| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned 18:17 - Oct 16 with 6354 views | WeWereZombies |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67122609
Sort of glad that I have never responded to those requests that get splashed across the bottom of the article asking for money to keep journalism independent and free. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 07:56 - Oct 17 with 2108 views | DJR |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 07:01 - Oct 17 by ElephantintheRoom |
He was on a final warning was he not, having had another not very funny and contentious cartoon pulled in recent weeks
Perhaps they’ve decided to go for a more amusing cartoonists with a more juvenile sense of humour to suit their readershio |
Political satire does not have to be funny. But I challenge anyone to view the following cartoon of his and think it is not both bitingly satirical and extremely funny.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=9Lmu9yEt&id=AD21D2 |  | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 08:02 - Oct 17 with 2086 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 21:34 - Oct 16 by Darth_Koont |
Well said.
Je suis Steve Bell moi aussi. |
Didn’t have time to elaborate last night but want to add that there’s a hysteria around this (and as you allude to a certain fundamentalism) that’s always coming from those who want to shut down and dismiss uncomfortable truths.
This cartoon is not antisemitic in intent and would never even get close to that threshold. The only way is for someone to be looking for offence and to frame it as Shylock giving his pound of flesh despite the intended framing re: the LBJ and Vietnam even referenced on the image. And then to introduce it with that antisemitic framing to fuel the spread and the outrage.
It’s a common bad faith tactic online and even on here. But, as I say, this is about shutting down and dismissing the debate in an already lop-sided public discourse in favour of an ally who has illegally occupied and oppressed a people for decades while the UK has nodded along. We can and should wake up to the parallels with US-Vietnam or indeed apartheid South Africa or be condemned to repeat the same mistakes. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 08:13 - Oct 17 with 2049 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 07:54 - Oct 17 by Steve_M |
Rowson at least thought deeply about why his cartoon had caused such offence and has subsequently made a genuine apology.
Bell has just doubled down, denying any antisemitism. As pointed out elsewhere on this thread this isn't the first example from him recently. |
Maybe that's because there isn't any! |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 08:47 - Oct 17 with 2002 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 08:13 - Oct 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Maybe that's because there isn't any! |
I’m clearly no Merchant of Venice expert as I thought it was Shylock giving the pound of flesh — but of course it was Shylock who was asking for the pound of flesh as an antisemitically portrayed loan shark.
So how does it even work to frame the cartoon this way? | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 08:52 - Oct 17 with 1986 views | Herbivore |
I can see why the Guardian chose to pull the cartoon but sacking him (well, not renewing his contract) seems a bit over the top given his explanation of the context. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 09:01 - Oct 17 with 1968 views | DJR |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 08:47 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont |
I’m clearly no Merchant of Venice expert as I thought it was Shylock giving the pound of flesh — but of course it was Shylock who was asking for the pound of flesh as an antisemitically portrayed loan shark.
So how does it even work to frame the cartoon this way? |
Bell retweeted a defender arguing that “the alleged Shakespearean analogy in the message hardly fits the political message of the cartoon, except possibly to someone who is ignorant of both” and himself added: “Exactly. And why on earth is he wearing boxing gloves?”
I might add that I abhor antisemitism but I also have grave misgivings about people being accused of antisemitism for things which are not antisemitic. My post a week or so ago about Jewish Labour Party members being charged with antisemitism, or having to undergo antisemitism training, illustrates the most absurd result of this recent tendency [Post edited 17 Oct 2023 9:04]
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 09:40 - Oct 17 with 1918 views | Ryorry |
I think sacking Bell (an unnecessary over-reaction imho), given there's been friction between him/Editorship for quite some time, may be as much about the Guardian's finances as anything.
Dwindling readership, struggling to retain their obviously high-quality journalists when people don't volunteer to pay them an annual fee which is extremely reasonable (I pay £50 p/a) but they still don't impose a paywall; & no doubt it's the go-to paper for many, many thousands of Jewish people in the UK.
Like others, I can't see anti-Semitism in the cartoon - it's a critique of Netanyahu & Israel's politics/policies - real schoolchild error by The Guardian, which they should be embarrassed by & ashamed of.
Will miss Steve Bell's contributions to the Guardian hugely. R.I.P. the 'If ...' strip, which was my fav. bit of the paper for years. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 09:59 - Oct 17 with 1878 views | chicoazul |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 20:53 - Oct 16 by redrickstuhaart |
Thank you for your incisive and nuanced contribution to a difficult issue. |
It was Shylock who asked for the pound of flesh btw, that seems to have passed a lot of people by, most especially whoever spiked the cartoon. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 10:55 - Oct 17 with 1825 views | baxterbasics |
Idiots.
They could have just said "no we 'aint publishing that, try again please"
I'm against this rubbish whichever end of the spectrum they are on. |  |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 12:42 - Oct 17 with 1757 views | WeWereZombies |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 10:55 - Oct 17 by baxterbasics |
Idiots.
They could have just said "no we 'aint publishing that, try again please"
I'm against this rubbish whichever end of the spectrum they are on. |
Although I started this thread as a dig at The Guardian I don't think I would call their editor an idiot, especially in light of the shootings in Brussels which may have been carried out by Islamic State against Swedes because of Sweden's free speech line. 'But Bell's cartoon is not anti-Islamic' you might say and I would counter that by pointing out that it is not just Muslims that can veer off into ultra extremist violence as the stabbing of the six year old in the United States has shown. There is a public safety element to The Guardian's stance as well as a political stance (which might have been taken to disguise fear of reprisals.) | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 15:44 - Oct 17 with 1678 views | Ryorry |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 12:42 - Oct 17 by WeWereZombies |
Although I started this thread as a dig at The Guardian I don't think I would call their editor an idiot, especially in light of the shootings in Brussels which may have been carried out by Islamic State against Swedes because of Sweden's free speech line. 'But Bell's cartoon is not anti-Islamic' you might say and I would counter that by pointing out that it is not just Muslims that can veer off into ultra extremist violence as the stabbing of the six year old in the United States has shown. There is a public safety element to The Guardian's stance as well as a political stance (which might have been taken to disguise fear of reprisals.) |
That's a good point re public safety, which I hadn't considered. | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 17:23 - Oct 17 with 1620 views | redrickstuhaart |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 15:44 - Oct 17 by Ryorry |
That's a good point re public safety, which I hadn't considered. |
Je Suis Charlie. |  | | |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 09:49 - Oct 18 with 1505 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 18:44 - Oct 16 by Illinoisblue |
Bell’s defence doesn’t sound overly convincing but still surprised they’ve sacked him. |
Sounds pretty clear, convincing and straightforward to me. Absolutely ridiculous to sack someone after 40 years of service... for that?!?
Someone's doing mental somersaults to make that cartoon antisemitic. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 10:13 - Oct 18 with 1455 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 09:49 - Oct 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Sounds pretty clear, convincing and straightforward to me. Absolutely ridiculous to sack someone after 40 years of service... for that?!?
Someone's doing mental somersaults to make that cartoon antisemitic. |
You can be a critic of Israel and its government as long as it’s banal both-sidesing criticism.
Any criticism that highlights the underlying cause and injustice of an ongoing illegal and frequently criminal occupation and oppression of Palestinians and it WILL be characterised as antisemitism by those policing/shutting down the debate and fighting the online propaganda war.
That’s been the reality for too long — but it’s been getting worse and worse over the past couple of decades. | |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 10:16 - Oct 18 with 1443 views | lowhouseblue |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 09:49 - Oct 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Sounds pretty clear, convincing and straightforward to me. Absolutely ridiculous to sack someone after 40 years of service... for that?!?
Someone's doing mental somersaults to make that cartoon antisemitic. |
this is very sad. i struggle see what he has done with this cartoon which goes beyond satire. i like bell as a cartoonist, while disagreeing with him on lots of things, and the guardian reaction seems wrong. there must have been a wider falling out. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 10:27 - Oct 18 with 1398 views | DJR |
| I'm not a Guardian reader but the sacking of Steve Bell still has me concerned on 10:16 - Oct 18 by lowhouseblue |
this is very sad. i struggle see what he has done with this cartoon which goes beyond satire. i like bell as a cartoonist, while disagreeing with him on lots of things, and the guardian reaction seems wrong. there must have been a wider falling out. |
I think I remember him describing himself an old lefty, something that these days doesn't probably fit with the more centrist Guardian, and the rot set in when they cancelled his If cartoons a couple of years ago.
But as someone who likes the SNP, how can you not laugh at the following?
It apparently led to lots of complaints by SNP supporters, which just goes to show how po-faced people are these days. [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 10:31]
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