| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! 13:11 - Aug 9 with 5055 views | STYG |
It shouldn't need it's own threat but by the comments on here, social media and so on clearly this needs to be crystal clear.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/01/richard-keogh-waking-up-paramed
- Keogh had missed his lift home but his teammate Tom Lawrence was in his Range Rover, keys in the ignition, ready to go. Did Keogh want to jump in?
“I hadn’t spent the evening with Tom,” Keogh says. “I had no reason to believe he was over the limit. Everyone was in there before me so I didn’t think: ‘Hang on a minute.’ It was just: ‘OK. I need to get home. Let’s go.’ The next thing I know I’m waking up and speaking to the paramedics.”
Keogh, a man going through a difficult time, who had had a couple of drinks, misses his lift, is offered one by a team mate who he didn't believe to be over the limit and woke up surrounded by paramedics.
He was not the driver.
He was not getting into a vehicle with someone he knew to be drunk.
He is not James Norwood.
He is not guilty of drink driving.
He's the victim of a drink driver, who suffered horrible injuries and was left for dead by his team mates. Yet he was sacked whilst the actual drink drivers were retained. He successfully took his employers to court.
Hopefully that can be the end of the ridiculous comments. I myself didn't know the background or whether he knowingly got into the car but I knew he wasn't the driver.
Ironically when someone suggested we go for Tom Lawrence before he moved to Rangers I don't recall anyone saying no on the basis he was the actual driver.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:53 - Aug 9 with 662 views | waveneyblue |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:17 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
You admit you don't know but presume to tell everyone what to say/think. It doesn't matter if he was the driver, Lawrence wasn't a tad over the limit because he'd misjudged timing and had a pint extra. They were out on the p1ss.
He's a senior pro and captain and made a massive error. Calling him a victim is pretty insulting to people who actually are and who lose more than a lucrative contract temporarily. Most people would lose their job if not career.
Given the Norwood stuff it is a difficult sell when Ashton is so big on the corporate image. He's not done anything on the pitch yet, but being able to separate those things and not need to go all Nadine Dorries is perfectly acceptable.
He might have put it behind him and I hope he has. Beatifying him like this is completely unnecessary. |
I honestly do not believe that anybody would lose their job or career for getting in a car with somebody they believed wasn't over the limit.
I see that Lawrence was nearly twice the legal limit, I don't have any exact facts, but I doubt he would seem particularly "drunk" to somebody who has been drinking themselves.
The Norwood situation is different, he was stopped, driving a vehicle when deemed to be over the limit.
Having your opinion is fine, but I do believe you are being a little of over the top with this. |  | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:55 - Aug 9 with 657 views | Mullet |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:53 - Aug 9 by pointofblue |
I think the issue is the greyness behind what happened with Keogh - it’s not clear, not black and white. It’s proven by the reaction to the OP; some are dismissing Keogh as lying or embellishing the truth whilst others see what he says at face value. The thing is none of us can be sure as we weren’t there.
Norwood’s case was black and white. There also seems something very odd behind it considering he was welcomed back into the fold after Cook left despite the manager telling him it was taken out of his hands. What happened - McGreal asked if he could play him and Ashton changed his mind? Goodness knows but that’s another situation where there doesn’t seem to be a simple answer. |
Quite. I'm just aghast so many go on a p1ss up where anyone in attendance is suitable to drive, I should've known better than to counter a blatant beg for upvotes to be fair. |  |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:58 - Aug 9 with 616 views | pointofblue |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:55 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Quite. I'm just aghast so many go on a p1ss up where anyone in attendance is suitable to drive, I should've known better than to counter a blatant beg for upvotes to be fair. |
Keogh could have believed Lawrence was a designated driver. I’m not saying for a moment that he did but just because a group is out on the lash doesn’t necessarily mean one can’t drive home for that very reason.
If Keogh was worse for wear himself his personal judgement might have been effected to.
Not saying this to beatify him, but does this incident mean we shouldn’t sign him? I’d feel far more uncomfortable signing Lawrence or Bennett to be honest. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:59 - Aug 9 with 617 views | STYG |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:55 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Quite. I'm just aghast so many go on a p1ss up where anyone in attendance is suitable to drive, I should've known better than to counter a blatant beg for upvotes to be fair. |
Two months or so ago I went to a works event which was our rearranged Christmas party but re-themed. I'm one of the two senior staff there.
20 of us there I reckon. About 14-15 stayed to then end. I had 4 or 5 drinks. I can tell you what the two mates I was with had to drink. I am fairly confident the two pregnant girls didn't drink.
I have no idea at all what the other 10 or so people there drank. A couple didn't drink (or so they said) and drove home. A couple of others seemed drunk and got a cab.
I am technically in charge of some of them and I have no idea how much they had to drink. Perhaps I'll write a resignation letter! [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 14:02]
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:00 - Aug 9 with 607 views | Mullet |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:53 - Aug 9 by waveneyblue |
I honestly do not believe that anybody would lose their job or career for getting in a car with somebody they believed wasn't over the limit.
I see that Lawrence was nearly twice the legal limit, I don't have any exact facts, but I doubt he would seem particularly "drunk" to somebody who has been drinking themselves.
The Norwood situation is different, he was stopped, driving a vehicle when deemed to be over the limit.
Having your opinion is fine, but I do believe you are being a little of over the top with this. |
Maybe they wouldn't to be fair, but in my game you would overtly or covertly become a pariah essentially. Management can be held responsible for stuff that goes on on a night out and have been. Especially now schools are so corporate. The idea that anyone disagreeing thinks Keogh was a criminal etc. is problematic to say the least.
The certainty of the OP and braying tone it's received with though tells us everything doesn't it? A lot like Dyer, you'd hope people would be looking at it as someone able to set a good example and be a leader for the youngsters. The need to excuse or explain away stuff constantly is very tedious. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:02 - Aug 9 with 576 views | Radlett_blue |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:48 - Aug 9 by STYG |
He saw Lawrence in his car about to leave and was offered a lift. He got in. 60 seconds later he was wrapped round a lamp post.
It's not as if he saw Lawrence stumble across the car park, drop his keys twice, pee up against his car and slump behind the wheel is it.
Keogh, who was grieving and drunk, accepted a lift from someone in a car whom he thought to be sober. It's not a serious error of judgement if there is little evidence (other than a man in a car when some players were drinking and some were not) to suggest what you are suggesting he should have known. |
It was poor judgement from Keogh to get in a car being driven by someone who might well have been over the limit, but he was only putting himself at risk, rather than others & it seems he was probably well gone himself at the time & I'm sure a few of us have made poor decision when under the influence. His success in the tribunal against Derby seemed fair enough as he was sacked as he was considered a liability, while Lawrence was a valuable asset.
He doesn't seem a great signing by Town - more in the Mick McCarthy mould - but I'm sure he's only here as back up & I wouldn't expect him to play more than a handful of games. I guess this means Ndaba is going on loan somewhere. |  |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:03 - Aug 9 with 570 views | RobTheMonk |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:00 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Maybe they wouldn't to be fair, but in my game you would overtly or covertly become a pariah essentially. Management can be held responsible for stuff that goes on on a night out and have been. Especially now schools are so corporate. The idea that anyone disagreeing thinks Keogh was a criminal etc. is problematic to say the least.
The certainty of the OP and braying tone it's received with though tells us everything doesn't it? A lot like Dyer, you'd hope people would be looking at it as someone able to set a good example and be a leader for the youngsters. The need to excuse or explain away stuff constantly is very tedious. |
On the flipside, you could also say that people are looking to vilify anyone in the public eye at the drop of a hat, or in this case a car crash, regardless or why the crash occurred or whose fault it was. |  | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:04 - Aug 9 with 566 views | Mullet |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:58 - Aug 9 by pointofblue |
Keogh could have believed Lawrence was a designated driver. I’m not saying for a moment that he did but just because a group is out on the lash doesn’t necessarily mean one can’t drive home for that very reason.
If Keogh was worse for wear himself his personal judgement might have been effected to.
Not saying this to beatify him, but does this incident mean we shouldn’t sign him? I’d feel far more uncomfortable signing Lawrence or Bennett to be honest. |
So would I, I'm not sure at any point I suggested we shouldn't sign him, I've made no reference to the footballing aspect, just this desperation to remove his agency and excuse him given his age and the circumstances.
If you get in the car and don't/can't ask or tell if the driver has had a drink that's not victimhood that's fcuking up. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:05 - Aug 9 with 557 views | STYG |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:02 - Aug 9 by Radlett_blue |
It was poor judgement from Keogh to get in a car being driven by someone who might well have been over the limit, but he was only putting himself at risk, rather than others & it seems he was probably well gone himself at the time & I'm sure a few of us have made poor decision when under the influence. His success in the tribunal against Derby seemed fair enough as he was sacked as he was considered a liability, while Lawrence was a valuable asset.
He doesn't seem a great signing by Town - more in the Mick McCarthy mould - but I'm sure he's only here as back up & I wouldn't expect him to play more than a handful of games. I guess this means Ndaba is going on loan somewhere. |
Every driver might be over the limit.
Look at all the people here asking for lifts to Forest Green.
If some bloke picked you up on Norwich Road and waved at you, didn't seem obviously smashed, you got in the car and 60 seconds later they've crashed through the Suffolk Punch I guess that the passenger is to blame there too?
Unless people have evidence that Keogh knew Lawrence was drunk then it's really bad form to suggest he was complicit. | | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:06 - Aug 9 with 545 views | waveneyblue |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:00 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Maybe they wouldn't to be fair, but in my game you would overtly or covertly become a pariah essentially. Management can be held responsible for stuff that goes on on a night out and have been. Especially now schools are so corporate. The idea that anyone disagreeing thinks Keogh was a criminal etc. is problematic to say the least.
The certainty of the OP and braying tone it's received with though tells us everything doesn't it? A lot like Dyer, you'd hope people would be looking at it as someone able to set a good example and be a leader for the youngsters. The need to excuse or explain away stuff constantly is very tedious. |
Appreciate your response and totally understand that anything that involves safe-guarding of kids comes with its own set of rules. | | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:06 - Aug 9 with 542 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:48 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Definitely, a neighbour's kid was killed last year in a police chase. They mention his girlfriend who had seen him early that day in the paper for example. If I was in the car and injured I'd certainly be named.
Maybe you're being a bit naive but if you weren't disciplined for that, you'd soon be managed out and your references would be sh1t. Proving unfair dismissal in teaching has to be pretty clear cut to get anywhere and at best you get a small payoff. I've seen it happen several times. |
But that’s not the case here is it? You can’t compare someone being in a car crash where the driver was over the limit to someone who’s died in a police chase. Yes it could have been far worse and Lawrence should rightly be vilified for his role in it but not Keogh imo. If he wasn’t a celebrity then there’s no way the press would have had any interest in reporting the name of a passenger in an accident. You’ve stated you would more than likely lose your job and not be able to get another if you were in the same position as keogh and I just can’t see that being the case. At the worst it’s a lack of judgement on his part but if he’s stating he didn’t know Lawrence was over the limit then none of us are in a position to question that as we weren’t there. The interview, particularly with the incident being a while ago, seems to show that the accident genuinely effected him and he isn’t just trying to cover his arse. | | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:07 - Aug 9 with 543 views | Mullet |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:03 - Aug 9 by RobTheMonk |
On the flipside, you could also say that people are looking to vilify anyone in the public eye at the drop of a hat, or in this case a car crash, regardless or why the crash occurred or whose fault it was. |
You could, but again assuming it has to be binary is all rather depressing isn't it? The fact that the OP and a so many others need it that way isn't the fault of everyone else either. Calling him a victim and the hypocrisy of "no one knows....but I do" needed calling out is all. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:07 - Aug 9 with 529 views | STYG |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:04 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
So would I, I'm not sure at any point I suggested we shouldn't sign him, I've made no reference to the footballing aspect, just this desperation to remove his agency and excuse him given his age and the circumstances.
If you get in the car and don't/can't ask or tell if the driver has had a drink that's not victimhood that's fcuking up. |
So when you get in a taxi do you ask the driver to blow into your breathalyser?
Unless they are slurring their words the second you get into the car how exactly, with your incredible awareness, do you manage to tell they are say 1.5 or 2 times over the limit?
Out of interest. Because otherwise you've potentially fcked up every time you've got in a cab, on a bus, on a train or on a coach. I reckon you've even got on buses without even looking at the driver to assess if they might be drunk. How silly are you! | | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:12 - Aug 9 with 499 views | Mullet |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:06 - Aug 9 by wrightsrightglove |
But that’s not the case here is it? You can’t compare someone being in a car crash where the driver was over the limit to someone who’s died in a police chase. Yes it could have been far worse and Lawrence should rightly be vilified for his role in it but not Keogh imo. If he wasn’t a celebrity then there’s no way the press would have had any interest in reporting the name of a passenger in an accident. You’ve stated you would more than likely lose your job and not be able to get another if you were in the same position as keogh and I just can’t see that being the case. At the worst it’s a lack of judgement on his part but if he’s stating he didn’t know Lawrence was over the limit then none of us are in a position to question that as we weren’t there. The interview, particularly with the incident being a while ago, seems to show that the accident genuinely effected him and he isn’t just trying to cover his arse. |
Well no, I never said the cases were the same but you raised the idea of being mentioned as some sort of impossibility or beyond belief.
I've never said it didn't affect him, it'd be hugely weird if it didn't. But the OP's whole tone and illogical contortions to get a few upvotes is weird frankly. The constant reading around and adding bits to what I've said on this thread is a great study of what I'm talking about.
In teaching once you've got a question mark against you/your CV that's basically game over, you'd lose any seniority and promotions and would do well to just be a regular classroom teacher again. Maybe it's my fault for assuming everyone knows how that works and being broadbrush, but regardless it's odd that thinking his treatment and actions weren't normal or easily excused. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:14 - Aug 9 with 491 views | RobTheMonk |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:07 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
You could, but again assuming it has to be binary is all rather depressing isn't it? The fact that the OP and a so many others need it that way isn't the fault of everyone else either. Calling him a victim and the hypocrisy of "no one knows....but I do" needed calling out is all. |
I'm not sure it is completely binary:
He wasn't driving, has stated he didn't know Lawrence was over the limit, won his court case for unfair dismissal, Lawrence has visited him with what sounds like a (rightfully) guilty conscience, none of the players have questioned his version of events...
Sounds like a drunk man got into a car expecting his mate to give him a lift home. Mate turned out to be p1ssed up and then left him unconscious in a written off car with pretty serious injuries, which is a pretty sh1tty to do.
Yeah, drink probably played a part in not realising that Lawrence was over the limit plus other things going on in his personal life, but is that a reason to drag him over the coals as a potential signing for us? I'm not so sure myself. [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 14:19]
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:14 - Aug 9 with 490 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:07 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
You could, but again assuming it has to be binary is all rather depressing isn't it? The fact that the OP and a so many others need it that way isn't the fault of everyone else either. Calling him a victim and the hypocrisy of "no one knows....but I do" needed calling out is all. |
Haven’t you suggested throughout this thread that he must have known that Lawrence was over the limit? Therefore also suggesting that ‘no one knows…but I do’?
His is the best account we have to make a judgement from and no he’s not going to come out and suggest he knew Lawrence was over the limit, however if he did, why would he be giving an interview? He’s already got his career back on track, he’s cleared himself via the courts, I don’t think he would be seeking press attention if he’d made such an error of judgement. | | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:20 - Aug 9 with 473 views | itfcjoe |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:07 - Aug 9 by STYG |
So when you get in a taxi do you ask the driver to blow into your breathalyser?
Unless they are slurring their words the second you get into the car how exactly, with your incredible awareness, do you manage to tell they are say 1.5 or 2 times over the limit?
Out of interest. Because otherwise you've potentially fcked up every time you've got in a cab, on a bus, on a train or on a coach. I reckon you've even got on buses without even looking at the driver to assess if they might be drunk. How silly are you! |
These posts are getting more and more pathetic, should have left it your OP if just wanted some up arrows |  |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:22 - Aug 9 with 462 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:12 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Well no, I never said the cases were the same but you raised the idea of being mentioned as some sort of impossibility or beyond belief.
I've never said it didn't affect him, it'd be hugely weird if it didn't. But the OP's whole tone and illogical contortions to get a few upvotes is weird frankly. The constant reading around and adding bits to what I've said on this thread is a great study of what I'm talking about.
In teaching once you've got a question mark against you/your CV that's basically game over, you'd lose any seniority and promotions and would do well to just be a regular classroom teacher again. Maybe it's my fault for assuming everyone knows how that works and being broadbrush, but regardless it's odd that thinking his treatment and actions weren't normal or easily excused. |
But then it’s a completely irrelevant example isn’t it? A bit like saying ‘well I’m a teacher and if I murdered someone I’d never teach again’? You’ve stated that your name would end up in the paper if you were in the same scenario as Keogh, which I can’t believe the papers would be that interested in you, particularly when you’ve committed no crime.
The OP’s points were true as far as anyone is able to prove. He wasn’t arrested, he didn’t commit a crime, it’s certainly not outside of the realms of possibility that he had no idea that Lawrence wasn’t drinking.
And again, I can’t see how there would be a question mark surrounding anyone involved in the same incident. There is absolutely no chance that any teacher who was involved in a car crash that wasn’t there fault would have any form of question mark against them. If you got into a taxi and didn’t breathalyse the driver and he had a crash you think you’d end up losing your job? Absolutely not. | | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:29 - Aug 9 with 440 views | STYG |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:20 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
These posts are getting more and more pathetic, should have left it your OP if just wanted some up arrows |
You're one to talk.
You've come out with some terrible takes on Keogh and made yourself look a bit silly.
But any salient point is met with some sort of cry for people playing for upvotes. Do let me know which bank I can cash these upvotes in. They sound valuable.
Is it at all possible that sometimes upvotes are given because people make a decent, reasonable or respectful view?
I have no interest in whether people agree or not. Simply put, my opinion is given, like yours and it's what I genuinely believe to be reasonable.
All I have attempted to do is counter this stupid notion that we all know when our driver is drunk. No we don't.
You cannot possibly tell me that every bus, train, plane, coach you've been on, you've known if the driver was drunk or on drugs. It's not possible. You have to TRUST that is not the case and, on this occasion, it wasn't.
As you've accused me of being petty I'm going to be. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're just upset that your best mate Chambers is being replaced in the veteran defender stakes. Half and half scarf tonight is it? [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 14:30]
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:40 - Aug 9 with 405 views | pointofblue |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:29 - Aug 9 by STYG |
You're one to talk.
You've come out with some terrible takes on Keogh and made yourself look a bit silly.
But any salient point is met with some sort of cry for people playing for upvotes. Do let me know which bank I can cash these upvotes in. They sound valuable.
Is it at all possible that sometimes upvotes are given because people make a decent, reasonable or respectful view?
I have no interest in whether people agree or not. Simply put, my opinion is given, like yours and it's what I genuinely believe to be reasonable.
All I have attempted to do is counter this stupid notion that we all know when our driver is drunk. No we don't.
You cannot possibly tell me that every bus, train, plane, coach you've been on, you've known if the driver was drunk or on drugs. It's not possible. You have to TRUST that is not the case and, on this occasion, it wasn't.
As you've accused me of being petty I'm going to be. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're just upset that your best mate Chambers is being replaced in the veteran defender stakes. Half and half scarf tonight is it? [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 14:30]
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Public transport drivers, taxi drivers and pilots have different expectancies placed on them compared to a friend who has spent an evening in a pub, though. [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 14:41]
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| Nah, didn't buy it then.... on 14:41 - Aug 9 with 405 views | Bloots |
....and I don't buy it now.
I'm not going to change my opinion (and I appreciate that it's just my opinion) just because he's signing for us.
IMHO the only possible reason that he didn't know Lawrence was hammered was because he was too battered himself to notice. And that isn't an excuse.
He was the club captain and should have taken far more responsibility than he plainly did.
.....oh, and I don't think he's a particularly good defender. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:44 - Aug 9 with 392 views | STYG |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:40 - Aug 9 by pointofblue |
Public transport drivers, taxi drivers and pilots have different expectancies placed on them compared to a friend who has spent an evening in a pub, though. [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 14:41]
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It doesn't mean a mate who has been to the pub can't be soder, teetotal or a designated driver.
Every single away day there are four or five of us. We take turns to drive. The rest have a lot of drinks. On weeks we have had four, sometimes we've been in a pub after the game and offered a lift back to another Town fan who hasn't seen the driver drink (because they haven't) but can't possibly know they've not been drinking heavily earlier.
Keogh did not spend time sat opposite Lawrence whilst he was drinking. He assumed (wrongly) that Lawrence was sober. I am sure, as captain, if he'd known Lawrence (look at it just from a football perspective - a very valuable player and source of goals and team success) was likely to either injure himself, be jailed etc or bring the club into disrepute, he'd have probably demanded Lawrence not drive. | | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:44 - Aug 9 with 385 views | itfcjoe |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:29 - Aug 9 by STYG |
You're one to talk.
You've come out with some terrible takes on Keogh and made yourself look a bit silly.
But any salient point is met with some sort of cry for people playing for upvotes. Do let me know which bank I can cash these upvotes in. They sound valuable.
Is it at all possible that sometimes upvotes are given because people make a decent, reasonable or respectful view?
I have no interest in whether people agree or not. Simply put, my opinion is given, like yours and it's what I genuinely believe to be reasonable.
All I have attempted to do is counter this stupid notion that we all know when our driver is drunk. No we don't.
You cannot possibly tell me that every bus, train, plane, coach you've been on, you've known if the driver was drunk or on drugs. It's not possible. You have to TRUST that is not the case and, on this occasion, it wasn't.
As you've accused me of being petty I'm going to be. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're just upset that your best mate Chambers is being replaced in the veteran defender stakes. Half and half scarf tonight is it? [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 14:30]
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I'll ignore the last point as it is stupid as well as petty - a player signing from a mid table Champ club compared to a mid table League 2 club.....
To try and compare this:
"You cannot possibly tell me that every bus, train, plane, coach you've been on, you've known if the driver was drunk or on drugs. It's not possible. You have to TRUST that is not the case and, on this occasion, it wasn't."
To getting in a car with a p155ed bloke who has been on a team night out with, there were stories that people were taking the p155 out of Mason Bennett that night for being sick in a urinal and try and claim its the same as getting in a taxi or a plane. It's totally beyond logic. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:48 - Aug 9 with 362 views | pointofblue |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:44 - Aug 9 by STYG |
It doesn't mean a mate who has been to the pub can't be soder, teetotal or a designated driver.
Every single away day there are four or five of us. We take turns to drive. The rest have a lot of drinks. On weeks we have had four, sometimes we've been in a pub after the game and offered a lift back to another Town fan who hasn't seen the driver drink (because they haven't) but can't possibly know they've not been drinking heavily earlier.
Keogh did not spend time sat opposite Lawrence whilst he was drinking. He assumed (wrongly) that Lawrence was sober. I am sure, as captain, if he'd known Lawrence (look at it just from a football perspective - a very valuable player and source of goals and team success) was likely to either injure himself, be jailed etc or bring the club into disrepute, he'd have probably demanded Lawrence not drive. |
One thing I would say (and it comes across as if I’m bouncing between defending and not defending Keogh but that’s because I don’t think it’s clear cut either way) - I know someone who’s actions do not appear to be impacted by drink. You look at him/speak to him, would you know he’s been drinking like a fish? No. Does that mean he isn’t massively over the limit? No.
Does that mean I should play it safe and say I’ll get a taxi? Yes. But if he tells me he hasn’t been drinking, do I trust him? Yes. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:48 - Aug 9 with 362 views | STYG |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:44 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
I'll ignore the last point as it is stupid as well as petty - a player signing from a mid table Champ club compared to a mid table League 2 club.....
To try and compare this:
"You cannot possibly tell me that every bus, train, plane, coach you've been on, you've known if the driver was drunk or on drugs. It's not possible. You have to TRUST that is not the case and, on this occasion, it wasn't."
To getting in a car with a p155ed bloke who has been on a team night out with, there were stories that people were taking the p155 out of Mason Bennett that night for being sick in a urinal and try and claim its the same as getting in a taxi or a plane. It's totally beyond logic. |
Keogh didn't get in a car with Mason Bennett. He was in a car driven by someone else that went into the back of Bennett a mile down the road.
Also, the accounts at the time suggest Keogh wasn't in the group with the younger players like Bennett and Lawrence, who may have been drinking more heavily. Keogh was the captain not the Eye of Sauron.
It's not totally beyond logic to suggest that Keogh didn't know Lawrence was drunk. Maybe let's revisit this is you become friends with him and then I am sure you'll completely accept his version of events like you did with Chambers version about leaving the club? | | | |
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