| This Archie Battersbee case 13:24 - Aug 3 with 2391 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
As horrible as it is, the doctors say he can't be saved/there's no chance of recovery, and you have to feel they know more or what they're talking about than the family, who say they "believe" he can get better.
A previous High Court ruling heard "every bodily function is now maintained by artificial means", while another heard he had not "regained awareness at any time".
It's hard to take emotion out of it - and obviously I can't possibly put myself in their position - but there comes a point where you have to accept the experts, surely? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:28 - Aug 3 with 1955 views | STYG |
It's impossible to determine.
Heart-breaking.
Everybody outside such a case like that can probably conclude that the suffering is being prolonged to all concerns and, ultimately, that the doctors are right.
However, if that was your loved one how could you ever accept there wasn't even the tiniest chance they'd be wrong. There's always a medical miracle precedent somewhere, even if it's 1 in a billion and none of us could probably ever say, in that situation, we'd listen to logic or facts or anything other than desperately clinging onto a miracle that sadly won't happen.
Just incredibly sad. |  | | |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:37 - Aug 3 with 1921 views | Ely_Blue |
There also comes a point when as well as accepting the medical prognosis that the efforts of the family and their energies would be better spent on making people aware of the dangers of how this tragic accident occurred and preventing others from doing the same |  |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:39 - Aug 3 with 1912 views | J2BLUE |
Accept your son dying or keep hoping for that one in a million chance he starts to get better.
It's an awful situation. I think most people would fight the decision. Not sure logic and rational thinking come into it. |  |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:42 - Aug 3 with 1892 views | Ely_Blue |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:39 - Aug 3 by J2BLUE |
Accept your son dying or keep hoping for that one in a million chance he starts to get better.
It's an awful situation. I think most people would fight the decision. Not sure logic and rational thinking come into it. |
You think it’s anywhere near as high as 1 in a million? | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:00 - Aug 3 with 1821 views | STYG |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:42 - Aug 3 by Ely_Blue |
You think it’s anywhere near as high as 1 in a million? |
Doesn't matter though does it. People win the Euromillions with a one in whatever chance.
The other day someone suffered the worst UK shark attack in 150 years. How many billions of people have been in that water since the 1870's and not suffered a shark attack?
Regardless of how microscopic the chances are, it's an incredibly impossible thing to expect to be able to do, to effectively agree to end a loved ones life and surely we can all understand how logic and rationale simply wouldn't come into it. | | | |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:01 - Aug 3 with 1821 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:39 - Aug 3 by J2BLUE |
Accept your son dying or keep hoping for that one in a million chance he starts to get better.
It's an awful situation. I think most people would fight the decision. Not sure logic and rational thinking come into it. |
Most people don't fight the decision though. Most people accept it and the life support machine is turned off. The fact that this family is refusing to accept the decision is the reason it's in the news. There were several people who had their life support turned off during the pandemic.
I do feel for them... but it's also pretty horrible for the hospital and medical staff being attacked over the decision when they are just doing their job. The mother has accused them of wanting to execute him. I understand her emotions are high, and as I've said in my OP I can't possibly imagine being in that situation, but language like that against caregivers isn't helpful. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:01 - Aug 3 with 1812 views | J2BLUE |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:42 - Aug 3 by Ely_Blue |
You think it’s anywhere near as high as 1 in a million? |
Probably not. The odds are meaningless though. It's the hope that there's a one that is the important bit. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:03 - Aug 3 with 1820 views | BlueBadger |
Sadly, nobody 'wins' in these very sad cases. Especially when the reporting around them is usually highly charged and sensationalist in its nature. I've looked after a few brainstem dead adults in the past, and it's one of the toughest jobs, emotionally, there is in healthcare. |  |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:03 - Aug 3 with 1801 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:01 - Aug 3 by J2BLUE |
Probably not. The odds are meaningless though. It's the hope that there's a one that is the important bit. |
The doctors have said there's no chance. Zero. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:07 - Aug 3 with 1795 views | BlueBadger |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:00 - Aug 3 by STYG |
Doesn't matter though does it. People win the Euromillions with a one in whatever chance.
The other day someone suffered the worst UK shark attack in 150 years. How many billions of people have been in that water since the 1870's and not suffered a shark attack?
Regardless of how microscopic the chances are, it's an incredibly impossible thing to expect to be able to do, to effectively agree to end a loved ones life and surely we can all understand how logic and rationale simply wouldn't come into it. |
Ultimately, ITU support is a medical treatment and ig will be withdrawn if it is not in the patient interest. Family wishes will often inform the decision but it is NOT, Ultimately, the family's decision it is a MEDICAL one. Often taken by more than one consultant. Rare cases like this arise when there is disagreement between parties and its essentially protection for all those involved. [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 14:10]
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:07 - Aug 3 with 1778 views | J2BLUE |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:03 - Aug 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The doctors have said there's no chance. Zero. |
Yes and we can accept that because he's not our family. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:20 - Aug 3 with 1733 views | BlueBadger |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:42 - Aug 3 by Ely_Blue |
You think it’s anywhere near as high as 1 in a million? |
Almost certainly higher. A consultant colleague of mine has been following this closely and informs me that public documents pertaining to scan reports are showing ongoing worsening of all functions. Ultimately, no matter how good the cardiorespiratory functions prior to injury, nobody survives a catastrophic brain injury like this.
Edit for clarity [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 18:38]
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:21 - Aug 3 with 1699 views | J2BLUE |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:20 - Aug 3 by BlueBadger |
Almost certainly higher. A consultant colleague of mine has been following this closely and informs me that public documents pertaining to scan reports are showing ongoing worsening of all functions. Ultimately, no matter how good the cardiorespiratory functions prior to injury, nobody survives a catastrophic brain injury like this.
Edit for clarity [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 18:38]
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I think he meant anywhere near as likely rather than the odds should be shorter. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:24 - Aug 3 with 1684 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:20 - Aug 3 by BlueBadger |
Almost certainly higher. A consultant colleague of mine has been following this closely and informs me that public documents pertaining to scan reports are showing ongoing worsening of all functions. Ultimately, no matter how good the cardiorespiratory functions prior to injury, nobody survives a catastrophic brain injury like this.
Edit for clarity [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 18:38]
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I think you've misunderstood Ely's point. Or I have!
I thought he was saying 1 in a million is quite a bit better than the probability, which will be much worse than 1 in a million. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:24 - Aug 3 with 1681 views | Ely_Blue |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:21 - Aug 3 by J2BLUE |
I think he meant anywhere near as likely rather than the odds should be shorter. |
Yes that was what I meant, my argument was that it would be closer to 1 in a billion for example | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:28 - Aug 3 with 1667 views | BlueBadger |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:24 - Aug 3 by Ely_Blue |
Yes that was what I meant, my argument was that it would be closer to 1 in a billion for example |
Yeah, my bad, I've omitted a few words there thatbI shouldn't have. Edited. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:45 - Aug 3 with 1618 views | Zx1988 |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:03 - Aug 3 by BlueBadger |
Sadly, nobody 'wins' in these very sad cases. Especially when the reporting around them is usually highly charged and sensationalist in its nature. I've looked after a few brainstem dead adults in the past, and it's one of the toughest jobs, emotionally, there is in healthcare. |
The only people winning here are the lawyers.
I don't know what to make of the facts of the matter, but I do wonder just how much all of these various appeals have cost in legal fees, and whether those advising the family to take the matter a step further each time are truly acting in the best interests of the family. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:55 - Aug 3 with 1585 views | factual_blue |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:45 - Aug 3 by Zx1988 |
The only people winning here are the lawyers.
I don't know what to make of the facts of the matter, but I do wonder just how much all of these various appeals have cost in legal fees, and whether those advising the family to take the matter a step further each time are truly acting in the best interests of the family. |
Have a read about the Christian Legal Centre, who are the pro bono lawyers in this case. |  |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 15:02 - Aug 3 with 1563 views | BlueBadger |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:45 - Aug 3 by Zx1988 |
The only people winning here are the lawyers.
I don't know what to make of the facts of the matter, but I do wonder just how much all of these various appeals have cost in legal fees, and whether those advising the family to take the matter a step further each time are truly acting in the best interests of the family. |
Don't worry, they're not. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 15:07 - Aug 3 with 1544 views | bluelagos |
Find myself in agreement with pretty much every comment made on the thread.
An incredibly sad case and one I can't hope to fully appreciate given I've never been in the position.
Hopefully it is resolved soon and the family can properly grieve for their loss. |  |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 16:33 - Aug 3 with 1314 views | Zx1988 |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 14:55 - Aug 3 by factual_blue |
Have a read about the Christian Legal Centre, who are the pro bono lawyers in this case. |
Thanks Facters - I hadn't realised that the lawyers were working for free. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 17:07 - Aug 3 with 1250 views | BlueBadger |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 13:39 - Aug 3 by J2BLUE |
Accept your son dying or keep hoping for that one in a million chance he starts to get better.
It's an awful situation. I think most people would fight the decision. Not sure logic and rational thinking come into it. |
At the risk of sounding cold, he's not dying, he's dead. In brainstem death, everything that makes you you is gone. All that's happening now is that the poor lads corpse is being kept artificially going. | |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 17:13 - Aug 3 with 1223 views | LeoMuff |
It is awful, and if it were my child I might well be doing the same, However it is not it his best interest or dignity to be cared for like this, requiring a cocktail of medications to tolerate a tube into his trachea to enable a machine to ventilate his lungs.
ITU beds and staff are highly precious and although awful to think children or adults may die if that one bed is not available. |  |
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| This Archie Battersbee case on 17:14 - Aug 3 with 1221 views | jeera |
| This Archie Battersbee case on 17:07 - Aug 3 by BlueBadger |
At the risk of sounding cold, he's not dying, he's dead. In brainstem death, everything that makes you you is gone. All that's happening now is that the poor lads corpse is being kept artificially going. |
Quite.
Awful and still completely understandable the parents can't accept it.
Their heads must be spinning constantly and the recent past must be torturous.
Dunno what else to add really except that people need to be a understanding and patient no matter how irrational they may seem.
*not aimed at you or anyone in particular, more the world in general. |  |
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