| Question for those around in the Robson era 13:00 - Oct 12 with 5804 views | Jrm_72 |
One of the things that characterises our current fandom is the anxiety of McKenna getting poached by a "bigger club". For me, this is a new feeling - there was never any anxiety about Burley being poached, it was far more holding onto our players if we didn't go up.
So, I wondered, was there any poaching anxiety about Robson? I know its not a like for like, as we were in and around the top of Div 1 for a lot of his time and we are now, as we were in the Burley era, in and around the top of the division below. This means in the 70's/80's the list of "bigger jobs" is much smaller.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd probably say the bigger clubs would have been Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Man U (they were in their wilderness years but huge history). Villa I know were around the top but I would see them as level with us in that era. And of course England.
Was holding onto Robson a stress? What was it like when England came calling? |  | | |  |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 23:07 - Oct 12 with 1347 views | JimmyJazz |
My memory of fan stress was around Muhren and Thijssen, both on 2 year contracts ending in successive years. Muhren first, he signed a further 2 year contract. Thijssen the next year - he also signed a further 2 year contract, Muhren again the year after - that was quite stressful for the latter part of about 3 seasons in a row. |  |
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| Question for those around in the Robson era on 07:47 - Oct 13 with 1300 views | ElephantintheRoom |
He was regularly approached - Bilbao twice I seem to remember, Barcelona and he allegedly agreed to join Everton before Cobbold talked him out of it.
After the Town ´supporters’ called for him to be sacked there weren’t really any ‘bigger clubs’ apart from perhaps Liverpool in terms of league finishes - even if Town usually tripped themselves up in cups. Europe seemed to Citicorp and more highly paid at the time.
McKenna is a bit different. He hasn’t achieved anything other than a very expensive second place in the third division and has had a good dozen games in the second division. In an era of stat analysis and US carpetbagger ownership I suspect the number crunchers at ´bigger clubs’ such as Leeds and Southampton are yet to be convinced - and anything higher in the pyramid is wishful thinking at present. | |
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| Question for those around in the Robson era on 08:14 - Oct 13 with 1268 views | Churchman |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 07:47 - Oct 13 by ElephantintheRoom |
He was regularly approached - Bilbao twice I seem to remember, Barcelona and he allegedly agreed to join Everton before Cobbold talked him out of it.
After the Town ´supporters’ called for him to be sacked there weren’t really any ‘bigger clubs’ apart from perhaps Liverpool in terms of league finishes - even if Town usually tripped themselves up in cups. Europe seemed to Citicorp and more highly paid at the time.
McKenna is a bit different. He hasn’t achieved anything other than a very expensive second place in the third division and has had a good dozen games in the second division. In an era of stat analysis and US carpetbagger ownership I suspect the number crunchers at ´bigger clubs’ such as Leeds and Southampton are yet to be convinced - and anything higher in the pyramid is wishful thinking at present. |
Paragraph 1: Bobby Robson actually met the Everton people and agreed to join them. He asked them not to announce it before he’d spoken to John Cobbold. Everton didn’t keep their word and Robson saw it on a billboard.
Bobby Robson basically couldn’t go through with moving to a club that couldn’t keep their word and look John Cobbold and his brilliant, honourable directors in the eye. The conversation was very much Bobby saying he wanted to stay. JC didn’t do any persuading. That’s roughly my understanding of it.
Paragraph 2: The grumbling of the crowd was during the Man U League Cup game when Best tore us a new one in around 71/72 and before Robson assembled his first really good team. The clubs I mentioned earlier in the thread were always bigger in terms of support and reach and of course still are. League finishes and success have nothing to do with this aspect.
Paragraph 3: I’ve no idea what you are on about. Still ‘carpet bagger ownership’ makes a change from ‘debt peddlers’. Your yearning for a long gone sepia past still grinds on I see. Perhaps that’s because your understanding of what a football club actually is so woefully lacking. But Norwich eh? Still a good bet for the play offs so don’t be too disheartened. |  | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 09:23 - Oct 13 with 1236 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
As I recall, it took Robson a good 3 years to really establish himself and it wasn't until 73 that we started to see that something big was taking shape. In those first years, there were lots of calls to get rid of Robson, and he even had a fight in the dressing room with Bill Baxter. Allegedly. In comparison, what McKenna has achieved here is lightning speed and the whole dressing room are totally bought in. |  |
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| Question for those around in the Robson era on 10:31 - Oct 13 with 1200 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 08:14 - Oct 13 by Churchman |
Paragraph 1: Bobby Robson actually met the Everton people and agreed to join them. He asked them not to announce it before he’d spoken to John Cobbold. Everton didn’t keep their word and Robson saw it on a billboard.
Bobby Robson basically couldn’t go through with moving to a club that couldn’t keep their word and look John Cobbold and his brilliant, honourable directors in the eye. The conversation was very much Bobby saying he wanted to stay. JC didn’t do any persuading. That’s roughly my understanding of it.
Paragraph 2: The grumbling of the crowd was during the Man U League Cup game when Best tore us a new one in around 71/72 and before Robson assembled his first really good team. The clubs I mentioned earlier in the thread were always bigger in terms of support and reach and of course still are. League finishes and success have nothing to do with this aspect.
Paragraph 3: I’ve no idea what you are on about. Still ‘carpet bagger ownership’ makes a change from ‘debt peddlers’. Your yearning for a long gone sepia past still grinds on I see. Perhaps that’s because your understanding of what a football club actually is so woefully lacking. But Norwich eh? Still a good bet for the play offs so don’t be too disheartened. |
Once again your head in the sand approach to reality is woefully wrong and your wilful refusal to see the obvious is both amusing and pitiful. How long ago was the Rovers game when posters on here were calling for McKenna to go? Just over a year? Now they think he’s Man U material.
Did not believe what you read in airbrushed biographies would be my advice - and listen to what Cobbold had to say at the time. Everton’s announcement merely confirmed that a verbal agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.
Robson also came very close to joining Bilbao and was talked out of that too. One of the advantages of being on the cusp of winning things is that next year is always going to be better - which alas it rarely was. Robson really stayed because of his relationship with John Cobbold and his inherent decency. If you really were around in the Robson era you might recall Spurs and Man U getting relegated - and Derby and Forest achieving far more than Town. For around a decade Town were indeed the second ‘biggest’ club in the land.
Surprised a war afficianado like you doesn’t understand carpetbaggers but no matter. All I am pointing out is that the ‘big clubs’ are carefully run by number crunchers and McKenna has yet to achieve anything impressive - though if he continues in his present vein a club like Southampton or Leeds might come calling by Xmas. | |
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| Question for those around in the Robson era on 10:43 - Oct 13 with 1198 views | OldFart71 |
As a mad Town fan in the Robson era I can honestly say It didn't cross my mind that he would go anywhere else. When he went to the England job he had done everything possible at Ipswich. Kieran hasn't as yet. Although to a certain extent he is in the spotlight and may be in the sights of a few other clubs so far all he has achieved is to get a reasonably large club out of the third tier of English football. Nothing on the scale of Robson. Kieran has time on his side and why would he go to a struggling club in the Championship or even one in the Premier League which could damage his credentials. He has in ITFC everything a manager needs at the moment, decent wages, excellent owners and great backup of a CEO and backroom staff who he hand picked. | | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 10:55 - Oct 13 with 1188 views | monty_radio |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 09:23 - Oct 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
As I recall, it took Robson a good 3 years to really establish himself and it wasn't until 73 that we started to see that something big was taking shape. In those first years, there were lots of calls to get rid of Robson, and he even had a fight in the dressing room with Bill Baxter. Allegedly. In comparison, what McKenna has achieved here is lightning speed and the whole dressing room are totally bought in. |
Though August 72 started us off with a bang, beating Man U away, and that season, with the emergence of a certain K Beattie at 18, then continued apace. | |
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| Question for those around in the Robson era on 11:00 - Oct 13 with 1186 views | Radlett_blue |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 13:29 - Oct 12 by Keno |
There was this story around him calling off a move to Everton
"In the summer of 1977, Everton missed out on the best boss they never had ? a man who would have suited Everton and he knew it. Approached no more than four times, Bobby Robson never became Everton manager despite even accepting the job.
?We agreed a 10-year deal. It was the original offer I couldn?t refuse ? and I didn?t,? said Robson. However, after Sir John Moores made the deal public despite Robson?s request not to, the then Ipswich Town boss ripped up what he descried as ?a rather large cheque? and thus, he never became Everton manager.
Four times Everton tried to land Robson. Four times they failed. Indeed, what he said about the club showed just what the Blues had missed out on: ?Let?s face it, Everton are a magnificent club, every bit as big as Liverpool and success would elevate it to the stars. The club is one of the gems in the English crown." |
Yes, Robson flirted with Everton over the years & also Sunderland (an odd one for a Newcastle supporter). He was no fool & allowed these flirtations to be used to obtain better contractual terms from the Cobbolds. In fairness, Robson only left for the England job for patriotic reasons & I think he may have actually taken a pay cut when he moved. |  |
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| Question for those around in the Robson era on 12:57 - Oct 13 with 1165 views | Churchman |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 10:31 - Oct 13 by ElephantintheRoom |
Once again your head in the sand approach to reality is woefully wrong and your wilful refusal to see the obvious is both amusing and pitiful. How long ago was the Rovers game when posters on here were calling for McKenna to go? Just over a year? Now they think he’s Man U material.
Did not believe what you read in airbrushed biographies would be my advice - and listen to what Cobbold had to say at the time. Everton’s announcement merely confirmed that a verbal agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.
Robson also came very close to joining Bilbao and was talked out of that too. One of the advantages of being on the cusp of winning things is that next year is always going to be better - which alas it rarely was. Robson really stayed because of his relationship with John Cobbold and his inherent decency. If you really were around in the Robson era you might recall Spurs and Man U getting relegated - and Derby and Forest achieving far more than Town. For around a decade Town were indeed the second ‘biggest’ club in the land.
Surprised a war afficianado like you doesn’t understand carpetbaggers but no matter. All I am pointing out is that the ‘big clubs’ are carefully run by number crunchers and McKenna has yet to achieve anything impressive - though if he continues in his present vein a club like Southampton or Leeds might come calling by Xmas. |
1. Not every poster on here was calling for McKenna to go. Just the usual suspects. What relevance that has, I’ve no idea.
2. Re Everton’s approach, I believe from what I remember and have read that my take on it is not far out. That you choose to put your spin on it is fairly typical of what you do. Other approaches? I didn’t comment because I don’t know enough about them.
3. Yes, I remember the woes of Man U and Spurs. Can’t see the relevance. They were still bigger clubs and considered so at the time. In any case, I don’t get the big club stuff anyway.
4. Derby won two league titles, Forest the league, European Cup and a few league cups. In trophy terms they were more successful. But that does not diminish the achievements of Ipswich Town at that time in the way you are so keen to do.
5. I happen to understand the term carpetbagger and its origins and I see no relevance whatsoever to Gamechanger and their purchase of Ipswich Town.
6. I am not a ‘war aficionado’. I happen to be interested in all history including military and am reasonably well read. There are many on here and beyond that know far more than me and I’m always keen to learn. But not from you.
7. Head in the sand approach? - not for me to say. But whatever my approach might be, I like to think it is more balanced, realistic and open minded than your peculiarly bitter, negative, one eyed, hate filled view of so many things, not least all things Ipswich Town.
I don’t know what you get from posting on here. OTIB, WOTB, Camb Utd may provide you with more happiness that you clearly so sorely need. | | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 20:33 - Oct 13 with 1111 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 15:17 - Oct 12 by Churchman |
There was no social media and by today’s standards little news coverage of poaching managers etc. in fact, very little was seen or heard of managers by todays standards. With the exception of Shankly and later Clough they sort of kept themselves to themselves. A few words on match of the day sometimes was about it.
Obviously the big names were known to mee at a young age - Bertie Mee, Nicholson, Joe Mercer, Revie, Shankly, Dave Sexton at Chelsea, then Robson and Clough, but I guess the latter did the most to increase their profile as he was one of the first Pundits (Poland at Wembley).
Managers at successful clubs tended to be there a long time and when Derby lost a relatively young Clough and Taylor it was a surprise. It was said at the time that Robson had the best job in football. Regardless, he was ambitious and nearly took the Everton job.
However, being able to build a football club up without interference was rare even back then and there were no better people to work for than the Cobbolds, even if you did have to sacrifice your liver. It must have been a fun place to be.
Your assessment of the bigger clubs of the time is about right though you’d have to add Leeds, Man City and Spurs to that. Villa for much of the 70s were in the second or third division. Clubs like Derby, Forest, Ipswich were mid sized clubs over achieving. I guess the same could be said for Wolves, Burnley and co 15 years earlier. |
Tommy Docherty at Man Utd and Malcolm Allison at Man City were "characters", and Don Revie a veritable gobshte.
Ally McLeod made a big splash as Scotland manager with some Barry Fry like talking up of his chances. He had a very good squad, and had the 78 World Cup been in Europe would have had a shot. It wasn't. It was in Argentina, and let's just say that McLeod lacked Kieran McKenna's meticulous eye for detail, and failed to prepare for all of the implications of that. | | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 20:55 - Oct 13 with 1108 views | gosblue |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 07:47 - Oct 13 by ElephantintheRoom |
He was regularly approached - Bilbao twice I seem to remember, Barcelona and he allegedly agreed to join Everton before Cobbold talked him out of it.
After the Town ´supporters’ called for him to be sacked there weren’t really any ‘bigger clubs’ apart from perhaps Liverpool in terms of league finishes - even if Town usually tripped themselves up in cups. Europe seemed to Citicorp and more highly paid at the time.
McKenna is a bit different. He hasn’t achieved anything other than a very expensive second place in the third division and has had a good dozen games in the second division. In an era of stat analysis and US carpetbagger ownership I suspect the number crunchers at ´bigger clubs’ such as Leeds and Southampton are yet to be convinced - and anything higher in the pyramid is wishful thinking at present. |
‘Very expensive second place in the third division’ blx
We built a Championship side on the cheap that is surpassing the expectations of even the most optimistic Town fans. We are about 17 points from safety after just 11 games with the odds on a top 6 finish or better getting shorter and shorter. | | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 21:12 - Oct 13 with 1099 views | Churchman |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 20:33 - Oct 13 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Tommy Docherty at Man Utd and Malcolm Allison at Man City were "characters", and Don Revie a veritable gobshte.
Ally McLeod made a big splash as Scotland manager with some Barry Fry like talking up of his chances. He had a very good squad, and had the 78 World Cup been in Europe would have had a shot. It wasn't. It was in Argentina, and let's just say that McLeod lacked Kieran McKenna's meticulous eye for detail, and failed to prepare for all of the implications of that. |
True! They certainly were characters. Venables in 78 was too.
Ally McLeod really was full of the brown stuff. By the time he’d pumped himself, the team and his country up I thought that they were going to re-do Bannockburn, Stirling Bridge and conquer the world. We’re on the March with Ally’s Army!
They then stank the place out against Iran and some other no mark team before declaring themselves early world champions by beating Holland then clambering on the early plane home. It was funny, but given dismal England failed to even get there, not that funny. | | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 21:51 - Oct 13 with 1087 views | Radlett_blue |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 20:33 - Oct 13 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Tommy Docherty at Man Utd and Malcolm Allison at Man City were "characters", and Don Revie a veritable gobshte.
Ally McLeod made a big splash as Scotland manager with some Barry Fry like talking up of his chances. He had a very good squad, and had the 78 World Cup been in Europe would have had a shot. It wasn't. It was in Argentina, and let's just say that McLeod lacked Kieran McKenna's meticulous eye for detail, and failed to prepare for all of the implications of that. |
Docherty had some success, but he was an old fashioned, mouthy manager. Allison rather similar. Both were considered excellent young coaches, but they both got caught up in their own hubris.
Revie was totally different - an intense character who spent years building a club as a family at Leeds, with much success, but he was clueless as England manager, selecting an incredible number of players. | |
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| Question for those around in the Robson era on 22:13 - Oct 13 with 1069 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 21:12 - Oct 13 by Churchman |
True! They certainly were characters. Venables in 78 was too.
Ally McLeod really was full of the brown stuff. By the time he’d pumped himself, the team and his country up I thought that they were going to re-do Bannockburn, Stirling Bridge and conquer the world. We’re on the March with Ally’s Army!
They then stank the place out against Iran and some other no mark team before declaring themselves early world champions by beating Holland then clambering on the early plane home. It was funny, but given dismal England failed to even get there, not that funny. |
The other team they played was Peru, and McLeod made plenty of comments suggesting that they couldn't be any good because he hadn't heard of any of them.
They were the reigning Copa America Champions, McLeod hadn't done any homework on their players, and they were playing them in South America.
Scotland lost 3-1. | | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 22:39 - Oct 13 with 1021 views | Churchman |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 22:13 - Oct 13 by ArnoldMoorhen |
The other team they played was Peru, and McLeod made plenty of comments suggesting that they couldn't be any good because he hadn't heard of any of them.
They were the reigning Copa America Champions, McLeod hadn't done any homework on their players, and they were playing them in South America.
Scotland lost 3-1. |
Thanks Arnold. I knew it wasn’t one of the big hitters. Ironically, Scotland had some really top players during that period. People like Kenny Dalglish, Souness, Gemmill would have got into many other sides of the time. The goalie wouldn’t have - they always seemed to have a chocolate wristed mug between the sticks before the late and excellent Andy Goram came along. | | | |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 08:44 - Oct 14 with 963 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Question for those around in the Robson era on 10:55 - Oct 13 by monty_radio |
Though August 72 started us off with a bang, beating Man U away, and that season, with the emergence of a certain K Beattie at 18, then continued apace. |
Yes indeed, IIRC that was Beattie's debut at Old Trafford. He asked Bobby Charlton for his autograph at the end of the match! | |
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