| Somebody my wife manages 09:49 - Sep 20 with 3745 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Doesn't want or need a passport, and doesn't drive.
What a fine upstanding woman- she has way less impact on the environment than those who do.
Of course, she won't be able to vote in the next General Election as things currently stand, because National photo ID is now required by law.
Unless a contract for National Identity Cards has been given to Group4 Security and I missed it?
Oh no, it's one of those things the Government is "going to get done", like Brexit.
Here is the laughable situation that Councils are now in, a random English Council trying to advise:
https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/elections/elections-act-2022-what-you-need-know
To paraphrase: "Once we know what the fck is going on, we will let you know how many hoops you will have to jump through in order to be allowed to vote."
Of course some Councils haven't bothered to even update their websites and let people know that they have been deliberately disenfranchised:
https://www.ipswich.gov.uk/elections
https://www.eastsuffolk.gov.uk/elections/election-types/uk-parliamentary-general
Many Parliamentary seats swing on 2 to 3 percent of the electorate. This deliberate voter suppression measure could make that difference, along with gerrymandering boundaries, under our corrupt First Past the Post system.
At least we have an independent Electoral Commission to oversee it all and guarantee free and fair elections, though:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/electoral-commission-elections-bi
Oh well, at least we have a robust charity sector who can campaign effectively against Government corruption:
https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/new-anti-protest-legislation-to-curb-chariti
Oh well at least we have an independent BBC which is free from Government interference, and wouldn't spend all summer giving unrestricted air time to Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak without giving equal air time to opposition parties, right?
https://www.thenational.scot/news/20744753.emily-maitlis-alleges-bbc-board-membe
There's loads more... |  | | |  |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:00 - Sep 20 with 781 views | itfc_bucks |
| Somebody my wife manages on 12:17 - Sep 20 by chicoazul |
It is yours mine and every free Englishman’s birthright to simply walk up and vote and has been for many many years. No ID cards; no proof of who we are. Voter fraud does not exist. ID cards are an authoritarian European measure to solve a problem that does not exist. |
"Authoritarian European measure".
Arf - where do you get off? | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:04 - Sep 20 with 772 views | DanTheMan |
| Somebody my wife manages on 14:43 - Sep 20 by JimmyJazz |
I would say it's solution offered, rather than problem solved
For anyone in this scenario, why didn't you get some photo ID sorted when times weren't as tough as you unfortunately find yourself currently in.
Is it because us Brits have the God given right not to need ID, so you felt it wasn't necessary? |
In my opinion, if something is required for something that is a fundamental right such as voting, then it should be free to get the card and potentially free to replace if lost (with some obvious restrictions).
As others have mentioned, ID cards seem like a solution in search of a problem. |  |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 15:06 - Sep 20 with 766 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Somebody my wife manages on 14:08 - Sep 20 by XYZ |
Quite.
This is a bare-faced Trumpian playbook extract intended to stop poor people voting. |
The Tories should just recruit Lutfur Rahman… [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 15:07]
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| Somebody my wife manages on 15:06 - Sep 20 with 766 views | GeoffSentence |
| Somebody my wife manages on 10:04 - Sep 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Much of Scandinavia and indeed continental Europe require voters to have photo ID, I don’t see it is that controversial.
Surely just a free ID card scheme could be set up for those with no passport/driving license? |
Free!
Yeah right. Remember last time they proposed a national ID card, it was far from free. |  |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 15:10 - Sep 20 with 741 views | XYZ |
The British have always strongly rejected anything like an ID card being imposed on them.
I recall the Blair or Brown govt. floated the idea and swiftly dropped it when the tory papers reported it as a nazi-like "show me your papers" scheme.
This is voter suppression plain and simple. | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:22 - Sep 20 with 707 views | JimmyJazz |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:10 - Sep 20 by XYZ |
The British have always strongly rejected anything like an ID card being imposed on them.
I recall the Blair or Brown govt. floated the idea and swiftly dropped it when the tory papers reported it as a nazi-like "show me your papers" scheme.
This is voter suppression plain and simple. |
If the Daily Mail readers refuse to get ID that's their problem - and not the typical voters I imagine are being targeted
Surely it's better to have ID, yet not feel the need to carry it around with you at all times. But if/when you do need it you've got it covered |  |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 15:22 - Sep 20 with 707 views | jontysnut |
| Somebody my wife manages on 10:04 - Sep 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Much of Scandinavia and indeed continental Europe require voters to have photo ID, I don’t see it is that controversial.
Surely just a free ID card scheme could be set up for those with no passport/driving license? |
Northern Ireland has had photo ID for elections for a while. They issue an electoral ID card but other photo ID is acceptable. Of course it's a much smaller population. |  | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:44 - Sep 20 with 669 views | bluelagos |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:00 - Sep 20 by itfc_bucks |
"Authoritarian European measure".
Arf - where do you get off? |
Because it's a slippery slope.
In many European countries by law you have to carry ID. Many also then give those in positions of authority the right to demand and see that ID.
Did you see the police last week in Scotland following a young protester and asking for her details? She basically called their bluff and told them where to get off. With those powers, she would have been duty bound to show her ID.
I would imagine she (and others) would be far less likely to engage in legitimate protest if carrying of ID was a requirement. And for now, it isn't, but insisting on ID to carry out a legal act of voting is yet another small step towards an ever increasing authoritarian state imho. |  |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 15:46 - Sep 20 with 658 views | Churchman |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:10 - Sep 20 by XYZ |
The British have always strongly rejected anything like an ID card being imposed on them.
I recall the Blair or Brown govt. floated the idea and swiftly dropped it when the tory papers reported it as a nazi-like "show me your papers" scheme.
This is voter suppression plain and simple. |
How? If you have nothing to hide where is the suppression?
Suppression was pre 1832 when elections were done by hustings and those few that could vote were beaten up or bribed. The rest of the plebs got f*** all.
I’m not necessarily advocating ID cards, just exploring the possibilities. What the British might have liked years ago may not be the same now and visa versa. |  | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:50 - Sep 20 with 643 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Somebody my wife manages on 14:43 - Sep 20 by JimmyJazz |
I would say it's solution offered, rather than problem solved
For anyone in this scenario, why didn't you get some photo ID sorted when times weren't as tough as you unfortunately find yourself currently in.
Is it because us Brits have the God given right not to need ID, so you felt it wasn't necessary? |
So you're blaming people for not getting a driving licence that they didn't want or need (or couldn't afford) in the past in case they might have needed it in order to be able to vote in the future?
You could save yourself some mental gymnastics and blame the Government for rigging things to suppress voting from poorer areas.
It might come as a shock to you, but most people on the Minimum Wage and working Full Time would struggle to find an extra £34 most months. It's 10% of their gross weekly wage, 11% of take home. | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:52 - Sep 20 with 642 views | XYZ |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:46 - Sep 20 by Churchman |
How? If you have nothing to hide where is the suppression?
Suppression was pre 1832 when elections were done by hustings and those few that could vote were beaten up or bribed. The rest of the plebs got f*** all.
I’m not necessarily advocating ID cards, just exploring the possibilities. What the British might have liked years ago may not be the same now and visa versa. |
Because you have to be aware - have you seen this drastic change advertised anywhere?
Why do you think they've made such a change when there's no problem to solve?
"If you've nothing to hide" - how about not wanting to be harassed by bent policemen? | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 16:30 - Sep 20 with 590 views | Churchman |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:52 - Sep 20 by XYZ |
Because you have to be aware - have you seen this drastic change advertised anywhere?
Why do you think they've made such a change when there's no problem to solve?
"If you've nothing to hide" - how about not wanting to be harassed by bent policemen? |
Lost me there. What change? It’s just a discussion about ID cards and their possible uses.
Why would you be harassed by a bent policeman? Yes, there are some wrong uns, like every walk of life, but I suspect they are mostly just people trying to do a very difficult job with shrinking resources and zero support. In theory would an ID card make people safer or more at risk? | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 16:32 - Sep 20 with 591 views | jeera |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:22 - Sep 20 by JimmyJazz |
If the Daily Mail readers refuse to get ID that's their problem - and not the typical voters I imagine are being targeted
Surely it's better to have ID, yet not feel the need to carry it around with you at all times. But if/when you do need it you've got it covered |
I think you've misunderstood this.
It's the very poorest who would suffer the consequences, not the types who would be buying the DM. |  |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 16:40 - Sep 20 with 573 views | JimmyJazz |
| Somebody my wife manages on 16:32 - Sep 20 by jeera |
I think you've misunderstood this.
It's the very poorest who would suffer the consequences, not the types who would be buying the DM. |
Indeed, but it's ironic that it was DM readers who were so against the ID card previously | |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 16:45 - Sep 20 with 557 views | Vaughan8 |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:50 - Sep 20 by ArnoldMoorhen |
So you're blaming people for not getting a driving licence that they didn't want or need (or couldn't afford) in the past in case they might have needed it in order to be able to vote in the future?
You could save yourself some mental gymnastics and blame the Government for rigging things to suppress voting from poorer areas.
It might come as a shock to you, but most people on the Minimum Wage and working Full Time would struggle to find an extra £34 most months. It's 10% of their gross weekly wage, 11% of take home. |
"struggle to find an extra £34 most months. It's 10% of their gross weekly wage, 11% of take home."
So you say £34 a month then say its 10% of their weekly wage? it would be 2.3% of their monthly gross wage (based on 37.5 hour week), and 0.19% of their annual gross?
ALso doesn't it state "Further details will appear here on what is acceptable ID and a link to GOV.UK on how to request one if you have no suitable form of photographic identity."
Aren't you being a bit premature? Just wait for the details and apply then? Or am I missing the point? | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 17:14 - Sep 20 with 533 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:46 - Sep 20 by Churchman |
How? If you have nothing to hide where is the suppression?
Suppression was pre 1832 when elections were done by hustings and those few that could vote were beaten up or bribed. The rest of the plebs got f*** all.
I’m not necessarily advocating ID cards, just exploring the possibilities. What the British might have liked years ago may not be the same now and visa versa. |
Oh come on! Suppression is a sliding scale with bribery and beating people up firmly at the extreme end.
Anything which discourages people from exercising their democratic right to vote is a form of suppression. Putting additional barriers, whether through onerous bureaucracy or cost, in the way of voters is a form of suppression.
When a particular approach *appears* to target supporters of an opposition party disproportionately then it is a particularly insidious, anti-democratic and quasi-totalitarian form of suppression.
So let's look at the evidence:
Approximately 3.5m electors (7.5% of the electorate) would have none of the forms of photo ID highlighted:
photographic driving licence
passport
Proof of Age Standards Scheme (PASS) card
military identification card
police identification card
and firearms licence.
photographic public transport passes, including certain concessionary travel passes such as the Freedom Pass and Oyster Photocard
Limiting acceptable ID to passports and photographic driving licences would see potentially 11m electors, or 24% of the electorate, without acceptable ID.Â
So between 7.5% and 24% of the electorate would require new photo identification cards.
Analysis by Professor Chris Hanretty and Financial Times journalist John Burn-Murdoch suggests that there is a strong association between the possession of a driving licence and voting patterns: those without a driving license were more likely to report voting Labour (57%) than Conservative (27%) at the 2017 General Election.
The above from here:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/voter-id-key-facts-and-figures/
So a measure that will disproportionately impact Labour voters significantly more than Conservative voters.
And when you bear in mind that the Conservative Government has a current working majority of 71:
https://members.parliament.uk/parties/Commons
And that:
"Of the 650 parliamentary constituencies, 67 seats were won by a margin of 5% or less of votes cast."
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-marginality/
You can see how a measure which (depending on precisely how it is to be implemented) puts a significant obstacle in the way of between 7.5 and 24% of the electorate, who are disproportionately likely to be Labour voters, could literally decide the outcome of the next General Election. | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 17:30 - Sep 20 with 520 views | XYZ |
| Somebody my wife manages on 16:30 - Sep 20 by Churchman |
Lost me there. What change? It’s just a discussion about ID cards and their possible uses.
Why would you be harassed by a bent policeman? Yes, there are some wrong uns, like every walk of life, but I suspect they are mostly just people trying to do a very difficult job with shrinking resources and zero support. In theory would an ID card make people safer or more at risk? |
It's a discussion about ID being required for voting in UK elections.
The fact you seem unaware of that rather proves my point.
Bent police? Two in Scotland followed a girl protester and demanded ID and home address to leave her alone ... | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 17:33 - Sep 20 with 515 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Somebody my wife manages on 16:45 - Sep 20 by Vaughan8 |
"struggle to find an extra £34 most months. It's 10% of their gross weekly wage, 11% of take home."
So you say £34 a month then say its 10% of their weekly wage? it would be 2.3% of their monthly gross wage (based on 37.5 hour week), and 0.19% of their annual gross?
ALso doesn't it state "Further details will appear here on what is acceptable ID and a link to GOV.UK on how to request one if you have no suitable form of photographic identity."
Aren't you being a bit premature? Just wait for the details and apply then? Or am I missing the point? |
Your maths are right, as are mine. 35 hours plus is Full Time. Some people on Minimum Wage will be paid weekly, some monthly. Either way £34 is a lot of money to find on top of everything else going up at the moment. And those figures are for Full Time employees. And using the highest, over 23 years, rate of Minimum Wage, the percentage is much worse for younger workers, who are disproportionately likely to be on Minimum Wage and not have a passport or driving licence.
I don't think I am being premature, no. The details haven't been worked out, and the scheme certainly hasn't been implemented, but the Law is in force. So who would be eligible to vote if a General Election was called or forced tomorrow?
And when the details are published, and between 7.5 and 24% of the electorate are disenfranchised overnight, how many of them will be deterred from completing the process to obtain the new Voter ID card? What will the process be? Will they have to appear in person during office hours to have the photo verified? Will a person of standing in the community have to verify it (like with passports)? How many civil servants have been set aside to administer it? How much office space? What is the budget? How long will the waiting list be?
Did you see what happened when lockdown restrictions eased and everyone tried to get a passport at the same time?
The law is in force. Most of the above should have been known before MPs voted for it. That it wasn't and "fiscally responsible" Tory MPs who are "in favour of small Government" and "libertarian" voted for such an uncosted, intrusive measure shows that it was simply a ruse designed to prop up a few more of them in their vulnerable seats.
Wait for the details. Like with Brexit. What could possibly go wrong?
For Tory MPs, if a few thousand less poorer people vote in their constituency, absolutely nothing. | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 18:09 - Sep 20 with 491 views | azuremerlangus |
| Somebody my wife manages on 15:22 - Sep 20 by JimmyJazz |
If the Daily Mail readers refuse to get ID that's their problem - and not the typical voters I imagine are being targeted
Surely it's better to have ID, yet not feel the need to carry it around with you at all times. But if/when you do need it you've got it covered |
Agree.
I don't get the drama about ID cards (whether free or for a small fee). OK carrying them around as a mandatory thing is another discussion but they are handy as for proof of age/address etc when politely asked for.
I have to carry an ID for work (officially at all times, not just for work) and I have never had a problem with it in nearly 40 years - in all cases it has helped resolve awkward situations rather than possibly creating a perceived infringement on my civil rights. |  |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 18:33 - Sep 20 with 463 views | HARRY10 |
To counter tall the misinformation about voter ID the government has clarified things by stating that anyone entitled to vote will be entitled to free voter ID - available from your local council.
Simply turn up with a photo and two forms of ID, one being photo ID. Armed forces ID card, passport, driving licence or local authority employees ID.
To avoid the fraud, voters will be required to acquire new ID at each election. Given the demand voters are advised to apply at least 3 months in advance. | | | |
| Somebody my wife manages on 18:57 - Sep 20 with 449 views | bluelagos |
| Somebody my wife manages on 18:33 - Sep 20 by HARRY10 |
To counter tall the misinformation about voter ID the government has clarified things by stating that anyone entitled to vote will be entitled to free voter ID - available from your local council.
Simply turn up with a photo and two forms of ID, one being photo ID. Armed forces ID card, passport, driving licence or local authority employees ID.
To avoid the fraud, voters will be required to acquire new ID at each election. Given the demand voters are advised to apply at least 3 months in advance. |
"Simply turn up with a photo and two forms of ID, one being photo ID"
Where's that from H? Seems nonsensical to me. | |
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| Somebody my wife manages on 19:15 - Sep 20 with 434 views | HARRY10 |
| Somebody my wife manages on 18:57 - Sep 20 by bluelagos |
"Simply turn up with a photo and two forms of ID, one being photo ID"
Where's that from H? Seems nonsensical to me. |
merely a send up of idiot righties and the government  | | | |
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