| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' 23:42 - Aug 3 with 6006 views | factual_blue |
Says poor Archie Battersbee's mother, announcing the legal fight is over.
Words. Fail. Me. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 12:43 - Aug 4 with 1638 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 12:36 - Aug 4 by Lord_Lucan |
It's impossible to put yourself in her situation.
As far as I am concerned she can rightly or wrongly lash out at anyone she wants, who am I to criticise. |
I take your point - but only so far. Is it right that she's accused the doctors caring for him of wanting to execute him? If you were doctor/nurse trying to do the best for a child, how would you feel about that accusation? I appreciate she's grieving but that's not helpful, and I wonder if the Christian group advising her are partly to blame for such inflammatory language. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 12:45 - Aug 4 with 1620 views | itfc_bucks |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 12:36 - Aug 4 by Lord_Lucan |
It's impossible to put yourself in her situation.
As far as I am concerned she can rightly or wrongly lash out at anyone she wants, who am I to criticise. |
100% this. |  | | |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 12:50 - Aug 4 with 1595 views | Trequartista |
and, seemingly, empathy. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 13:14 - Aug 4 with 1548 views | BloomBlue |
To be fair unless you've been in that situation it's difficult, actually impossible, to truly understand.
She said his hand used pressure against her hand, in that situation you cannot help but think maybe there is still life there and hopefully after a period of time he will be able to live in some form in the future. She has said they already accept he will never be the same.
But I can fully understand her desire to try based on his hand movement, accepting the end of your child in that situation is the hardest thing you can imagine and people will fight against the need to accept it while there is even a 0.0001% chance. |  | | |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 13:26 - Aug 4 with 1518 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 12:43 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I take your point - but only so far. Is it right that she's accused the doctors caring for him of wanting to execute him? If you were doctor/nurse trying to do the best for a child, how would you feel about that accusation? I appreciate she's grieving but that's not helpful, and I wonder if the Christian group advising her are partly to blame for such inflammatory language. |
Nah, not having that.
If I were a doctor involved I'd like to think I'd shrug it off and move to the next patient.
There but for the grace of God and all that. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 13:34 - Aug 4 with 1490 views | StokieBlue |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 08:34 - Aug 4 by Samuelowen88 |
Heard this morning they had applied to get him moved out of hospital, and into a hospice.
Totally understandable.
However the doctors had said no, due to the risks it posed to his health.....
Not entirely sure I can get my head round that. |
Unfortunately he wouldn't make it to the hospice, he's being kept alive by machines which are hard/impossible to use whilst being transported.
It's worth pointing out that there is no chance of him getting better, not even one in a billion as some were suggesting. He's not in a coma, in a coma there is a chance because the patient will still have some EEG activity, he's braindead and unfortunately that means no EEG activity and there is no coming back from that, he's been dead a long time now :(.
It's a tragic case and the attitude of the parents is totally understandable. It must be an absolutely horrible thing to have to go through.
SB |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 13:40 - Aug 4 with 1471 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 08:14 - Aug 4 by Ely_Blue |
As I previously said I think the mothers energy and efforts would be better spent making sure that someone else’s 12 year old doesn’t do the same as hers did to get in the situation in the first place, she has the media attention now and she should use it to raise awareness of these crazy social media dares that has ultimately cost her son his life and caused her and her family untold stress and trouble |
Yeah, but... she clearly isn't in the right place to do this right now. She chose her approach and took it right to its conclusion- I can see that she "had to" do that once she began to countenance a "it might be possible" narrative. She did all she could for her son, and I hope that she is able to come to peace with that.
What's best for her now is as little media focus as possible, to he honest. So I hope she doesn't become a campaigning figurehead and spend the rest of her life fighting this battle by proxy through other people's children.
She, and her legal team, don't seem to have properly understood that if medical consensus is that continuing intervention is not in the best interests of the patient then no doctor is allowed, under their professional code of ethics, to maintain intervention. | | | |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:32 - Aug 4 with 1431 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 08:34 - Aug 4 by Samuelowen88 |
Heard this morning they had applied to get him moved out of hospital, and into a hospice.
Totally understandable.
However the doctors had said no, due to the risks it posed to his health.....
Not entirely sure I can get my head round that. |
We had that decision with my mum. She wanted to go home to die, but we listened to the logical case for not moving her (to be fair, the hospital said they would if we insisted but rather wouldn’t).
Worst decision I ever made. She hated the hospital and was in extreme distress for a good 24 hours before she died due to where she was and the lack of care she had on the ward they moved her to. I wish we’d taken her home and hired carers; it wouldn’t have mattered if she’d died earlier, but would have massively helped her state of mind. That decision will always haunt me. Logic shouldn’t be used to trump someone’s dying wish. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:40 - Aug 4 with 1404 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:32 - Aug 4 by Swansea_Blue |
We had that decision with my mum. She wanted to go home to die, but we listened to the logical case for not moving her (to be fair, the hospital said they would if we insisted but rather wouldn’t).
Worst decision I ever made. She hated the hospital and was in extreme distress for a good 24 hours before she died due to where she was and the lack of care she had on the ward they moved her to. I wish we’d taken her home and hired carers; it wouldn’t have mattered if she’d died earlier, but would have massively helped her state of mind. That decision will always haunt me. Logic shouldn’t be used to trump someone’s dying wish. |
You did, as all reasonable people would, what you considered to be for the best at the time. I know full well how something like that can haunt you but you must try not to let it. Remember the years and moments worth treasuring, you cannot change the ones we wish had never happened or had been different. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:48 - Aug 4 with 1384 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 13:26 - Aug 4 by Lord_Lucan |
Nah, not having that.
If I were a doctor involved I'd like to think I'd shrug it off and move to the next patient.
There but for the grace of God and all that. |
Perhaps, only someone like Badger can really answer that. This isn't just to the people in question, it's all over the press.
I, like you, would like to think I'd shrug it off, but it might not be so easy for some. I dated a pediatric nurse for a while and some of the stuff they had to deal with was truly horrible and did get to them. They're made of tougher stuff than me but they're still only human. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:55 - Aug 4 with 1365 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:48 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Perhaps, only someone like Badger can really answer that. This isn't just to the people in question, it's all over the press.
I, like you, would like to think I'd shrug it off, but it might not be so easy for some. I dated a pediatric nurse for a while and some of the stuff they had to deal with was truly horrible and did get to them. They're made of tougher stuff than me but they're still only human. |
They are in a caring profession and will certainly be people who are affected emotionally. Most will understand that this is a reaction to a most distressing time for the parents. However, we should all remember to do whatever we can to express our gratitude to those who care for us whenever we can.
It is easy to focus on the negative from a minority and forget the silent majority. That word of thanks, little note or card is frequently worth more than the sender can ever know. | |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:07 - Aug 4 with 1337 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:55 - Aug 4 by Nthsuffolkblue |
They are in a caring profession and will certainly be people who are affected emotionally. Most will understand that this is a reaction to a most distressing time for the parents. However, we should all remember to do whatever we can to express our gratitude to those who care for us whenever we can.
It is easy to focus on the negative from a minority and forget the silent majority. That word of thanks, little note or card is frequently worth more than the sender can ever know. |
Absolutely. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:12 - Aug 4 with 1316 views | J2BLUE |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 14:48 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Perhaps, only someone like Badger can really answer that. This isn't just to the people in question, it's all over the press.
I, like you, would like to think I'd shrug it off, but it might not be so easy for some. I dated a pediatric nurse for a while and some of the stuff they had to deal with was truly horrible and did get to them. They're made of tougher stuff than me but they're still only human. |
You have to be a special person to work in a hospital.
I think it would break me working there every day. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:31 - Aug 4 with 1286 views | bluelagos |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:12 - Aug 4 by J2BLUE |
You have to be a special person to work in a hospital.
I think it would break me working there every day. |
Remember speaking to a nurse at a hospice - thanking her for the care she had given a relative. I said it must be hard for her, given people only go to a hospice to die.
She replied that they kind of get used to it - but it was the children that got to her - obviously we are supposed to die old but the kids were particularly hard for her to to deal with.
Palliative care takes a special kind of person indeed. I'd not last a week - far far better/stronger people than me. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:33 - Aug 4 with 1279 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:12 - Aug 4 by J2BLUE |
You have to be a special person to work in a hospital.
I think it would break me working there every day. |
Yeah, 100% I couldn't do it
I also couldn't be a vet, work in social services, RSPCA etc etc
I can't even watch TV programs dealing with nasty matters.
I am a complete lightweight | |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 17:12 - Aug 4 with 1227 views | Coastalblue |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:33 - Aug 4 by Lord_Lucan |
Yeah, 100% I couldn't do it
I also couldn't be a vet, work in social services, RSPCA etc etc
I can't even watch TV programs dealing with nasty matters.
I am a complete lightweight |
It's weird, you have to be a special kind of person. My Missus is the most sensitive soul you could imagine, while I probably get seen as a bit of an old school type lad at times. Yet she works in social services with kids, much of what she deals with would destroy me, I have absolutely no idea how she copes with it. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 17:15 - Aug 4 with 1222 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 17:12 - Aug 4 by Coastalblue |
It's weird, you have to be a special kind of person. My Missus is the most sensitive soul you could imagine, while I probably get seen as a bit of an old school type lad at times. Yet she works in social services with kids, much of what she deals with would destroy me, I have absolutely no idea how she copes with it. |
I mirror you in this way.
I'm a 100% old school stiff upper lip bloke but if I had to witness this kind of stuff I would melt.
My daughter works in care , especially dementia - some crazy sh1t man! | |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 18:20 - Aug 4 with 1183 views | factual_blue |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 09:00 - Aug 4 by BlueBadger |
Transferring intensive care patients anywhere is inherently dangerous. Moving fully intubated and dying children even more so. The opportunity to do that would have beechen brain stem death was diagnosed months ago when his cardiorespiratory functions would have been considerably stronger. If they're unable to move him now, it's probably because they feel his body stands a realistic chance of finally giving up in transit.
Additionally, very few hospices accept intubated patients and the Transferring team would probably be required to extubate and stabilise his body(which would likely involve a degree of invasive treatment) prior to end of life care truly beginning. [Post edited 4 Aug 2022 9:13]
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I see they want him to have 'palliative oxygen' at the hospice.
From what I've read, that's basically a meaningless concept, particularly when the patient is, in all but the most deluded of senses, dead.
I feel sorry for pretty well everybody involved in this. His parents are (I suspect) being manipulated. The NHS Trust is on a hiding to nothing.
And the poor lad is dead.
The CLC seem both mad and bad. | |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 18:29 - Aug 4 with 1176 views | factual_blue |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 08:29 - Aug 4 by NewcyBlue |
Let’s not forget that parents have lost their child. In a very public manner. Lashing out at others is understandable.
Mr Battersbee and Ms Dance will never feel whole again. They will always have what ifs. Rather than speculate or judge, we should probably just keep our mouths shut. |
Point taken. | |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 23:12 - Aug 4 with 1085 views | BlueBadger |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 18:20 - Aug 4 by factual_blue |
I see they want him to have 'palliative oxygen' at the hospice.
From what I've read, that's basically a meaningless concept, particularly when the patient is, in all but the most deluded of senses, dead.
I feel sorry for pretty well everybody involved in this. His parents are (I suspect) being manipulated. The NHS Trust is on a hiding to nothing.
And the poor lad is dead.
The CLC seem both mad and bad. |
The CLC, are, frankly, f**king parasites. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 06:00 - Aug 5 with 991 views | IPS_wich |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 15:31 - Aug 4 by bluelagos |
Remember speaking to a nurse at a hospice - thanking her for the care she had given a relative. I said it must be hard for her, given people only go to a hospice to die.
She replied that they kind of get used to it - but it was the children that got to her - obviously we are supposed to die old but the kids were particularly hard for her to to deal with.
Palliative care takes a special kind of person indeed. I'd not last a week - far far better/stronger people than me. |
I was seconded to the executive team of a community health organisation 3-4 years ago - and a lot of their work was palliative care.
I spent time with the carers and yes it's hard for them - but when palliative care is done well (and this organisation is recognised as a global leader in the field) it is hugely rewarding for the carers. Their role and purpose is to bring dignity, humanity and genuine compassion to the last days of a person's life - and as importantly for the loved ones of that person. Of course there are lots of tears shed with every family, but it is actually a privilege to ensure the last few days and hours are filled with joy - as perverse as that may sound. | | | |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 06:05 - Aug 5 with 984 views | bluelagos |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 06:00 - Aug 5 by IPS_wich |
I was seconded to the executive team of a community health organisation 3-4 years ago - and a lot of their work was palliative care.
I spent time with the carers and yes it's hard for them - but when palliative care is done well (and this organisation is recognised as a global leader in the field) it is hugely rewarding for the carers. Their role and purpose is to bring dignity, humanity and genuine compassion to the last days of a person's life - and as importantly for the loved ones of that person. Of course there are lots of tears shed with every family, but it is actually a privilege to ensure the last few days and hours are filled with joy - as perverse as that may sound. |
Have an uppie and a huge thankyou from me. Good on you sir/madam. | |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 07:00 - Aug 5 with 950 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 13:26 - Aug 4 by Lord_Lucan |
Nah, not having that.
If I were a doctor involved I'd like to think I'd shrug it off and move to the next patient.
There but for the grace of God and all that. |
Staggered that you'd say that Lucan. Try working in a hospital and experience first hand the abuse and criticism you get from members of the public. Fortunately I don't work in the ED where there is frequent physical as well as verbal abuse, but we all experience abuse of sorts, ranging from suspicion about our motives, conspiracy theories that we are all somehow controlled by some malevolent force, to being slagged off as incompetent and inefficient. All of that affects public opinion, and thus support for people working in the NHS.
What happened here is utterly tragic for Archie and his family. But the longer this drags on it is not only doing no good for Archie, who was declared dead on 31 May, but is doing irreparable damage to the NHS and to all the staff who work in it. |  |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 08:43 - Aug 5 with 886 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 07:00 - Aug 5 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Staggered that you'd say that Lucan. Try working in a hospital and experience first hand the abuse and criticism you get from members of the public. Fortunately I don't work in the ED where there is frequent physical as well as verbal abuse, but we all experience abuse of sorts, ranging from suspicion about our motives, conspiracy theories that we are all somehow controlled by some malevolent force, to being slagged off as incompetent and inefficient. All of that affects public opinion, and thus support for people working in the NHS.
What happened here is utterly tragic for Archie and his family. But the longer this drags on it is not only doing no good for Archie, who was declared dead on 31 May, but is doing irreparable damage to the NHS and to all the staff who work in it. |
I've already admitted that I couldn't work in a hospital as I'm too soft and not cut out for it.
I fully appreciate and accept your comments but in my opinion the buck stops with the parents of a dead child. | |
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| 'our country has failed a 12-year-old child' on 13:26 - Aug 5 with 819 views | blueasfook |
The wrangle now is about moving him to a hospice. High court have refused the application. Which no doubt, will now to go to Supreme court for appeal, etc.
At the risk of sounding cynical, I feel this is just further delaying tactics. Completely understandable but I dont think the boy's parents truly have his best wishes at heart now. It seems just to be about buying time and abusing the legal system now. |  |
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