| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! 13:11 - Aug 9 with 5056 views | STYG |
It shouldn't need it's own threat but by the comments on here, social media and so on clearly this needs to be crystal clear.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/01/richard-keogh-waking-up-paramed
- Keogh had missed his lift home but his teammate Tom Lawrence was in his Range Rover, keys in the ignition, ready to go. Did Keogh want to jump in?
“I hadn’t spent the evening with Tom,” Keogh says. “I had no reason to believe he was over the limit. Everyone was in there before me so I didn’t think: ‘Hang on a minute.’ It was just: ‘OK. I need to get home. Let’s go.’ The next thing I know I’m waking up and speaking to the paramedics.”
Keogh, a man going through a difficult time, who had had a couple of drinks, misses his lift, is offered one by a team mate who he didn't believe to be over the limit and woke up surrounded by paramedics.
He was not the driver.
He was not getting into a vehicle with someone he knew to be drunk.
He is not James Norwood.
He is not guilty of drink driving.
He's the victim of a drink driver, who suffered horrible injuries and was left for dead by his team mates. Yet he was sacked whilst the actual drink drivers were retained. He successfully took his employers to court.
Hopefully that can be the end of the ridiculous comments. I myself didn't know the background or whether he knowingly got into the car but I knew he wasn't the driver.
Ironically when someone suggested we go for Tom Lawrence before he moved to Rangers I don't recall anyone saying no on the basis he was the actual driver.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:51 - Aug 9 with 520 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I am uncomfortable with us signing Keogh because of this incident (the link in the OP doesn't work EDIT - Phil has repaired it now).
However, he was definitely badly treated by Derby. On what basis was he sacked (when injured) while the others involved were kept on? Remove the captaincy by all means but why treat the passenger as more guilty than the driver?
Whether Keogh was fully aware of Lawrence's state, it is also possible for him to have learnt from the experience. One lapse in judgment should not define everything about him. He is an experienced and very good defender. I trust the club has checked out his personality before looking to sign him. [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 15:04]
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:53 - Aug 9 with 497 views | hype313 |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:48 - Aug 9 by STYG |
Keogh didn't get in a car with Mason Bennett. He was in a car driven by someone else that went into the back of Bennett a mile down the road.
Also, the accounts at the time suggest Keogh wasn't in the group with the younger players like Bennett and Lawrence, who may have been drinking more heavily. Keogh was the captain not the Eye of Sauron.
It's not totally beyond logic to suggest that Keogh didn't know Lawrence was drunk. Maybe let's revisit this is you become friends with him and then I am sure you'll completely accept his version of events like you did with Chambers version about leaving the club? |
Turn it in, they were on a team night out ffs, he knew everyone was getting on one.
Bad judgement to even give Lawrence the benefit of the doubt, especially as captain.
But, he did pay a price, and it was one mistake in an what looks like a gleaming career, I'm happy he's signed, a solid Championship defender to add some experience and nous.
I've made some dreadful decisions in my life, but I've learned from them, certainly wouldn't repeat them and glad that people don't define me by them. |  |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:55 - Aug 9 with 486 views | PhilTWTD |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:51 - Aug 9 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I am uncomfortable with us signing Keogh because of this incident (the link in the OP doesn't work EDIT - Phil has repaired it now).
However, he was definitely badly treated by Derby. On what basis was he sacked (when injured) while the others involved were kept on? Remove the captaincy by all means but why treat the passenger as more guilty than the driver?
Whether Keogh was fully aware of Lawrence's state, it is also possible for him to have learnt from the experience. One lapse in judgment should not define everything about him. He is an experienced and very good defender. I trust the club has checked out his personality before looking to sign him. [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 15:04]
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Link repaired. |  | | |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:56 - Aug 9 with 491 views | itfcjoe |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:51 - Aug 9 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I am uncomfortable with us signing Keogh because of this incident (the link in the OP doesn't work EDIT - Phil has repaired it now).
However, he was definitely badly treated by Derby. On what basis was he sacked (when injured) while the others involved were kept on? Remove the captaincy by all means but why treat the passenger as more guilty than the driver?
Whether Keogh was fully aware of Lawrence's state, it is also possible for him to have learnt from the experience. One lapse in judgment should not define everything about him. He is an experienced and very good defender. I trust the club has checked out his personality before looking to sign him. [Post edited 9 Aug 2022 15:04]
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No that isn't the case - Keogh is totally the victim in all this. He couldn't possibly know Lawrence was drunk and he should held up as a patron saint for behaviour the poor bloke.
It couldn't possibly be that he has made a major mistake, but been able to learn and grow from it to bounce back and rebuild career. There is no way this can be the case - he has to be lauded now he has signed for us - fans are not allowed to feel a bit uncomfortable with the signing and wait for him to prove his worth as a player and character - if you aren't totally for him then you may as well go up the road and support Norwich |  |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:57 - Aug 9 with 487 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
To the people claiming he must've known Laurence was over the limit (or ought to have done) - have you ever been on a works Christmas do for a relatively large company? Regardless of your own intoxication, would you have been fully aware of every other employees level of intoxication?
Lots of perfect people on this thread. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:04 - Aug 9 with 467 views | jaykay |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:05 - Aug 9 by STYG |
Every driver might be over the limit.
Look at all the people here asking for lifts to Forest Green.
If some bloke picked you up on Norwich Road and waved at you, didn't seem obviously smashed, you got in the car and 60 seconds later they've crashed through the Suffolk Punch I guess that the passenger is to blame there too?
Unless people have evidence that Keogh knew Lawrence was drunk then it's really bad form to suggest he was complicit. |
i have no problem who town decide to buy. but i can't see how your example works. if someone gave me a lift to forest green and picked up on norwich road i would have no idea he had a drink. if i been drinking in the pub with him most of the night, i might have a good idea he was over the limit ,as a couple of pints can do that.
as i say not judging at all , just your example |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:12 - Aug 9 with 457 views | Bloots |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:57 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
To the people claiming he must've known Laurence was over the limit (or ought to have done) - have you ever been on a works Christmas do for a relatively large company? Regardless of your own intoxication, would you have been fully aware of every other employees level of intoxication?
Lots of perfect people on this thread. |
...."for a relatively large company".
It was a 1st team "bonding" day, where most of the team had already gone and a group, including Keogh and Lawrence were left in a pub until closing time.
It's suggests that there were only 5 of them left.
He didn't know Lawrence had been drinking??
Chinny reckon. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:12 - Aug 9 with 451 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:56 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
No that isn't the case - Keogh is totally the victim in all this. He couldn't possibly know Lawrence was drunk and he should held up as a patron saint for behaviour the poor bloke.
It couldn't possibly be that he has made a major mistake, but been able to learn and grow from it to bounce back and rebuild career. There is no way this can be the case - he has to be lauded now he has signed for us - fans are not allowed to feel a bit uncomfortable with the signing and wait for him to prove his worth as a player and character - if you aren't totally for him then you may as well go up the road and support Norwich |
You’re replying to responses to someone who said there’s no way that he couldn’t have known that Lawrence was over the limit. So you’re literally defending the opposite end of the spectrum whilst attempting to mock people who you deem to be of a different trail of thought to you. No one will ever know other than Keogh but to suggest either possibility is impossible is ridiculous.
He’s not being held up as a hero for his actions, but anyone vilifying him when it’s completely possible that his version of events could be completely accurate is out of line in my opinion. | | | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:16 - Aug 9 with 440 views | itfcjoe |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:12 - Aug 9 by wrightsrightglove |
You’re replying to responses to someone who said there’s no way that he couldn’t have known that Lawrence was over the limit. So you’re literally defending the opposite end of the spectrum whilst attempting to mock people who you deem to be of a different trail of thought to you. No one will ever know other than Keogh but to suggest either possibility is impossible is ridiculous.
He’s not being held up as a hero for his actions, but anyone vilifying him when it’s completely possible that his version of events could be completely accurate is out of line in my opinion. |
No one is vilifying him, but I'm glad we are his 4th club post the incident than his first though as a lot less risky this way. | |
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| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:23 - Aug 9 with 411 views | DanTheMan |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:12 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
...."for a relatively large company".
It was a 1st team "bonding" day, where most of the team had already gone and a group, including Keogh and Lawrence were left in a pub until closing time.
It's suggests that there were only 5 of them left.
He didn't know Lawrence had been drinking??
Chinny reckon. |
Yeah I must say it really doesn't sound likely that he didn't know. I suppose he might have somehow not spent any time with Lawrence, I just really don't understand how.
He made a big mistake, it cost him quite a lot. Makes me a bit uncomfortable but also seems to be basically the only mark on his record. We've all made mistakes in some shape or form.
Good defender and some good experience to have. |  |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:26 - Aug 9 with 403 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:16 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
No one is vilifying him, but I'm glad we are his 4th club post the incident than his first though as a lot less risky this way. |
I feel that I would feel pretty vilified if I had been injured to the extent that I almost lost my career in an incident which was wholly someone else’s fault and had lost my job unfairly only to find myself a few jobs down the line and people still suggesting that I should have known better or suggesting that I absolutely knew that the driver was over the limit despite having no knowledge of the incident themselves. | | | |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:30 - Aug 9 with 396 views | itfcjoe |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:23 - Aug 9 by DanTheMan |
Yeah I must say it really doesn't sound likely that he didn't know. I suppose he might have somehow not spent any time with Lawrence, I just really don't understand how.
He made a big mistake, it cost him quite a lot. Makes me a bit uncomfortable but also seems to be basically the only mark on his record. We've all made mistakes in some shape or form.
Good defender and some good experience to have. |
A Rams statement read: "The players were out as part of a scheduled team-building dinner with staff and while the majority of them acted responsibly and left at around 8pm and were not involved, a small group, including the team captain Richard Keogh, continued drinking into the night." | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:33 - Aug 9 with 386 views | Ryorry |
We weren't there.
None of us know.
I trust KM, Ashton & Gamechanger.
Hope RK is sensible enough not to read these threads. |  |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:37 - Aug 9 with 373 views | blueasfook |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:57 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
To the people claiming he must've known Laurence was over the limit (or ought to have done) - have you ever been on a works Christmas do for a relatively large company? Regardless of your own intoxication, would you have been fully aware of every other employees level of intoxication?
Lots of perfect people on this thread. |
Reminds me of a time when we were staying in Ireland for a week, in some small village with like 2 pubs.
One night we were leaving the pub about 1am when a local who could barely stand staggered up and asked us if we wanted a lift with him to a nightclub in Limerick. We politely declined the offer. To this day, I sometimes wonder if he ever made it or ended up part of a stone wall or tree on the country lanes. |  |
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| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:44 - Aug 9 with 364 views | blueasfook |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:30 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
A Rams statement read: "The players were out as part of a scheduled team-building dinner with staff and while the majority of them acted responsibly and left at around 8pm and were not involved, a small group, including the team captain Richard Keogh, continued drinking into the night." |
As team captain, he should have set a better example. Not surprising Derby punished him harshly in the matter. However, the cynic in me suggests the fact he would be unavailable for the next 15 months anyway may have also been a factor in their decision to fire him. | |
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| So for clarity.... on 15:44 - Aug 9 with 346 views | Bloots |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:26 - Aug 9 by wrightsrightglove |
I feel that I would feel pretty vilified if I had been injured to the extent that I almost lost my career in an incident which was wholly someone else’s fault and had lost my job unfairly only to find myself a few jobs down the line and people still suggesting that I should have known better or suggesting that I absolutely knew that the driver was over the limit despite having no knowledge of the incident themselves. |
.....you don't think "he should have known better"? | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:44 - Aug 9 with 348 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 14:56 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
No that isn't the case - Keogh is totally the victim in all this. He couldn't possibly know Lawrence was drunk and he should held up as a patron saint for behaviour the poor bloke.
It couldn't possibly be that he has made a major mistake, but been able to learn and grow from it to bounce back and rebuild career. There is no way this can be the case - he has to be lauded now he has signed for us - fans are not allowed to feel a bit uncomfortable with the signing and wait for him to prove his worth as a player and character - if you aren't totally for him then you may as well go up the road and support Norwich |
Your ridiculous exaggerating says a lot. Silly straw men - no-one's saying any of this they're just taking his word and giving him the benefit of the doubt in lieu of evidence. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The only reason he was.... on 15:46 - Aug 9 with 349 views | Bloots |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:44 - Aug 9 by blueasfook |
As team captain, he should have set a better example. Not surprising Derby punished him harshly in the matter. However, the cynic in me suggests the fact he would be unavailable for the next 15 months anyway may have also been a factor in their decision to fire him. |
....treated unfairly, and ultimately won his case was because the others weren't sacked.
If they'd have binned them all off he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.
(which ironically he nearly didn't) | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| So for clarity.... on 15:47 - Aug 9 with 340 views | wrightsrightglove |
| So for clarity.... on 15:44 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
.....you don't think "he should have known better"? |
He should have known better IF it is true that he knew Lawrence was over the limit. I’m saying you don’t know that, I don’t know that, no-one in the world other than him knows that so I don’t believe he should be judged and held accountable for something that no-one knows the accuracy of. | | | |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:49 - Aug 9 with 345 views | itfcjoe |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:44 - Aug 9 by blueasfook |
As team captain, he should have set a better example. Not surprising Derby punished him harshly in the matter. However, the cynic in me suggests the fact he would be unavailable for the next 15 months anyway may have also been a factor in their decision to fire him. |
He was clearly sacked because they thought they could get shot of a big contract for a player who was aging, with no value and was now injured - absolutely no doubt.
Had they sacked him, Lawrence and Bennett though for gross misconduct then it's a totally different matter - everyone at the time said it was stupid from Derby and so cynical - there was even talk that his wages would now be taken out of FFP calculation and legal fees out of a different pot so may have been financial funny business.
He wasn't harshly treated by Derby, he was treated inconsistently | |
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| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:50 - Aug 9 with 336 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:12 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
...."for a relatively large company".
It was a 1st team "bonding" day, where most of the team had already gone and a group, including Keogh and Lawrence were left in a pub until closing time.
It's suggests that there were only 5 of them left.
He didn't know Lawrence had been drinking??
Chinny reckon. |
If I just have someone's word and don't have any evidence I tend to go to 'benefit of the doubt' rather than deciding to be judge and jury and finding them guilty. Seems to me a much nicer way to live than always looking for the bad in people.
At the end of the day he wasn't driving and wasn't convicted. End of. Laurence isn't a kid, he shouldn't need looking after by his captain. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:50 - Aug 9 with 334 views | itfcjoe |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:44 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Your ridiculous exaggerating says a lot. Silly straw men - no-one's saying any of this they're just taking his word and giving him the benefit of the doubt in lieu of evidence. |
Unless you breathalyse every pilot who flies a plane that you get on then you can't possibly say Keogh knew he was drunk.
These aren't exaggerations I'm making, they are literal examples from this thread | |
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| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:51 - Aug 9 with 337 views | hype313 |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:49 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
He was clearly sacked because they thought they could get shot of a big contract for a player who was aging, with no value and was now injured - absolutely no doubt.
Had they sacked him, Lawrence and Bennett though for gross misconduct then it's a totally different matter - everyone at the time said it was stupid from Derby and so cynical - there was even talk that his wages would now be taken out of FFP calculation and legal fees out of a different pot so may have been financial funny business.
He wasn't harshly treated by Derby, he was treated inconsistently |
"He was clearly sacked because they thought they could get shot of a big contract for a player who was aging, with no value and was now injured - absolutely no doubt."
Absolutely bang on, and given how Morris has behaved since, can't believe people can't see this, absolute shambles of a man. | |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:51 - Aug 9 with 329 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:16 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
No one is vilifying him, but I'm glad we are his 4th club post the incident than his first though as a lot less risky this way. |
TWTD is full of people vilifying him in the last couple of hours. Including you. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I fully suspect that.... on 15:52 - Aug 9 with 328 views | Bloots |
| So for clarity.... on 15:47 - Aug 9 by wrightsrightglove |
He should have known better IF it is true that he knew Lawrence was over the limit. I’m saying you don’t know that, I don’t know that, no-one in the world other than him knows that so I don’t believe he should be judged and held accountable for something that no-one knows the accuracy of. |
....he's not the only one who knows.
I expect that the handful of players he was in the pub all night with know too.
But, yes neither you nor I know, so we can only draw our own conclusions based on what we do know.
I don't believe him, based on the evidence known and my own experiences of being out on the piss with work colleagues, you do believe him based on what he said afterwards.
Fair enough. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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