons are, to be honest. |
I would say they're completely relevant. How do you think the people in the Baltics or Poland feel right now about all this? | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:14 - Aug 2 with 872 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:10 - Aug 2 by Lord_Lucan |
The only peaceful solution would be for Mad Vlad to sling his hook.
How would you like it Jakey if your next door neighbour broke into your house, killed your dad, destroyed much of the house and insisted on taking the lot.
What would you say to the council if they suggested that maybe the neighbour keeps half of it and then everyone can move on?
I'd be asking Reynolds Road for a bit of support [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 16:11]
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Where has Corbyn suggested Russia keep half of Ukraine? |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:14 - Aug 2 with 872 views | unbelievablue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:12 - Aug 2 by DanTheMan |
Honestly in this case, it's actually not too far off. A war of aggression because "our people live there". Obviously there was more build up for WW2 where they took quite a few places with little pushback. |
There are far, far more differences than parallels in my book. The world is a very different place and so, justifiably, is the response to the aggressor. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:15 - Aug 2 with 870 views | blueasfook |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:12 - Aug 2 by giant_stow |
‘Shameful lying’ is bollox mr.
I admitted to being a tinker / partisan in my framing, but not to being disingenuous or lying. What did I lie about? I’m just being blunt, knowing that it will annoy some. |
if there's a lost cause to support, you can guarantee Dolly will be there. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 2 with 859 views | DanTheMan |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:14 - Aug 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Where has Corbyn suggested Russia keep half of Ukraine? |
I think what people are saying is that it is extraordinarily unlikely Russia are going to want to just leave Ukraine without any gains, as nice as that would be. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 2 with 857 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:09 - Aug 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's not as black and white as you're making it. |
You could answer the question instead of swerving.
What will happen if we stop "pouring weapons" to Ukraine? |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 2 with 848 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:12 - Aug 2 by giant_stow |
‘Shameful lying’ is bollox mr.
I admitted to being a tinker / partisan in my framing, but not to being disingenuous or lying. What did I lie about? I’m just being blunt, knowing that it will annoy some. |
As I've already said - your OP states he says "the west should abandon Ukraine and let Russia win their war." He's said neither of these things. So in what way are they not lies?
You're not "just being blunt" you are totally fabricating what he said. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:19 - Aug 2 with 832 views | unbelievablue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 2 by GlasgowBlue |
You could answer the question instead of swerving.
What will happen if we stop "pouring weapons" to Ukraine? |
Russia would run amok. But again, surely you don't believe that's what JC is calling for? | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:22 - Aug 2 with 802 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 2 by DanTheMan |
I think what people are saying is that it is extraordinarily unlikely Russia are going to want to just leave Ukraine without any gains, as nice as that would be. |
I don't know what Corbyn's thinking, but there are other options than just 'letting Russia have half'. For example, if the West poured a load of resources into assassinating Putin rather than just supplying Ukraine with weapons ad infinitum, that would surely end the war. Just the first thought off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:23 - Aug 2 with 794 views | J2BLUE |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:22 - Aug 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't know what Corbyn's thinking, but there are other options than just 'letting Russia have half'. For example, if the West poured a load of resources into assassinating Putin rather than just supplying Ukraine with weapons ad infinitum, that would surely end the war. Just the first thought off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. |
Have you seen images of Putin's meetings? He is paranoid and ultra cautious. Good luck getting anywhere near him. Good luck finding someone even willing to do it if you could get near him. |  |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:26 - Aug 2 with 782 views | blueasfook |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:22 - Aug 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't know what Corbyn's thinking, but there are other options than just 'letting Russia have half'. For example, if the West poured a load of resources into assassinating Putin rather than just supplying Ukraine with weapons ad infinitum, that would surely end the war. Just the first thought off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. |
Maybe we should send James Bond over to do it?
He could take Winnie the Pooh as back up. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:26 - Aug 2 with 778 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:16 - Aug 2 by GlasgowBlue |
You could answer the question instead of swerving.
What will happen if we stop "pouring weapons" to Ukraine? |
I'm not swerving anything - I don't know what Corbyn's thinking and what other solutions there are. Clearly JUST stopping sending weapons would allow Russia to waltz in, but he obviously isn't advocating that. I know you're intelligent enough to realise advocating finding peaceful solutions doesn't mean just giving up, so you're just being disingenuous.
I suspect you've smelt blood in a Corbyn pile-on and dived in without reading what he actually said. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:27 - Aug 2 with 770 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:14 - Aug 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Where has Corbyn suggested Russia keep half of Ukraine? |
Well what kind of peaceful solution would you offer Vlad
A box of Haribos?
I sometimes wonder if some people live in a parallel universe. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:27 - Aug 2 with 767 views | DanTheMan |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:22 - Aug 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't know what Corbyn's thinking, but there are other options than just 'letting Russia have half'. For example, if the West poured a load of resources into assassinating Putin rather than just supplying Ukraine with weapons ad infinitum, that would surely end the war. Just the first thought off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. |
That supposes that whoever takes over would not be equally onboard, as well as that directly supporting an assassination of a world leader would not cause an either bigger issue.
I get your point, as well as JCs, but I can't see a situation where Russia peace would not involve Ukraine losing part of its country. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:28 - Aug 2 with 761 views | J2BLUE |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:26 - Aug 2 by blueasfook |
Maybe we should send James Bond over to do it?
He could take Winnie the Pooh as back up. |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:30 - Aug 2 with 742 views | gordon |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:58 - Aug 2 by unbelievablue |
GB - do you sincerely think that's what JC is suggesting? Stop arming them tomorrow so that Russia can waltz into Kyiv?
Reading what he said it seems pretty obvious to me that, as DanTheMan said, JC is simply arguing the pacifist position that would look to more diplomatic means to end the conflict and not prolong it.
Nothing vile about that, just, potentially, rather naive. |
Russia, Putin and various state mouthpieces have stated clearly, on multiple occasions, that their intention is to destroy Ukraine, erase Ukrainian identity, that they don't accept that Ukraine has the right to exist.
Jeremy Corbyn will know that - and he will be well aware that there is no possible diplomatic solution, given that - so if he says that we shouldn't provide arms to Ukraine, he's defacto supporting genocide in Ukraine. |  | | |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:30 - Aug 2 with 722 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:23 - Aug 2 by J2BLUE |
Have you seen images of Putin's meetings? He is paranoid and ultra cautious. Good luck getting anywhere near him. Good luck finding someone even willing to do it if you could get near him. |
Like I say, I don't know the answers, that was just one off the top of my head. I don't know what MI5 or the FBI are capable of (although they have just taken out the head of the Taliban).
But clearly Corbyn isn't suggesting Ukraine just give up. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:32 - Aug 2 with 707 views | unbelievablue |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:30 - Aug 2 by gordon |
Russia, Putin and various state mouthpieces have stated clearly, on multiple occasions, that their intention is to destroy Ukraine, erase Ukrainian identity, that they don't accept that Ukraine has the right to exist.
Jeremy Corbyn will know that - and he will be well aware that there is no possible diplomatic solution, given that - so if he says that we shouldn't provide arms to Ukraine, he's defacto supporting genocide in Ukraine. |
Sometimes I wonder if I'm really, really thick, and can't see what's obvious right in front of my eyes.
To get to de facto support of genocide in Ukraine from Corbyn's comments is...something. | |
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| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:33 - Aug 2 with 690 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 16:27 - Aug 2 by Lord_Lucan |
Well what kind of peaceful solution would you offer Vlad
A box of Haribos?
I sometimes wonder if some people live in a parallel universe. |
I'm not an expert on peace negotiations, but I haven't seen anywhere (other than your post) where "give Russia half" is one of them.
Anyway, as I've already said, I think Corbyn's deluded here. I'm just correcting what Ulla said he said. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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