| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... 05:21 - Oct 23 with 2696 views | IPS_wich |
I'm not going to get dragged into another crapfest about whether we are or are not good enough to survive etc.
My main observation about Saturday was we are a side that need a shot of confidence that only a win can bring. Many of the mistakes we made were pretty basic (Clarke blazing over, the Burns WTF moment for their first goal - to name bit two) and clearly down to the mental side of the game rather than the ability side of the game.
So - here's to a lucky deflected off the defender's ar$e 95th minute winner on Saturday. I don't care how we play, we just need to get the 'winless' monkey off our back. [Post edited 23 Oct 2024 7:14]
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 06:35 - Oct 23 with 2588 views | Blue_Heath |
Any win, anywhere, anyway, anyhow will do me at the moment. | | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 07:26 - Oct 23 with 2495 views | ArnieM |
To get a scrappy win (I agree btw), McKenna needs to consider, "defending" more as a priority, then attacking. If we can't defend, and we can't with our current fit back line, we have no hope. [Post edited 23 Oct 2024 7:26]
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 07:43 - Oct 23 with 2434 views | Fixed_It |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 07:26 - Oct 23 by ArnieM |
To get a scrappy win (I agree btw), McKenna needs to consider, "defending" more as a priority, then attacking. If we can't defend, and we can't with our current fit back line, we have no hope. [Post edited 23 Oct 2024 7:26]
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Brighton away. |  |
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 09:14 - Oct 23 with 2298 views | IPS_wich |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 07:26 - Oct 23 by ArnieM |
To get a scrappy win (I agree btw), McKenna needs to consider, "defending" more as a priority, then attacking. If we can't defend, and we can't with our current fit back line, we have no hope. [Post edited 23 Oct 2024 7:26]
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At least seven of the goals we have conceded are down to individual mistakes that have no relationship to our defensive structure - most of these being mistakes that you would be disappointed if a League 1 player made:
- Davies' needless tackle to give away the penalty at City
- Muric brain fades x 2 at City
- Greaves' clearance against Villa
- Phillips giving ball away in first minute against WHam
- Johnson back pass against WHam
- Burns' wtf moment against Everton
That's before you get to into poor positioning/defending for goals such as Liverpool's first, Saints' goal, Fulham's equaliser, Villa's second, WHam's third, Everton's second.
That's the majority of the goals we've conceded this season which you cannot attribute to us being too attack minded - so I don't know how this is about how Mckenna is setting us up.
Also - given we've had the fewest shots on goal out of any side (and the lowest XG) - it's hard to make a case that we're prioritising all out attack. If that was the case then our season would be totally f***ed because we're not being very effective for a side prioritising attack.
I'm convinced this is all about the cumulative pressure of not having won yet. Everton were just as flaky at the start of the season, but that one win a couple of games ago has clearly done wonders for their self-belief. | | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 09:19 - Oct 23 with 2272 views | wrightsrightglove |
It really doesn’t matter where the win comes from so I’ll take a smash and grab all day long. But I think to do that we’re going to have to be a lot more physical. Szmodics in on the left, Taylor into a midfield 3, hutch on the right, Clarke at right back and we might stand more of a chance of grinding out a result | | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 10:42 - Oct 23 with 2165 views | glasso |
I agree about the confidence thing, but remember where the team/squad (actually, the CLUB) was at when KM took over? No discernible style of play, a mess from top to bottom, on a seasons-long losing streak, dejected fanbase, crap ownership...
It's not like KM inherited a great team, got lucky and sailed through. So when I see some of our players a bit down, or our style not really gelling, I just think that KM's been here before - far worse, in fact.
He knows how to boost morale, he knows how to bring a group of players together, he knows how to get everybody pulling in the same direction and playing his football.
It might be that it takes too long and we end up being relegated because of a poor stat (it's much easier to do all of that when you're up against Accrington Stanley at the weekend, than Manchester City), but it's not really panic stations yet. We'll be fine in the long run. | | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 11:08 - Oct 23 with 2094 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 09:14 - Oct 23 by IPS_wich |
At least seven of the goals we have conceded are down to individual mistakes that have no relationship to our defensive structure - most of these being mistakes that you would be disappointed if a League 1 player made:
- Davies' needless tackle to give away the penalty at City
- Muric brain fades x 2 at City
- Greaves' clearance against Villa
- Phillips giving ball away in first minute against WHam
- Johnson back pass against WHam
- Burns' wtf moment against Everton
That's before you get to into poor positioning/defending for goals such as Liverpool's first, Saints' goal, Fulham's equaliser, Villa's second, WHam's third, Everton's second.
That's the majority of the goals we've conceded this season which you cannot attribute to us being too attack minded - so I don't know how this is about how Mckenna is setting us up.
Also - given we've had the fewest shots on goal out of any side (and the lowest XG) - it's hard to make a case that we're prioritising all out attack. If that was the case then our season would be totally f***ed because we're not being very effective for a side prioritising attack.
I'm convinced this is all about the cumulative pressure of not having won yet. Everton were just as flaky at the start of the season, but that one win a couple of games ago has clearly done wonders for their self-belief. |
Its interesting when you break those down, and I personally think its down to the following
Muric, doesn't fill me with confidence, and quite a lot of other supporters, not there will be players who feel confident, but also some that don't. How many times so far this season have we seen Greaves play himself into trouble rather than passing back to the keeper, same with Wolfy. Then we have the Morsy ball, in the champ it was slightly slower, not slow but slower, Morsy had time to pick up the ball, either turn or pass to other defenders, that pass is not on 90% of the time now, yet Muric doesn't find him in that 10% where it is, he finds him in the 90% when it isnt, and he needs to take responsbility and send the ball elsewhere.
For me, he's a big part of our failings so far through lack of confidence in the keeper.
2nd. Greaves
Wow what a signing, played well, a rock, then O Shea and Clarke came into the side, suddenly, Greaves looks dodgy, why? picking up the slack from O'shea? no, for me he's being dragged towards Davis to much as Clarke isn't a great 2nd man to help Davis out. You look at some of the recent goals conceded form the left side where Greaves played and so did Clarke, Greaves coming across rather than being central and picking up his man.
Communication... how much do we get at the back? did anyone say to Burns clear it, did anyone tell Oshea to head it out, it's easy for us to say what he should have done, but sometimes that shout needs to come from those around him.. are they doing that?
I actually think our biggest problem and one which doesn't seem to the changing anytime soon are quite obvious tbh
Clarke - attacking he needs to do what he does best, hug touchline, be a grealish, so for that to happen we need to keep davis back and not rely on him being our main creator
huchinson, being eaten alive in the middle, causes more problems out wide right where we're no longer getting burns into space so he's redundant playing at the moment.
Split our cm's up so we have at least one of them in the other half of the pitch, or even go with 3 midfielders
I don't agree with the development of Clarke into something he's not been, this isn't the u23s and we have time to wait,
Delap, take away the goals, which whilst you can't ignore, he's not actually helping our play around him, bringing others into the game, so lets try Hirst for a bit, work with someone who knows how to play with those around him, holds the ball and understands the press.
Whilst here, the press, we've dropped off, we started well with our pressing, but lately it's pss poor, you invite teams onto you, you;ve got issues, we aren't good enough to contain sides, so lets try and make them make balls that they don't want to play.
All in all, selections aren't helping us, the way we're playing isn't helping us, and across the pitch there's issues that need addressing.
So yet i'd bring Walton back in, give defence a bit of confidence, i'd like to see some round pegs in round holes.
If we can't or won't address pass our halfway line, then we can't expect the defenders not to make mistakes, the pressure is to much. |  |
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 12:29 - Oct 23 with 1960 views | LA_Tractor_Boy |
100% this.
Every season even in the PL there are unexpected results. Forest beating Liverpool at Anfield is an example.
I can't think of a better time to get an unexpected result than on Saturday.
COYB! | | | |
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 13:15 - Oct 23 with 1829 views | ITFCSG |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 11:08 - Oct 23 by FrimleyBlue |
Its interesting when you break those down, and I personally think its down to the following
Muric, doesn't fill me with confidence, and quite a lot of other supporters, not there will be players who feel confident, but also some that don't. How many times so far this season have we seen Greaves play himself into trouble rather than passing back to the keeper, same with Wolfy. Then we have the Morsy ball, in the champ it was slightly slower, not slow but slower, Morsy had time to pick up the ball, either turn or pass to other defenders, that pass is not on 90% of the time now, yet Muric doesn't find him in that 10% where it is, he finds him in the 90% when it isnt, and he needs to take responsbility and send the ball elsewhere.
For me, he's a big part of our failings so far through lack of confidence in the keeper.
2nd. Greaves
Wow what a signing, played well, a rock, then O Shea and Clarke came into the side, suddenly, Greaves looks dodgy, why? picking up the slack from O'shea? no, for me he's being dragged towards Davis to much as Clarke isn't a great 2nd man to help Davis out. You look at some of the recent goals conceded form the left side where Greaves played and so did Clarke, Greaves coming across rather than being central and picking up his man.
Communication... how much do we get at the back? did anyone say to Burns clear it, did anyone tell Oshea to head it out, it's easy for us to say what he should have done, but sometimes that shout needs to come from those around him.. are they doing that?
I actually think our biggest problem and one which doesn't seem to the changing anytime soon are quite obvious tbh
Clarke - attacking he needs to do what he does best, hug touchline, be a grealish, so for that to happen we need to keep davis back and not rely on him being our main creator
huchinson, being eaten alive in the middle, causes more problems out wide right where we're no longer getting burns into space so he's redundant playing at the moment.
Split our cm's up so we have at least one of them in the other half of the pitch, or even go with 3 midfielders
I don't agree with the development of Clarke into something he's not been, this isn't the u23s and we have time to wait,
Delap, take away the goals, which whilst you can't ignore, he's not actually helping our play around him, bringing others into the game, so lets try Hirst for a bit, work with someone who knows how to play with those around him, holds the ball and understands the press.
Whilst here, the press, we've dropped off, we started well with our pressing, but lately it's pss poor, you invite teams onto you, you;ve got issues, we aren't good enough to contain sides, so lets try and make them make balls that they don't want to play.
All in all, selections aren't helping us, the way we're playing isn't helping us, and across the pitch there's issues that need addressing.
So yet i'd bring Walton back in, give defence a bit of confidence, i'd like to see some round pegs in round holes.
If we can't or won't address pass our halfway line, then we can't expect the defenders not to make mistakes, the pressure is to much. |
Totally agree with your 1st point re Muric. Plenty of people saying Muric has been scapegoated etc. and not liable for our past 2 defeats. BUT if the defence has no confidence with the keeper behind him, they will try a more dangerous approach of hacking the ball away instead of a simple pass back to the keeper. Look at the body language of our defenders playing in front of him they are scared sh*t of passing back for the fear of Muric c0cking up. Chain of causation - once again ends with Muric. I’d give Walton a run in the team, didn’t do too bad v Liverpool didn’t he? | | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 13:27 - Oct 23 with 1781 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 09:14 - Oct 23 by IPS_wich |
At least seven of the goals we have conceded are down to individual mistakes that have no relationship to our defensive structure - most of these being mistakes that you would be disappointed if a League 1 player made:
- Davies' needless tackle to give away the penalty at City
- Muric brain fades x 2 at City
- Greaves' clearance against Villa
- Phillips giving ball away in first minute against WHam
- Johnson back pass against WHam
- Burns' wtf moment against Everton
That's before you get to into poor positioning/defending for goals such as Liverpool's first, Saints' goal, Fulham's equaliser, Villa's second, WHam's third, Everton's second.
That's the majority of the goals we've conceded this season which you cannot attribute to us being too attack minded - so I don't know how this is about how Mckenna is setting us up.
Also - given we've had the fewest shots on goal out of any side (and the lowest XG) - it's hard to make a case that we're prioritising all out attack. If that was the case then our season would be totally f***ed because we're not being very effective for a side prioritising attack.
I'm convinced this is all about the cumulative pressure of not having won yet. Everton were just as flaky at the start of the season, but that one win a couple of games ago has clearly done wonders for their self-belief. |
Individual mistakes can be a consequence of systems, team selection and / or instructions.
If a player is unfamiliar with his role, his partner or his instruction this can lead to pressure, nerves and indecisiveness... resulting in a mistake.
I'm not saying KM is to blame, but we cant just write of individual mistakes as anomalies, they can be a consequence of wider issues.
90%* of all goals probably have an individual mistake in them.
*completely random figure plucked from thin air. 😂 [Post edited 23 Oct 2024 13:27]
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 13:29 - Oct 23 with 1764 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 09:14 - Oct 23 by IPS_wich |
At least seven of the goals we have conceded are down to individual mistakes that have no relationship to our defensive structure - most of these being mistakes that you would be disappointed if a League 1 player made:
- Davies' needless tackle to give away the penalty at City
- Muric brain fades x 2 at City
- Greaves' clearance against Villa
- Phillips giving ball away in first minute against WHam
- Johnson back pass against WHam
- Burns' wtf moment against Everton
That's before you get to into poor positioning/defending for goals such as Liverpool's first, Saints' goal, Fulham's equaliser, Villa's second, WHam's third, Everton's second.
That's the majority of the goals we've conceded this season which you cannot attribute to us being too attack minded - so I don't know how this is about how Mckenna is setting us up.
Also - given we've had the fewest shots on goal out of any side (and the lowest XG) - it's hard to make a case that we're prioritising all out attack. If that was the case then our season would be totally f***ed because we're not being very effective for a side prioritising attack.
I'm convinced this is all about the cumulative pressure of not having won yet. Everton were just as flaky at the start of the season, but that one win a couple of games ago has clearly done wonders for their self-belief. |
Everton have played quite well for large spells this season, thats why I wasnt surprised by the loss.
Even against Bournemouth, they played really well for 87 mins.... then collapsed for 5 mins. | |
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 13:50 - Oct 23 with 1713 views | jasondozzell |
Derby away in 2013.
“We’ve burgled it,” admitted Town boss McCarthy. “I heard the sirens coming and thought ‘shut the door, the police are coming, there’s a robbery going on’! |  | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 14:39 - Oct 23 with 1615 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Read the comedian who does the next opposition blurb on Blogs
I think we’ve won just about every game on there. | |
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 16:55 - Oct 23 with 1534 views | ArnieM |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 09:14 - Oct 23 by IPS_wich |
At least seven of the goals we have conceded are down to individual mistakes that have no relationship to our defensive structure - most of these being mistakes that you would be disappointed if a League 1 player made:
- Davies' needless tackle to give away the penalty at City
- Muric brain fades x 2 at City
- Greaves' clearance against Villa
- Phillips giving ball away in first minute against WHam
- Johnson back pass against WHam
- Burns' wtf moment against Everton
That's before you get to into poor positioning/defending for goals such as Liverpool's first, Saints' goal, Fulham's equaliser, Villa's second, WHam's third, Everton's second.
That's the majority of the goals we've conceded this season which you cannot attribute to us being too attack minded - so I don't know how this is about how Mckenna is setting us up.
Also - given we've had the fewest shots on goal out of any side (and the lowest XG) - it's hard to make a case that we're prioritising all out attack. If that was the case then our season would be totally f***ed because we're not being very effective for a side prioritising attack.
I'm convinced this is all about the cumulative pressure of not having won yet. Everton were just as flaky at the start of the season, but that one win a couple of games ago has clearly done wonders for their self-belief. |
Given we've had fewest shots than anyone else, would you advocate that KMc at least tries the previous front line of
Hirst
Broadhead
Chaplin
Hutchinson or Burns
That appeared to have a telepathic understanding at times?
Why hasn't this been considered in the last couple of games at least.
I think Delap is a helluva striker in the making v, but he doesn't ( IMHO), lead the line yet. Hold the ball up, bring other forwards around him into the game. I think we need Hirst back leading the line, working the CB's, running the around, creating space for whoever is the number 10, beit Chaplin or Szmodics , and play the likes of Omari wide right (or Delap!) And Broadhead ( or Burns?) Left.
We need to change / try something different. There's been distinct lack of energy about us over-the-counter last couple of games.
We're slow to build up play, transition from defence to attack. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe Sat v Brentford is an ideal time to flip thd coin and try somewhere not expecting.... | |
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 17:07 - Oct 23 with 1493 views | mrfixit426 |
A decent post which has unfortunately descended into another armchair football manager, 'know it all' lesson for McKenna. |  | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 17:45 - Oct 23 with 1406 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 17:07 - Oct 23 by mrfixit426 |
A decent post which has unfortunately descended into another armchair football manager, 'know it all' lesson for McKenna. |
Also known as forum users discussing what they think about the current situation.
Also a decent thread which unfortunately descended into another board policeman contributing nothing both moaning at those who dare discuss football.
You use the line a lesson for KM. Do we think KM will read twtd and think corr that bloke is right ill do that. Absolutely not. So get off your high horse and grow up.
What response do you want to the OP?
Yeah, here's to hoping for a smash and grab. End of reply. The point and discussion in that? 0.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2024 17:48]
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 17:57 - Oct 23 with 1286 views | mrfixit426 |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 17:45 - Oct 23 by FrimleyBlue |
Also known as forum users discussing what they think about the current situation.
Also a decent thread which unfortunately descended into another board policeman contributing nothing both moaning at those who dare discuss football.
You use the line a lesson for KM. Do we think KM will read twtd and think corr that bloke is right ill do that. Absolutely not. So get off your high horse and grow up.
What response do you want to the OP?
Yeah, here's to hoping for a smash and grab. End of reply. The point and discussion in that? 0.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2024 17:48]
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I agree entirely with the OP. What we don't need is YET another dissection of what is going wrong and how the manager should fix it. And yet here we are.
Again. | | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 18:00 - Oct 23 with 1265 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 17:57 - Oct 23 by mrfixit426 |
I agree entirely with the OP. What we don't need is YET another dissection of what is going wrong and how the manager should fix it. And yet here we are.
Again. |
That's what happens when people are discussing the football.
What we don't need is another poster moaning about other posts. And yet here we are. | |
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| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 18:04 - Oct 23 with 1251 views | mrfixit426 |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 18:00 - Oct 23 by FrimleyBlue |
That's what happens when people are discussing the football.
What we don't need is another poster moaning about other posts. And yet here we are. |
Maybe you should read the first line of the OP again. | | | |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 18:11 - Oct 23 with 1223 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Oh for a scrappy, smash and grab away win... on 18:04 - Oct 23 by mrfixit426 |
Maybe you should read the first line of the OP again. |
Couple things about that.
No replies have said anything about being good or not good enough to stay up.
It's also not a crapfest. A few different posters dropped in their own thoughts against a reply and that was it. ( even I'd dropped in just the 1)
Thread only went south when you popped in to bemoan them. | |
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