| Poland hit by missile... 19:16 - Nov 15 with 9649 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...and Moldova suffering power outages. Surely a good enough reason to massively increase air defense system supplies to Ukraine?
Edit....removed 'Russian' from title.
There is still enough reason to supply better air defence systems. [Post edited 16 Nov 2022 7:17]
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:25 - Nov 15 with 2086 views | Trequartista |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:07 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
Russia aren't going to start a nuclear conflict, there is nothing in it for them, it's scaremongering of the highest order.
SB |
Logically they won't of course, but you don't take risks with a tyrant and a gangster state in charge of the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. If we were so sure they wouldn't start a nuclear conflict, they'd be NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine! |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:27 - Nov 15 with 2079 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:21 - Nov 15 by Keno |
Dont forget the Danzig, sorry kaliningrad corridor |
Why mentioning Danzig? |  | | |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:27 - Nov 15 with 2087 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
It is sufficient provocation for NATO to invade Russia and oust the regime.
It won't and neither should it do; but it is sufficient provocation to justify it, unlike anything that Russia has described as provocation so far. |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:36 - Nov 15 with 2022 views | Guthrum |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:24 - Nov 15 by BlueForYou |
Poor aim?? If Russia had not fired deadly missiles towards innocent Ukraine civilians, we would not have an issue. Wait for confirmation of course, but it would seem to confirm that Russia are severely trying the west's patience. It is an attack on NATO territory. Anyone thinking Putin would not consider nuclear weapons is naive. Very serious times. He is goading us to get involved. |
Knocking out the power grid is a logical military strategy. It was the first thing the the Coalition did when going into Iraq in 2003. I'm more surprised the Russians left it until nine months into the war, rather than on the opening day.
The whole act of aggression launched by Vladimir Putin on 24th February is the cause of all this death and suffering.
Getting NATO involved gains Russia nothing and would cause enormous difficulty. Why would they want to do it? Especially now, when their military has been severly ground down bu months of fighting. Starting a nuclear war would end with everyone dead. Russia would cease to exist. There is no reason for Putin to start one. He wants to have a legacy and die in his bed, not be the man who got his country destroyed. |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:53 - Nov 15 with 1961 views | BlueForYou |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:36 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
Knocking out the power grid is a logical military strategy. It was the first thing the the Coalition did when going into Iraq in 2003. I'm more surprised the Russians left it until nine months into the war, rather than on the opening day.
The whole act of aggression launched by Vladimir Putin on 24th February is the cause of all this death and suffering.
Getting NATO involved gains Russia nothing and would cause enormous difficulty. Why would they want to do it? Especially now, when their military has been severly ground down bu months of fighting. Starting a nuclear war would end with everyone dead. Russia would cease to exist. There is no reason for Putin to start one. He wants to have a legacy and die in his bed, not be the man who got his country destroyed. |
Hope this is an error, but you're not dealing with normal, sensible, logical, people here. Putin is a pure unhinged evil liar. He's playing sick games & has been almost desperate for a full on scrap with NATO for years. Hopefully someone close enough has the balls to take him out [Post edited 15 Nov 2022 20:54]
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:55 - Nov 15 with 1949 views | GlasgowBlue |
Be afraid. Matt Hancock is out of harm's way in Australia and is now our designated survivor. |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:56 - Nov 15 with 1948 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:27 - Nov 15 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It is sufficient provocation for NATO to invade Russia and oust the regime.
It won't and neither should it do; but it is sufficient provocation to justify it, unlike anything that Russia has described as provocation so far. |
If it was hit by any fire from the Ukrainians (whether Ground to Air missiles, AA flak or even small arms fire) which damaged the control and guidance system, then it isn't justification for any retaliatory action at all.
But my earlier suggestion of Zelensky inviting NATO air defence onto Ukrainian territory to provide a shield for NATO territory is about the strongest response possible. |  | | |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:58 - Nov 15 with 1909 views | HARRY10 |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:07 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
Russia aren't going to start a nuclear conflict, there is nothing in it for them, it's scaremongering of the highest order.
SB |
yep
Putin will now struggle to hold Russia together. Separatist regions will have the support of their populace by the resented conscription of their citizens to fight in what they will regard as a "quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing" - and a war in which Russia has to all intents and purposes lost, and is now weaker. If only in weaponry etc
While it would be hard to say that the 'west' has provoked this war, it will certainly be aware of the benefits this will ultimately bring.
Countries now less dependent on Russian gas. Russia can now be better painted as the worlds baddie.... in league with other baddies (Iran, Syria). And it has allowed for cosying up to China and India (by the US) which I doubt is not an unconnected event either.
I expect there will be huge contracts to come in rebuilding Ukraine.... whixh can be paid for by exploiting the oil fields in Eastern Ukraine | | | |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:01 - Nov 15 with 1913 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 19:38 - Nov 15 by Oldsmoker |
It depends on how Russia explain themselves.
If their response is the equivalent of 'Go and do one' or "What'ev" then I think the temperature will start to rise. |
Looks like a typical deny everything blame someone else gambit. |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:02 - Nov 15 with 1915 views | Guthrum |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 20:53 - Nov 15 by BlueForYou |
Hope this is an error, but you're not dealing with normal, sensible, logical, people here. Putin is a pure unhinged evil liar. He's playing sick games & has been almost desperate for a full on scrap with NATO for years. Hopefully someone close enough has the balls to take him out [Post edited 15 Nov 2022 20:54]
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I disagree. Putin is an entirely sane and logical Russian nationalist. That's not the same logic and mentality most of us in the West have (especially when it comes to national destiny and historical perspectives), but it is a rational structure all the same. | |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:16 - Nov 15 with 1861 views | Oldsmoker |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:01 - Nov 15 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Looks like a typical deny everything blame someone else gambit. |
It has to be.
Russia will sow enough seeds of doubt and of course Biden is the only one person who has to decide to do nothing and everyone else will fall in line. |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:17 - Nov 15 with 1853 views | Edmundo |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 19:37 - Nov 15 by Trequartista |
I would have thought they are already supplying as much as they can up to the point where they judge any more would raise the chances of a nuclear conflict to an unacceptable level. Avoiding nuclear conflict is of course the number one priority. |
Nuclear war would only happen if The World's Biggest Ar$ehole, Putin, decides to do it. No one else is that mad.
He is losing his grip though, so maybe supporting an assassination attempt on him in the Kremlin is the best way to go here. |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:20 - Nov 15 with 1816 views | Guthrum |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:16 - Nov 15 by Oldsmoker |
It has to be.
Russia will sow enough seeds of doubt and of course Biden is the only one person who has to decide to do nothing and everyone else will fall in line. |
They won't do nothing, they will continue what they're doing already. Which is a very bad outcome for Russia. | |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:24 - Nov 15 with 1797 views | Churchman |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:01 - Nov 15 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Looks like a typical deny everything blame someone else gambit. |
Of course it’s what they’ll do. They always do. False flag, wasn’t us, Nazi Ukrainians provoking ….yawn.
Biden won’t do anything and Putin knows it. It’s why they keep pushing it. They’ll sleep easy. |  | | |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:28 - Nov 15 with 1761 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:20 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
They won't do nothing, they will continue what they're doing already. Which is a very bad outcome for Russia. |
For all the threat that major stockpiling of nuclear weapons has, conflict between Russia and the West has always been fought by each side arming different sides in other conflicts. However, Russia is the actual army here rather than them arming a different one. The impact on their power is much greater than previous conflicts.
Is it almost getting to the point where Putin either has to admit some form of defeat or bring about the major escalation the West is refusing to give him? | |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:35 - Nov 15 with 1730 views | lowhouseblue |
oh, i see what you did there. but sometimes the bad guy is really the bad guy you know. i know, i know, accepting that would make you part of the consensus and your whole being would then evaporate in existentialist angst. [Post edited 15 Nov 2022 22:23]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:35 - Nov 15 with 1724 views | BloomBlue |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:24 - Nov 15 by Churchman |
Of course it’s what they’ll do. They always do. False flag, wasn’t us, Nazi Ukrainians provoking ….yawn.
Biden won’t do anything and Putin knows it. It’s why they keep pushing it. They’ll sleep easy. |
Both sides also use the same weapons, Ukraine has a lot of Russian made missiles, Russia will simply say its a Ukrainian missile and China will back them |  | | |
| Some clarification on 21:35 - Nov 15 with 1732 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Some clarification on 19:54 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
Now reports that the missile may have crashed across the border after being hit by Ukrainian air defence forces. |
According to this Twitter account (which I've been following with interest for a while), it looks like it might have been a Ukrainian missile (probably fired in an attempt to head off some the incoming Russian cruise missiles).
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:42 - Nov 15 with 1686 views | RegencyBlue |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 19:43 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
Poland could theoretically invoke Article 5. However, I very much doubt this is part of any deliberate attack, so wouldn't really be justified.
They will probably demand NATO anti-air/missile units be based on their borders, tho. |
My guess is they will invoke Article 4
The parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened.
Think Poland, and Ukraine, will get their hands on a lot of shiny new kit after this! |  | | |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:43 - Nov 15 with 1676 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:02 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
I disagree. Putin is an entirely sane and logical Russian nationalist. That's not the same logic and mentality most of us in the West have (especially when it comes to national destiny and historical perspectives), but it is a rational structure all the same. |
Exactly. Putin has never forgiven Gorbachev for basically dismantling the USSR in the late 80s and destroying its history and prestige - everything he does should be seen through the prism of trying to re-establish a viable USSR. |  |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:44 - Nov 15 with 1677 views | Guthrum |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:28 - Nov 15 by Nthsuffolkblue |
For all the threat that major stockpiling of nuclear weapons has, conflict between Russia and the West has always been fought by each side arming different sides in other conflicts. However, Russia is the actual army here rather than them arming a different one. The impact on their power is much greater than previous conflicts.
Is it almost getting to the point where Putin either has to admit some form of defeat or bring about the major escalation the West is refusing to give him? |
Putin doesn't have a lot of options for escalation.
He's already used up a lot of his best ground units and stocks of missiles. The Black Sea Fleet is also badly dented. Widening the war just invites further military pressure. Involving NATO would mean almost certain defeat and run the risk of nuclear annihilation if things get out of control. | |
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| Some clarification on 21:48 - Nov 15 with 1650 views | Guthrum |
| Some clarification on 21:35 - Nov 15 by Clapham_Junction |
According to this Twitter account (which I've been following with interest for a while), it looks like it might have been a Ukrainian missile (probably fired in an attempt to head off some the incoming Russian cruise missiles).
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Altho the Russians have been using S-300s as improvised surface-to-surface missiles (fired on a ballistic trajectory, with the radar tweaked to give moderate guidance on land targets).
Older models of S-300 have now been superceded by the S-400 in Russian front-line service, so are going spare. | |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:55 - Nov 15 with 1614 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:44 - Nov 15 by Guthrum |
Putin doesn't have a lot of options for escalation.
He's already used up a lot of his best ground units and stocks of missiles. The Black Sea Fleet is also badly dented. Widening the war just invites further military pressure. Involving NATO would mean almost certain defeat and run the risk of nuclear annihilation if things get out of control. |
Does that leave Putin with the only option to admit some form of defeat? How does he save any face in this?
Or have I missed something? | |
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| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 22:00 - Nov 15 with 1599 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Poland hit by Russian missiles... on 21:35 - Nov 15 by lowhouseblue |
oh, i see what you did there. but sometimes the bad guy is really the bad guy you know. i know, i know, accepting that would make you part of the consensus and your whole being would then evaporate in existentialist angst. [Post edited 15 Nov 2022 22:23]
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Are you drunk? No capital letters.
Sorry but you've lost me. | |
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| Some clarification on 22:02 - Nov 15 with 1595 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some clarification on 21:35 - Nov 15 by Clapham_Junction |
According to this Twitter account (which I've been following with interest for a while), it looks like it might have been a Ukrainian missile (probably fired in an attempt to head off some the incoming Russian cruise missiles).
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War is indeed a messy business. | |
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