| Don't Pay UK 11:57 - Aug 8 with 4276 views | Zx1988 |
From the media today, it sounds as if the proposed Don't Pay UK 'strike' has got the energy companies somewhat frit.
This article in the Metro, for example: https://metro.co.uk/2022/08/07/ofgem-begs-customers-not-to-boycott-paying-their-
And then a discussion between Jeremy Vine and Ken Bruce on R2 this morning, with them not-so-subtly passing on threats that those who refuse to pay will be put onto pre-payment meters, credit ratings will be hit, and that the energy companies are big enough to take on everyone who refuses to pay (about 11:27am on this morning's show, if you want to listen).
It doesn't take much to realise that the energy companies are getting the media to shill for them already, which seems to suggest that even the threat of direct action is having an effect. [Post edited 8 Aug 2022 11:58]
|  |
| |  |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:01 - Aug 8 with 3054 views | J2BLUE |
Martin Lewis seemed to be taking it quite seriously.
I suspect Truss will eventually offer the absolute poorest a few pennies to make this all go away. As usual it will be the bare minimum they can get away with and given to as few people as possible. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:05 - Aug 8 with 3033 views | Steve_M |
"It doesn't take much to realise that the energy companies are getting the media to shill for them already, which seems to suggest that even the threat of direct action is having an effect."
Or that energy companies exposed to rising wholesale prices not receiving large chunks of income are then themselves further exposed financially which in turn risks collapsing large parts of the system.
It's not a good answer, government support is the only necessary answer which Truss will have to be dragged into far, far too late. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:10 - Aug 8 with 2986 views | JakeITFC |
Unpredictable demand (that would come from some of the action proposed to turn stuff of for a period to hit suppliers) or missed payments (and therefore increased debt) make the costs of balancing and supplying electricity higher, and pretty much every cost in the energy industry is eventually split across all users and paid by customers. |  | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:10 - Aug 8 with 2988 views | gordon |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:05 - Aug 8 by Steve_M |
"It doesn't take much to realise that the energy companies are getting the media to shill for them already, which seems to suggest that even the threat of direct action is having an effect."
Or that energy companies exposed to rising wholesale prices not receiving large chunks of income are then themselves further exposed financially which in turn risks collapsing large parts of the system.
It's not a good answer, government support is the only necessary answer which Truss will have to be dragged into far, far too late. |
Think the financial system is going to be pushed to the brink this winter regardless of campaigns like Don't Pay.
It's pretty shameful that for all the time we've known this is coming there has been no mass national campaign to insulate homes properly, improve regs on new builds, subsidise solar panels on buildings etc etc - there was loads we could've done but haven't.
Instead we're about to get a Prime Minister who sees it as an opportunity to push through tax cuts for middle classes. |  | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:13 - Aug 8 with 2967 views | homer_123 |
Well, it's important people understand what happens when you don't pay your bills.
If you don't pay your mortgage or car loan, they can end up being re-possessed.
So, I think the media have a duty to report what might happen if people chose to do this. By the way - I'm not saying something shouldn't be done and I'm not wholly against something like this but you need to be aware of what might happen if you do. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:16 - Aug 8 with 2950 views | GeoffSentence |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:10 - Aug 8 by gordon |
Think the financial system is going to be pushed to the brink this winter regardless of campaigns like Don't Pay.
It's pretty shameful that for all the time we've known this is coming there has been no mass national campaign to insulate homes properly, improve regs on new builds, subsidise solar panels on buildings etc etc - there was loads we could've done but haven't.
Instead we're about to get a Prime Minister who sees it as an opportunity to push through tax cuts for middle classes. |
"It's pretty shameful that for all the time we've known this is coming there has been no mass national campaign to insulate homes properly,"
Something that Insulate Britain sought to bring to people's attention, but mostly we got upset about them sitting in the road. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:19 - Aug 8 with 2930 views | Steve_M |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:10 - Aug 8 by gordon |
Think the financial system is going to be pushed to the brink this winter regardless of campaigns like Don't Pay.
It's pretty shameful that for all the time we've known this is coming there has been no mass national campaign to insulate homes properly, improve regs on new builds, subsidise solar panels on buildings etc etc - there was loads we could've done but haven't.
Instead we're about to get a Prime Minister who sees it as an opportunity to push through tax cuts for middle classes. |
It's not even that nothing has been done, it's that Cameron's government scrapped a whole load of investment programmes in insulation at about the time the Tories decided to "get rid of all that green crap".
We've not even had any response to gas shortages that are going to be the first threat this Winter - even before we get to costs - encouraging people to reduce usage where they can. That's definitely possible for a lot of people in the first place even before the cost pressure forces people to make harder decisions.
According to the FT this morning (an article about adapting to high temperatures), there was a change to building regulations this year:
"For instance, ministers approved building regulations in June designed to prevent overheating, though they only apply to new residential buildings in England."
https://www.ft.com/content/37af4c37-9e85-4701-abf9-969a039affa6
Paywalled link I'm afraid, but a good piece. [Post edited 8 Aug 2022 12:24]
| |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:31 - Aug 8 with 2790 views | NthQldITFC |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:16 - Aug 8 by GeoffSentence |
"It's pretty shameful that for all the time we've known this is coming there has been no mass national campaign to insulate homes properly,"
Something that Insulate Britain sought to bring to people's attention, but mostly we got upset about them sitting in the road. |
Abso-fkn-lutely.
Many of us on here are guilty of that, and need to reappraise our priorities. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Don't Pay UK on 12:37 - Aug 8 with 2752 views | Dubtractor |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:19 - Aug 8 by Steve_M |
It's not even that nothing has been done, it's that Cameron's government scrapped a whole load of investment programmes in insulation at about the time the Tories decided to "get rid of all that green crap".
We've not even had any response to gas shortages that are going to be the first threat this Winter - even before we get to costs - encouraging people to reduce usage where they can. That's definitely possible for a lot of people in the first place even before the cost pressure forces people to make harder decisions.
According to the FT this morning (an article about adapting to high temperatures), there was a change to building regulations this year:
"For instance, ministers approved building regulations in June designed to prevent overheating, though they only apply to new residential buildings in England."
https://www.ft.com/content/37af4c37-9e85-4701-abf9-969a039affa6
Paywalled link I'm afraid, but a good piece. [Post edited 8 Aug 2022 12:24]
|
Yep, when I worked at Eon back in the 00s I was part of a team dedicated to managing the I installation of wall and loft insulation in homes across the country. Every large energy company will have had similar teams. The scheme benefitted from huge government subsidies, which I assume from your comment were removed by Cameron, who ironically got elected on a 'greenest government ever' pledge. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:40 - Aug 8 with 2713 views | monytowbray |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:13 - Aug 8 by homer_123 |
Well, it's important people understand what happens when you don't pay your bills.
If you don't pay your mortgage or car loan, they can end up being re-possessed.
So, I think the media have a duty to report what might happen if people chose to do this. By the way - I'm not saying something shouldn't be done and I'm not wholly against something like this but you need to be aware of what might happen if you do. |
Personally I think the media have a responsibility to educate the masses on their rights and what to do when the collectors knock, over stanning for corps and pushing fear of repurcussions that are toothless.
Debt collectors are like vampires, they need you to invite them in to actually do much. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:44 - Aug 8 with 2703 views | Pippin1970 |
How many people who are well off on here. I'm guessing quite a lot of supporters are in Suffolk, I apologise if I'm wrong. I'm a Northern supporter and have to do additional 30 hrs a month overtime to keep going. That's with the misses wage as well. | | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:46 - Aug 8 with 2695 views | DanTheMan |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:37 - Aug 8 by Dubtractor |
Yep, when I worked at Eon back in the 00s I was part of a team dedicated to managing the I installation of wall and loft insulation in homes across the country. Every large energy company will have had similar teams. The scheme benefitted from huge government subsidies, which I assume from your comment were removed by Cameron, who ironically got elected on a 'greenest government ever' pledge. |
Each subsequent one says they are green but they fairly obviously aren't.
Boris spent years mocking climate change and those who wished to do something about it and yet still claimed he was going green.
Looks like Truss isn't really pretending to give a crap. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:55 - Aug 8 with 2661 views | Mookamoo |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:44 - Aug 8 by Pippin1970 |
How many people who are well off on here. I'm guessing quite a lot of supporters are in Suffolk, I apologise if I'm wrong. I'm a Northern supporter and have to do additional 30 hrs a month overtime to keep going. That's with the misses wage as well. |
I'm OK, but I have spoken to 2 good friends over the weekend who Can't Pay, let alone Don't Pay.
Both families have 2 wages per household. Not really sure of the circumstances of one, but the other has debt which they already struggle to service. Their monthly commitments now outstrip their income and any Autumn increase will send them over the edge as they can't borrow. He has already restructured what he owes.
He is of the opinion he has nothing to lose and with so many in the same boat, they can't go after everyone. This is the new Poll Tax - something has to change and it will probably involve riot police. |  | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:59 - Aug 8 with 2619 views | Zx1988 |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:05 - Aug 8 by Steve_M |
"It doesn't take much to realise that the energy companies are getting the media to shill for them already, which seems to suggest that even the threat of direct action is having an effect."
Or that energy companies exposed to rising wholesale prices not receiving large chunks of income are then themselves further exposed financially which in turn risks collapsing large parts of the system.
It's not a good answer, government support is the only necessary answer which Truss will have to be dragged into far, far too late. |
I understand that entirely, and that it is the wholesalers such as Shell and BP who are the ones making the obscene profits.
The problem is that the man in the street has been crying out about this for months and has been, broadly, ignored. I dare say that if the profits/survival of the energy companies are threatened, the Government will be more inclined to intervene to help their mates. | |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:08 - Aug 8 with 2550 views | monytowbray |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:59 - Aug 8 by Zx1988 |
I understand that entirely, and that it is the wholesalers such as Shell and BP who are the ones making the obscene profits.
The problem is that the man in the street has been crying out about this for months and has been, broadly, ignored. I dare say that if the profits/survival of the energy companies are threatened, the Government will be more inclined to intervene to help their mates. |
It's disaster capitalism. All empires fall eventually due to human greed. The inept and the soulless will always get to the top sooner or later and break the system entirely. Any power structure we've ever had, with any kind of financial or social capital to be gained, will always be the undoing.
It's one of the core reasons I am in principle an Anarchist who believes in smaller co-operative communities and empathy over big government and hierarchy (a utopian pie-in-the-sky view that requires an entire societal conscious shift to work, I am well aware).
Society is very short sighted. In the last 200 years our existence and lifestyles change exponentially compared to the 200 years before where most would find day-to-day life largely the same from the day they were born to the day they died. Yet modern civilisation seems to think free market capitalism is here to stay forever.
A free market doesn't drive innovation, it just isolates innovation to a select few with the funds, often to people who aren't really that innovative at all but are good at making money, buying into other ideas to steal credit or IP theft.
If competition is good, then surely social mobility to ensure a level playing field tops this failed 40 year project of free market economics? It was sold to Reagan and Thatcher on flawed social science that has since been disproven, yet here we are watching it fall over and voting for politicians with no real answers (long term or short term). [Post edited 8 Aug 2022 13:11]
| |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:09 - Aug 8 with 2560 views | eireblue |
It is quite an interesting situation.
This problem is a result of a military and economic war that Putin has started with the West.
The Government seem to be very keen to be seen to do the correct thing when it comes to spending money on munitions to help Ukraine.
Less keen on being very quick and harsh on economic sanctions.
And seemingly somewhat reluctant to help out the citizens in their own country that are suffering worse.
Rather than simply state, we are not going to allow Putin to cause discord in European and other nations, we have potential leaders, saying, well we can’t annoy energy companies too much by proposing windfall taxes.
Curious. |  | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:13 - Aug 8 with 2504 views | monytowbray |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:09 - Aug 8 by eireblue |
It is quite an interesting situation.
This problem is a result of a military and economic war that Putin has started with the West.
The Government seem to be very keen to be seen to do the correct thing when it comes to spending money on munitions to help Ukraine.
Less keen on being very quick and harsh on economic sanctions.
And seemingly somewhat reluctant to help out the citizens in their own country that are suffering worse.
Rather than simply state, we are not going to allow Putin to cause discord in European and other nations, we have potential leaders, saying, well we can’t annoy energy companies too much by proposing windfall taxes.
Curious. |
This is why I am pro-shoplifting and fare-bunking when it comes to corporations and privatisation.
I know some people have got very upset about this on here over the years. Wonder if the penny has dropped for them yet? Same goes for the WAH INSULATE BRITAIN crowd. | |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:20 - Aug 8 with 2477 views | DerryfromBury |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:10 - Aug 8 by gordon |
Think the financial system is going to be pushed to the brink this winter regardless of campaigns like Don't Pay.
It's pretty shameful that for all the time we've known this is coming there has been no mass national campaign to insulate homes properly, improve regs on new builds, subsidise solar panels on buildings etc etc - there was loads we could've done but haven't.
Instead we're about to get a Prime Minister who sees it as an opportunity to push through tax cuts for middle classes. |
Its not often I respond to post on this forum, but this time I couldn't agree more. Well said. |  | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:43 - Aug 8 with 2403 views | eireblue |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:13 - Aug 8 by monytowbray |
This is why I am pro-shoplifting and fare-bunking when it comes to corporations and privatisation.
I know some people have got very upset about this on here over the years. Wonder if the penny has dropped for them yet? Same goes for the WAH INSULATE BRITAIN crowd. |
Hmmmm, it is kind of another interesting philosophical point.
It is deemed a human right to withdraw labour from an employer. It is a protection that individual or groups of humans can use against arbitrary dominance and cruel rules by a organisation that has control over a humans life.
In this current market economy, there are somethings that are fundamental to human well being, that are now controlled by organisations, not governments, that are in a position of dominance, water, power…what is the equivalent of being able to strike if those organisations are having a cruel effect on humans. Being in a situation whereby someone has to choose to feed themselves or their children or stay warm in winter, does seem somewhat cruel. | | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 15:02 - Aug 8 with 2218 views | hype313 |
There is something very very very wrong in the system...
* British Gas made a profit of £1.3bn between January & June
* BP announced profits of £6.95 billion between April and June alone
* Shell has profited by £9.4bn in a year
The MEN at the top:
* John Pettigrew, boss of National Grid received £6.5m bonus on top of his salary
* Chris O’Shea, chief executive of British Gas owner Centrica was paid almost £2m last year in salary and benefits
* Centrica's non-executive directors were paid almost £1m
* Scottish Power's CEO Keith Anderson is on £1.15m.
* E.On boss Michael Lewis is on £1m
* EDF's Simone Rossi is also on £1m
* And their top execs enjoyed a share of £4.65m
* Peter Simpson of Anglian Water earned a £1.3m pay package
* Welsh Water bosses awarded themselves bonuses of over £930,000
* Severn Trent bosses awarded themselves bonuses of £5.56m
* Thames Water's Sarah Bentley, received a £727,000 bonus on top of her £2m annual salary
Meanwhile there are...
* People who haven't had breakfast and/or lunch TODAY, because they can't afford it.
* People using FoodBanks because food is becoming more of a luxury than a necessity.
* Children celebrating a birthday without presents.
* Parents worrying about new school uniforms - and some schools enforcing rules which are not cost-effective.
* People who can't get to work because they can't afford to put petrol in their cars/pay for public transport anymore.
* People who are working so much they're making themselves ill, and they STILL CAN'T AFFORD to pay their bills.
* People who have been given fines by these same energy/water companies because they couldn't afford to pay their bills in the first place - increasing their debt.
* Customers being told to do STAR JUMPS TO KEEP WARM for crying out loud!
* Hose pipe bans when gallons of water leak away everyday.
* Elderly people NOT DRINKING because they're worried about running out of water!!!
All this and energy prices are set to rise up to 75% in October...
THIS IS MADNESS!.. I'm all for supporting profits ..I'm not for supporting greed at the cost of lives of others..
Something needs to change.. |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 15:13 - Aug 8 with 2169 views | leitrimblue |
I think PUT THE WIRE ON UK as a nicer ring to It. Then you won't be not paying yer bills. You just want have much of a bill to pay. Thus not affecting your credit rating but also saving yerself a few quid |  | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 15:33 - Aug 8 with 2095 views | itfcjoe |
| Don't Pay UK on 12:19 - Aug 8 by Steve_M |
It's not even that nothing has been done, it's that Cameron's government scrapped a whole load of investment programmes in insulation at about the time the Tories decided to "get rid of all that green crap".
We've not even had any response to gas shortages that are going to be the first threat this Winter - even before we get to costs - encouraging people to reduce usage where they can. That's definitely possible for a lot of people in the first place even before the cost pressure forces people to make harder decisions.
According to the FT this morning (an article about adapting to high temperatures), there was a change to building regulations this year:
"For instance, ministers approved building regulations in June designed to prevent overheating, though they only apply to new residential buildings in England."
https://www.ft.com/content/37af4c37-9e85-4701-abf9-969a039affa6
Paywalled link I'm afraid, but a good piece. [Post edited 8 Aug 2022 12:24]
|
That's not true there Steve, for the first time these new regs are very onerous on extensions too - new build is always the easiest market to target and generally new homes are green but there is serious changes to extensions which will catch a lot of people out and make them almost non viable |  |
| |
| Don't Pay UK on 15:43 - Aug 8 with 2030 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Don't Pay UK on 15:02 - Aug 8 by hype313 |
There is something very very very wrong in the system...
* British Gas made a profit of £1.3bn between January & June
* BP announced profits of £6.95 billion between April and June alone
* Shell has profited by £9.4bn in a year
The MEN at the top:
* John Pettigrew, boss of National Grid received £6.5m bonus on top of his salary
* Chris O’Shea, chief executive of British Gas owner Centrica was paid almost £2m last year in salary and benefits
* Centrica's non-executive directors were paid almost £1m
* Scottish Power's CEO Keith Anderson is on £1.15m.
* E.On boss Michael Lewis is on £1m
* EDF's Simone Rossi is also on £1m
* And their top execs enjoyed a share of £4.65m
* Peter Simpson of Anglian Water earned a £1.3m pay package
* Welsh Water bosses awarded themselves bonuses of over £930,000
* Severn Trent bosses awarded themselves bonuses of £5.56m
* Thames Water's Sarah Bentley, received a £727,000 bonus on top of her £2m annual salary
Meanwhile there are...
* People who haven't had breakfast and/or lunch TODAY, because they can't afford it.
* People using FoodBanks because food is becoming more of a luxury than a necessity.
* Children celebrating a birthday without presents.
* Parents worrying about new school uniforms - and some schools enforcing rules which are not cost-effective.
* People who can't get to work because they can't afford to put petrol in their cars/pay for public transport anymore.
* People who are working so much they're making themselves ill, and they STILL CAN'T AFFORD to pay their bills.
* People who have been given fines by these same energy/water companies because they couldn't afford to pay their bills in the first place - increasing their debt.
* Customers being told to do STAR JUMPS TO KEEP WARM for crying out loud!
* Hose pipe bans when gallons of water leak away everyday.
* Elderly people NOT DRINKING because they're worried about running out of water!!!
All this and energy prices are set to rise up to 75% in October...
THIS IS MADNESS!.. I'm all for supporting profits ..I'm not for supporting greed at the cost of lives of others..
Something needs to change.. |
It’s a situation that’s going to get worse before it gets better. The wholesale price of gas has quadrupled and seems unlikely to be significantly lower any time soon:-
1-Europe looking to stockpile supplies to replace Russian gas. And security against Putin turning off supplies in the winter.
2-China buying increasing amounts of gas to reduce reliance on dirtier coal.
3-EU moves to classify gas as ‘clean energy’ will increase demand in Europe.
4-SNP increasingly blocking any new North Sea E&P means we’ll increasingly have to look to imported LNG.
Happy days. | | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 15:49 - Aug 8 with 2004 views | mylittletown |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:08 - Aug 8 by monytowbray |
It's disaster capitalism. All empires fall eventually due to human greed. The inept and the soulless will always get to the top sooner or later and break the system entirely. Any power structure we've ever had, with any kind of financial or social capital to be gained, will always be the undoing.
It's one of the core reasons I am in principle an Anarchist who believes in smaller co-operative communities and empathy over big government and hierarchy (a utopian pie-in-the-sky view that requires an entire societal conscious shift to work, I am well aware).
Society is very short sighted. In the last 200 years our existence and lifestyles change exponentially compared to the 200 years before where most would find day-to-day life largely the same from the day they were born to the day they died. Yet modern civilisation seems to think free market capitalism is here to stay forever.
A free market doesn't drive innovation, it just isolates innovation to a select few with the funds, often to people who aren't really that innovative at all but are good at making money, buying into other ideas to steal credit or IP theft.
If competition is good, then surely social mobility to ensure a level playing field tops this failed 40 year project of free market economics? It was sold to Reagan and Thatcher on flawed social science that has since been disproven, yet here we are watching it fall over and voting for politicians with no real answers (long term or short term). [Post edited 8 Aug 2022 13:11]
|
Free market is the key phrase. And I agree that the version implemented by Thatcher and Reagan has proved itself to be a disaster many times over.
Reagan used to bleat on about trickle-down, but actually the gap between the rich and the poor has increased dramatically. He was an economic illiterate who didn't have the understanding to differentiate between sound economics and bullsh*t.
Mrs Thatcher should have been clever enough to know better, but I think that she genuinely believed that her completely misguided and destructive policies were for the good.
The policies of the early-mid 1980s, and subsequent governments' unwillingness to challenge them are the prime reasons for our becoming the least productive economy in Western Europe. |  | | |
| Don't Pay UK on 16:09 - Aug 8 with 1906 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Don't Pay UK on 13:13 - Aug 8 by monytowbray |
This is why I am pro-shoplifting and fare-bunking when it comes to corporations and privatisation.
I know some people have got very upset about this on here over the years. Wonder if the penny has dropped for them yet? Same goes for the WAH INSULATE BRITAIN crowd. |
Unsurprisingly, I agree in principle. I just feel like not doing something about it structurally continues to put the risk and burden on the more vulnerable in society. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
