| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:04 - Aug 16 with 1863 views | textbackup |
its either early, or im thick (likely that one) but does this means i was right to gamble with taking a variable rate?? |  |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:33 - Aug 16 with 1753 views | StokieBlue |
So basically make our kids pay for the electricity we are using now.
Another thing we will have lumbered them with.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:43 - Aug 16 with 1719 views | Dubtractor |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:33 - Aug 16 by StokieBlue |
So basically make our kids pay for the electricity we are using now.
Another thing we will have lumbered them with.
SB |
I don't have kids, so this seems fine to me.
That was sarcasm by the way. |  |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:45 - Aug 16 with 1705 views | JakeITFC |
Doesn’t solve the impact these bills will have on businesses (and the knock on effect that could have on jobs and inflation). That doesn’t seem to be talked about much at all. |  | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:13 - Aug 16 with 1620 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:45 - Aug 16 by JakeITFC |
Doesn’t solve the impact these bills will have on businesses (and the knock on effect that could have on jobs and inflation). That doesn’t seem to be talked about much at all. |
We’ve just taken on a new showroom in the midlands and it’s 4500 sq ft to heat
We have had to go in cold on a new contract and it’s triple what the previous tenant was paying.
It’s a bummer.
Our existing energy supplier wouldn’t take on any new accounts [Post edited 16 Aug 2022 8:20]
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:38 - Aug 16 with 1538 views | Freddies_Ears |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:04 - Aug 16 by textbackup |
its either early, or im thick (likely that one) but does this means i was right to gamble with taking a variable rate?? |
That is an interesting one... I am reminded of the old adage, "For every complex problem, there is a simple solution. That is wrong." |  | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:40 - Aug 16 with 1531 views | Guthrum |
Prices frozen for two years (at a fairly high level) - what happens if the wholesale price goes down significantly e.g. the conflict in Ukraine ends on terms which restore Russian supplies? |  |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:48 - Aug 16 with 1474 views | JakeITFC |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:40 - Aug 16 by Guthrum |
Prices frozen for two years (at a fairly high level) - what happens if the wholesale price goes down significantly e.g. the conflict in Ukraine ends on terms which restore Russian supplies? |
That’s just the cap though - suppliers can (and presumably will if there’s a competitive advantage) sell at any level below that to win business.
That being said the actual cost is almost double that level at the moment so would take a significant drop (even Winter-23 prices wouldn’t get us below the current price cap and the curve is in huge backwardation). The end of the war in itself would just be the start, would need gas storage levels to get back to normal and that would require a mild winter and an immediate improvement to Euro/Russian relations (and probably a slow down from the Chinese in terms of gas usage). | | | |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:48 - Aug 16 with 1468 views | ElderGrizzly |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:33 - Aug 16 by StokieBlue |
So basically make our kids pay for the electricity we are using now.
Another thing we will have lumbered them with.
SB |
As I said, why it will likely happen. The perfect Tory policy.
Reward the soon to die, penalise the young. |  | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:53 - Aug 16 with 1438 views | Darth_Koont |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:40 - Aug 16 by Guthrum |
Prices frozen for two years (at a fairly high level) - what happens if the wholesale price goes down significantly e.g. the conflict in Ukraine ends on terms which restore Russian supplies? |
Indeed. Not to mention, leaving energy bills at the current level is still a pretty good deal for the energy firms.
Also, the cost of living crisis doesn’t want to get worse, clearly, but it’s a crisis for millions at the current levels so I don’t really get the “well, at least we’ll freeze prices here” response.
But, without the threat of nationalisation and turning off the money tap completely, then we’ll be stuck with a deal that continues to guarantee margins for the companies and their shareholders. And a deal that works for them a lot more than it actually works for the country. |  |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:55 - Aug 16 with 1425 views | pointofblue |
Maybe the money could come from the profits being made by the energy companies?
Too extreme? | |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:56 - Aug 16 with 1418 views | Guthrum |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:48 - Aug 16 by JakeITFC |
That’s just the cap though - suppliers can (and presumably will if there’s a competitive advantage) sell at any level below that to win business.
That being said the actual cost is almost double that level at the moment so would take a significant drop (even Winter-23 prices wouldn’t get us below the current price cap and the curve is in huge backwardation). The end of the war in itself would just be the start, would need gas storage levels to get back to normal and that would require a mild winter and an immediate improvement to Euro/Russian relations (and probably a slow down from the Chinese in terms of gas usage). |
That article talks about a freeze in (default tariff) bills, not the price cap. | |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:56 - Aug 16 with 1419 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:33 - Aug 16 by StokieBlue |
So basically make our kids pay for the electricity we are using now.
Another thing we will have lumbered them with.
SB |
they also pay if you use the government deficit to fund a subsidy. a beefed up windfall tax would be better - but that isn't going to go anywhere near paying for a 2 year price cap freeze. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 09:14 - Aug 16 with 1354 views | giant_stow |
Seems like a bit of a one-way hedge to me. Or do they Energy companies pay anything to the fund to have their income guaranteed? |  |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 09:26 - Aug 16 with 1263 views | JakeITFC |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:56 - Aug 16 by Guthrum |
That article talks about a freeze in (default tariff) bills, not the price cap. |
The price cap applies to the default tariff. | | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 09:44 - Aug 16 with 1190 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not sure anyone should be surprised by the woefully inadequate response!
I thought it would be interesting to see what policies have been used elsewhere, and France aside they all seem pretty insignificant:
https://www.euronews.com/next/amp/2022/07/29/energy-bills-are-soaring-in-europe-
Western recession coming this way. As Jake said, even a rapid end to the Ukraine war is unlikely to bring ‘normality’. Gas usage for power generation has been rising as countries (China/Germany) wean themselves off coal. In addition, more locally, most new North Sea projects seem to get blocked (at least in the UK sector). | | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 10:02 - Aug 16 with 1130 views | Simonds92 |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:04 - Aug 16 by textbackup |
its either early, or im thick (likely that one) but does this means i was right to gamble with taking a variable rate?? |
I don't think it was a gamble when comparing the fixed prices to the variable rate over the weekend. My thinking is that they're trying to scare people in to a fixed rate (which is why British Gas sent us an email saying 'Quick sign up to this fixed rate before prices go through the roof!') before government intervention came in. I guess you could argue it's almost like a game of chicken but there has to be some kind of intervention, there would be too much pressure from the public. | | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 10:12 - Aug 16 with 1054 views | GeoffSentence |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 07:33 - Aug 16 by StokieBlue |
So basically make our kids pay for the electricity we are using now.
Another thing we will have lumbered them with.
SB |
Works for me since my two still live with us and don't pay for fwck all. |  |
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 10:21 - Aug 16 with 1025 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:55 - Aug 16 by pointofblue |
Maybe the money could come from the profits being made by the energy companies?
Too extreme? |
You can only enact a windfall tax on UK generated profits:-
1-other countries want their piece of the pie, so sales abroad have already been taxed in another jurisdictions. Some countries have also introduced their own windfall taxes.
2-the above is enshrined in international tax law.
Eon’s UK retail arm made a profit of £352m, which in isolation sounds a lot. However, if you split this and handed it back to households it would amount to a whopping £11 each. That’s why nationalisation of the utilities ultimately won’t make a material difference (around 2pc of your bill is supplier profit). | | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 10:25 - Aug 16 with 1003 views | Mookamoo |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 09:44 - Aug 16 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not sure anyone should be surprised by the woefully inadequate response!
I thought it would be interesting to see what policies have been used elsewhere, and France aside they all seem pretty insignificant:
https://www.euronews.com/next/amp/2022/07/29/energy-bills-are-soaring-in-europe-
Western recession coming this way. As Jake said, even a rapid end to the Ukraine war is unlikely to bring ‘normality’. Gas usage for power generation has been rising as countries (China/Germany) wean themselves off coal. In addition, more locally, most new North Sea projects seem to get blocked (at least in the UK sector). |
Interesting none of those EU countries (with the exception of France) are discussing nationalisation. France seemed to have fluked it - or maybe it was foresight - by increasing their stake in EDF as a result of Covid, and not as a response to Russia, giving them some control over their local market. |  | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 10:31 - Aug 16 with 938 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 10:25 - Aug 16 by Mookamoo |
Interesting none of those EU countries (with the exception of France) are discussing nationalisation. France seemed to have fluked it - or maybe it was foresight - by increasing their stake in EDF as a result of Covid, and not as a response to Russia, giving them some control over their local market. |
So some of these countries probably have nationalised utilities. However, the cost issue is being driven by the wholesale prices for the E&P/energy producers.
Very few countries are able to nationalise production, as very few are self sufficient in this regard. France is one of those. They provide almost all of their power from nuclear, some of which is exported. In terms of gas, they still import, and I assume they sell it at a loss to households with the taxpayer/state picking up the rest.
The UK and others are reliant on import, even a lot of our North Sea oil and gas comes from the Norwegian sector. Some 30pc from Middle Eastern LNG imports. [Post edited 16 Aug 2022 10:34]
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| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 10:33 - Aug 16 with 910 views | mylittletown |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:38 - Aug 16 by Freddies_Ears |
That is an interesting one... I am reminded of the old adage, "For every complex problem, there is a simple solution. That is wrong." |
HL Mencken.
Pretty much defines the government of the UK over the last 40 years |  | | |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 15:32 - Aug 16 with 652 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is likely to be the answer to the energy cap taken up by Tories on 08:40 - Aug 16 by Guthrum |
Prices frozen for two years (at a fairly high level) - what happens if the wholesale price goes down significantly e.g. the conflict in Ukraine ends on terms which restore Russian supplies? |
I was offered a one, two or three year fixed deal.
It's a conundrum!
I went for a one year fixed because I believe the price will fall. Both business and the people will demand it. It is totally not sustainable. | |
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