Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:37 - Aug 2 with 770 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:33 - Aug 2 by giant_stow | What a silly thing to say. They're amongst the worst affected: often conscripts, often only there because they're poor and apparently never told the truth by their seniors. But does any of that mean Ukraine shouldn't try and fight back?!! [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 17:33]
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So we both agree with Corbyn that other solutions should be sought? What's silly about that? You've never been to war have you? | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:42 - Aug 2 with 745 views | giant_stow |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:37 - Aug 2 by noggin | So we both agree with Corbyn that other solutions should be sought? What's silly about that? You've never been to war have you? |
They're being sought! Its not working. What would you have the Ukrainians do? No I haven't been to war thank goodness. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:43 - Aug 2 with 742 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:42 - Aug 2 by giant_stow | They're being sought! Its not working. What would you have the Ukrainians do? No I haven't been to war thank goodness. |
Are they though? | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:47 - Aug 2 with 726 views | giant_stow |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:43 - Aug 2 by noggin | Are they though? |
We can only assume so. Can you answer some of my questions now please? What would you have the Ukrainians do? | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:52 - Aug 2 with 703 views | GlasgowBlue |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 15:58 - Aug 2 by unbelievablue | GB - do you sincerely think that's what JC is suggesting? Stop arming them tomorrow so that Russia can waltz into Kyiv? Reading what he said it seems pretty obvious to me that, as DanTheMan said, JC is simply arguing the pacifist position that would look to more diplomatic means to end the conflict and not prolong it. Nothing vile about that, just, potentially, rather naive. |
Of course he doesn’t want Russia to win a war of aggression. And Ullaa May have been a little unhelpful with his added comment. The link was damning enough. That isn’t really the point though. Once again, this highlights what a dangerous and useful idiot Corbyn is. And this man came very close to having complete control over the armed forces, the security services and the Home office. He has spent his entire life looking at the world from the viewpoint that the USA, the UK, NATO and it’s allies are the bad guys. When the Salisbury poisonings took place, Corbyn didn’t join in the universal condemnation of Russia. He wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and dismissed the findings of our own security services. Corbyn has never met an enemy of the west that he didn’t like. And as for this nonsense about him being a pacifist. Absolute bollox. Where is his condemnation of violence from Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, Assad etc? At least John McDonnel was more honest about his support for armed violence that suited his agenda. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:03 - Aug 2 with 674 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:47 - Aug 2 by giant_stow | We can only assume so. Can you answer some of my questions now please? What would you have the Ukrainians do? |
Let the Ukrainians fight. What are your thoughts on Russia arming NATOs enemies? | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:04 - Aug 2 with 672 views | Swansea_Blue | A noble aim. Not sure Putin would pack it all in on the promise of peace. Be nice if he would, but this seems an idealistically simple position to me. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:06 - Aug 2 with 661 views | giant_stow |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:03 - Aug 2 by noggin | Let the Ukrainians fight. What are your thoughts on Russia arming NATOs enemies? |
Fight with what? | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:10 - Aug 2 with 648 views | giant_stow |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:52 - Aug 2 by GlasgowBlue | Of course he doesn’t want Russia to win a war of aggression. And Ullaa May have been a little unhelpful with his added comment. The link was damning enough. That isn’t really the point though. Once again, this highlights what a dangerous and useful idiot Corbyn is. And this man came very close to having complete control over the armed forces, the security services and the Home office. He has spent his entire life looking at the world from the viewpoint that the USA, the UK, NATO and it’s allies are the bad guys. When the Salisbury poisonings took place, Corbyn didn’t join in the universal condemnation of Russia. He wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and dismissed the findings of our own security services. Corbyn has never met an enemy of the west that he didn’t like. And as for this nonsense about him being a pacifist. Absolute bollox. Where is his condemnation of violence from Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, Assad etc? At least John McDonnel was more honest about his support for armed violence that suited his agenda. |
Its true that I have been provocative in this thread, but actually, only by pointing out clearly what would happen if Jez got his wish. Uncomfortable stuff. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:15 - Aug 2 with 634 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:03 - Aug 2 by noggin | Let the Ukrainians fight. What are your thoughts on Russia arming NATOs enemies? |
Strawman. The UK and US began arming Ukraine after the Russian annexation of Crimea. NATO began arming them in material amounts after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You are wrongly implying that Russia acted to protect itself due NATO arming a bordering country. That is just a Putin apologist narrative. | | | |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:17 - Aug 2 with 624 views | JakeITFC |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:04 - Aug 2 by Swansea_Blue | A noble aim. Not sure Putin would pack it all in on the promise of peace. Be nice if he would, but this seems an idealistically simple position to me. |
If we don't have ideals then we just keep doing the same things (which it has to be said don't seem to be particularly effective on either foreign or domestic policy right now). | | | |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:24 - Aug 2 with 607 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:15 - Aug 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna | Strawman. The UK and US began arming Ukraine after the Russian annexation of Crimea. NATO began arming them in material amounts after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You are wrongly implying that Russia acted to protect itself due NATO arming a bordering country. That is just a Putin apologist narrative. |
I haven't implied that at all. We do know that proxy wars are fought though and I was wondering whether you thought it was equally acceptable when the tables are turned. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:24 - Aug 2 with 606 views | giant_stow |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:17 - Aug 2 by JakeITFC | If we don't have ideals then we just keep doing the same things (which it has to be said don't seem to be particularly effective on either foreign or domestic policy right now). |
What would a more effective policy look like right now, in regards to Ukraine being invaded? And who would that policy benefit? | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:24 - Aug 2 with 600 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:24 - Aug 2 by noggin | I haven't implied that at all. We do know that proxy wars are fought though and I was wondering whether you thought it was equally acceptable when the tables are turned. |
NATO aren’t invading anybody… | | | |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:26 - Aug 2 with 597 views | Swansea_Blue |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 17:52 - Aug 2 by GlasgowBlue | Of course he doesn’t want Russia to win a war of aggression. And Ullaa May have been a little unhelpful with his added comment. The link was damning enough. That isn’t really the point though. Once again, this highlights what a dangerous and useful idiot Corbyn is. And this man came very close to having complete control over the armed forces, the security services and the Home office. He has spent his entire life looking at the world from the viewpoint that the USA, the UK, NATO and it’s allies are the bad guys. When the Salisbury poisonings took place, Corbyn didn’t join in the universal condemnation of Russia. He wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and dismissed the findings of our own security services. Corbyn has never met an enemy of the west that he didn’t like. And as for this nonsense about him being a pacifist. Absolute bollox. Where is his condemnation of violence from Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, Assad etc? At least John McDonnel was more honest about his support for armed violence that suited his agenda. |
“Corbyn has never met an enemy of the west that he didn’t like”. I don’t think that’s true. He’s not condemning anyone here, equally he’s not condoning Russia in this case. I’ve seen today this has all been spun into him being pro the Russian action. That’s not true. He wants an end to it. I just think he’s idealistically naive (and yes that makes him a useful idiot). He’s not maliciously anti west or pro our enemies. Just uselessly sitting on the fence. Imo of course. He seems to treat everyone the same with a gullibility that can easily be spun (e.g. Salisbury - didn’t jump to conclusions or take a side, etc., even though it was pretty obvious). My biggest fear about him becoming the PM would have been whether he’d have taken a position on anything or been able to make tough calls. He’d have had enough people around him not to be a security risk (and besides, there’s reasonable evidence to suggest Johnson is the far bigger security risk (to the state’s and the population’s interests). | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:27 - Aug 2 with 596 views | giant_stow |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:24 - Aug 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna | NATO aren’t invading anybody… |
In any case, I believe Russia also arms potential NATO enemies such as China and Iran, probably North Korea (Don;t they all fly Mig whatevers?), so pretty sure its moot point. Norgin, what weapons should the Ukrainians fight with? | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:31 - Aug 2 with 581 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:24 - Aug 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna | NATO aren’t invading anybody… |
But they have in the past. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:32 - Aug 2 with 579 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:27 - Aug 2 by giant_stow | In any case, I believe Russia also arms potential NATO enemies such as China and Iran, probably North Korea (Don;t they all fly Mig whatevers?), so pretty sure its moot point. Norgin, what weapons should the Ukrainians fight with? |
As they also did against NATO with Serbia as they were massacring people. In fact the Soviets even supplied the NAZIs with pilot training and raw materials to fight the British before the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union. | | | |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:34 - Aug 2 with 571 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:31 - Aug 2 by noggin | But they have in the past. |
Such as? | | | |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:37 - Aug 2 with 566 views | JakeITFC |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:24 - Aug 2 by giant_stow | What would a more effective policy look like right now, in regards to Ukraine being invaded? And who would that policy benefit? |
I don't know - but what I do know is that from my perspective the world trade of arms, the spending on defence and the general anti-peace sentiment just makes me uncomfortable (naive as it probably is on my behalf). It's perfectly healthy to hold that opinion and for that to be an ambition for the country and the world. That people are jumping on Corbyn for effectively holding that position today (considering it's been his MO forever) is also fine, but I find the leap from that to 'he's abandoning Ukraine' one made in bad faith. | | | |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:38 - Aug 2 with 567 views | factual_blue | The elephant in the room is that, rather than face the possible nuclear consequences of escalation and NATO's direct involvement, the West probably will at some point abandon the Ukraine if the latter's victory isn't going to happen. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:38 - Aug 2 with 561 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:34 - Aug 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna | Such as? |
Iraq | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:40 - Aug 2 with 552 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:38 - Aug 2 by noggin | Iraq |
The Iraq invasion wasn’t a NATO operation. Besides which what is your point? | | | |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:40 - Aug 2 with 552 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:38 - Aug 2 by factual_blue | The elephant in the room is that, rather than face the possible nuclear consequences of escalation and NATO's direct involvement, the West probably will at some point abandon the Ukraine if the latter's victory isn't going to happen. |
Of course they will. | |
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Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:43 - Aug 2 with 546 views | noggin |
Corbyn says the west should abandon Ukraine on 18:40 - Aug 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna | The Iraq invasion wasn’t a NATO operation. Besides which what is your point? |
I asked what Ullas thoughts would be if/when Russia (other superpowers are available) armed NATO opposition in "conflict " | |
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