| I’m sure this is not an original opinion 07:48 - Oct 28 with 5673 views | chicoazul |
And forgive me if many have already made it.
Does anyone else get second season in the Prem vibes under Burley from this season? A bunch of sexy new players including a fancy new keeper coming in and undermining the ethos and patterns that got us success in the first place? Innit.
We don’t have European football to blame this time though. |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 07:50 - Oct 28 with 3622 views | chicoazul |
The only times we have been really successful as a club historically is when we have had youth players in the team combined with various weirdos and cast-offs along with a couple of judicious acquisitions. To wit; last season. | |
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| Think there is a fundamental difference to the 2001/02 season on 08:00 - Oct 28 with 3541 views | WeWereZombies |
Expectations were very high after finishing fifth in the Premier League (although our recruitment in the summer of 2001 was largely viewed as scanty and underwhelming) whereas now any sane supporter is going to be happy with finishing seventeenth and is probably still processing the impressions that the slew of summer signings have made. |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:05 - Oct 28 with 3506 views | FrimleyBlue |
After someone mentioned it. It just reminds me of the Hirst season.
Ripped apart the squad and despite some signs that we were getting somewhere it never did.
A goalkeeper who wasn't as good as the one before
Players from levels below that weren't ready for the one we were playing in
Etc |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:12 - Oct 28 with 3452 views | Churchman |
Yes. Although he didn’t bring in this number and it reminds me more of Cook’s effort where it took more than half the season for a team to emerge.
However, I understand why he did it. Keep last years team and it was Norwich @rse in the air surrender and trouser the money time or give it a go. He rightly chose the latter. The trouble is that with finances as they are and FFP we were never going to bring in people of sufficient quality. Watching the quality of Newcastle Chelsea with the sound off yesterday (in a club) really brought it home to me. Different level.
No problem with Greaves, Delap, Hutchinson who we knew or Jack Clarke who will be good for us. I could understand the rationale behind Phillips and Cajuste too. The others? Time will tell. But back to your basic point, I get what you are saying and it was my wish expressed on here before the season started that we brought in four or five, including a top keeper, to keep that team cohesion.
This isn’t a criticism of KM though - it was a bit stick or twist and he clearly had a total understanding of the PL gap, that I most certainly didn’t.
Let’s see what time brings and how the team evolves. |  | | |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:14 - Oct 28 with 3430 views | GlasgowBlue |
I’d say we have definitely made the same mistake regarding the goalkeeping situation that Burley did. |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:17 - Oct 28 with 3411 views | DarkBrandon |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:05 - Oct 28 by FrimleyBlue |
After someone mentioned it. It just reminds me of the Hirst season.
Ripped apart the squad and despite some signs that we were getting somewhere it never did.
A goalkeeper who wasn't as good as the one before
Players from levels below that weren't ready for the one we were playing in
Etc |
That thought has crossed my mind.
Essentially answering the question as to whether you can create a competitive side from the best players from the league below.
I thought we would sign a couple of seasoned, experienced PL players who while past their best could help the side. The examples from our recent history are not particularly encouraging - John Scales and Lee Chapman - but I’m still surprised we didn’t.
Edit - Obviously Phillips is very used to this level, but other than him Johnson and Tuanzebe? Good though the latter has been [Post edited 28 Oct 2024 8:19]
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:20 - Oct 28 with 3383 views | Pique |
Definitely getting Sereni vibes from Muric unfortunately. The parallels are there: a disruptive goalkeeping situation drags on through the summer, is eventually resolved and we sign a big money European keeper who is a fine shot shopper but doesn't seem able to work with his defence and never really feels like the right 'fit'. Hope Muric proves me wrong. |  | | |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:27 - Oct 28 with 3331 views | Pique |
If there is a big difference, it's that despite all the mistakes that were made in 2001/02, that team was, on paper at least, way too good to go down and to this day I'm not really sure how we managed it, especially with our mid season rally that got us back up to mid table.
Sadly (and this is no-one's fault, we've tried our best to level up under the circumstances), the same can't be said of our current squad. The Premier League is now a very different place unfortunately. | | | |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:31 - Oct 28 with 3257 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:05 - Oct 28 by FrimleyBlue |
After someone mentioned it. It just reminds me of the Hirst season.
Ripped apart the squad and despite some signs that we were getting somewhere it never did.
A goalkeeper who wasn't as good as the one before
Players from levels below that weren't ready for the one we were playing in
Etc |
It's nothing like Hirst.
McKenna HAD to bring in these players.
McKenna hasn't ripped apart the squad - fringe players have left, other than Hladky.
Hurst didn't bring in the very top players from the division below.
Hurst didn't bring in a proven player from the current level, but who had lost his way for various reasons (Philips).
Hurst didn't bring in exciting young talent from the current level's best clubs (Delap and Hutchinson).
Hurst didn't bring in top talent from abroad (Cajuste).
And you added "etc" because you couldn't think of anything else. [Post edited 28 Oct 2024 9:29]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:38 - Oct 28 with 3169 views | WeWereZombies |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:05 - Oct 28 by FrimleyBlue |
After someone mentioned it. It just reminds me of the Hirst season.
Ripped apart the squad and despite some signs that we were getting somewhere it never did.
A goalkeeper who wasn't as good as the one before
Players from levels below that weren't ready for the one we were playing in
Etc |
I never realised that George had so much influence over McKenna last season... | |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:42 - Oct 28 with 3130 views | NthQldITFC |
I get nine games into a season vibes that fans don't have the cojones to cope with a tough start after two promotions and having to incorporate a lot of new PL level players.
Not a particular dig at your post, which is mild by comparison with some.
I also get vibes that I don't have the cojones to cope with much angsty negativity!  |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:43 - Oct 28 with 3120 views | baxterbasics |
I would say they are not all that comparable.
Burley's 2nd season followed a successful 1st in the PL, so it was reasonable to expect something more than simply avoiding relegation.
This time, only the most blinkered fans would expect anything more than a struggle for survival. We have a team with very little PL experience. I can't blame KM for this, he only had so many options. Just going largely with last seasons team was never going to cut it either. Grit and determination and team spirit alone isn't enough, sadly. We'd all be criticising the club for not spending big on new players.
As for the keeper situation, sure there's an argument there. But I'd say Muric is only one small factor in where we find ourselves - albeit a visible and easy to blame one. There are goals he has prevented that Hladky probably would not have.
Had our two best defenders (so far) not been absent the last couple of games, this might be a substantially different conversation. |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:51 - Oct 28 with 3071 views | Steve_M |
I think there are two very big differences though:
1). Burley had built a team that was competitive at the top of the second division for at least three seasons before promotion whereas since McKenna has been here we've been trying to make incremental improvements in every transfer window but haven't had enough of them.
2). The gap between the top of the second division and the Premier League has grown enormously in the last twenty years, I really don't see how a team that looked weaker against any team with recent Premier League experience last year could compete without multiple additions.
Clearly we haven't got every transfer right, and the missing striker still looks the biggest failing to me, but we made that choice knowingly and the question now is whether we can form new patterns of play quickly enough to compete (some positive signs there from Saturday). |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:51 - Oct 28 with 3047 views | NedPlimpton |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:05 - Oct 28 by FrimleyBlue |
After someone mentioned it. It just reminds me of the Hirst season.
Ripped apart the squad and despite some signs that we were getting somewhere it never did.
A goalkeeper who wasn't as good as the one before
Players from levels below that weren't ready for the one we were playing in
Etc |
Without "ripping apart the squad" with the injuries we're currently carrying, we'd be looking at the likes of Jackson, Donacien and Ball making premier league starts! [Post edited 28 Oct 2024 8:52]
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:59 - Oct 28 with 2989 views | Steve_M |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:27 - Oct 28 by Pique |
If there is a big difference, it's that despite all the mistakes that were made in 2001/02, that team was, on paper at least, way too good to go down and to this day I'm not really sure how we managed it, especially with our mid season rally that got us back up to mid table.
Sadly (and this is no-one's fault, we've tried our best to level up under the circumstances), the same can't be said of our current squad. The Premier League is now a very different place unfortunately. |
Yes, that's a good point too. The only team ever to get relegated twice int he same season.
We didn't really make that much change either in 2001, but neither Sereni or Marshall were as good for our defence as Wright had been. | |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:04 - Oct 28 with 2939 views | victorysquad |
This Premier League season is a new season, never been done before under the same conditions.
We need to stop bed wetting every time we lose a game, because it will happen, many times this season.
What we need to do is turn this season into a WAR. It is a WAR us (the underdogs) and the rest of the League (+ officials) against us. The only way we will succeed this season is to fight tooth and nail each and every game. The players need to be up for it, the coaches / manager and the supporters.
I am up for the fight, are you? |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:04 - Oct 28 with 2930 views | FrimleyBlue |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:31 - Oct 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's nothing like Hirst.
McKenna HAD to bring in these players.
McKenna hasn't ripped apart the squad - fringe players have left, other than Hladky.
Hurst didn't bring in the very top players from the division below.
Hurst didn't bring in a proven player from the current level, but who had lost his way for various reasons (Philips).
Hurst didn't bring in exciting young talent from the current level's best clubs (Delap and Hutchinson).
Hurst didn't bring in top talent from abroad (Cajuste).
And you added "etc" because you couldn't think of anything else. [Post edited 28 Oct 2024 9:29]
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I added in etc coz I couldn't be bothered to write a long post to have it twisted into more than it was.
There are as you've pointed out many reasons why its not the same. I don't disagree. There are however things that are simular hence why I understand why the original poster mentioned it first and I nodded in agreement that it reminded me of that season.
Tbh it's not that deep | |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:06 - Oct 28 with 2918 views | thebooks |
Not really. I don’t think we’ve bought badly – definitely longer term signings than, say, Finidi – and, longer term, have a lot more catching up to do in terms of squad quality than Burley did. Also, Sereni actually started very well!
Lot of injuries, massive gap between where we were two seasons ago and where we are now. Lot conspiring against us at the moment.
I thought there was a lot in Saturday’s performance to suggest we could click and get a few results. Is going to be tough though. |  | | |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:11 - Oct 28 with 2832 views | Guthrum |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:51 - Oct 28 by Steve_M |
I think there are two very big differences though:
1). Burley had built a team that was competitive at the top of the second division for at least three seasons before promotion whereas since McKenna has been here we've been trying to make incremental improvements in every transfer window but haven't had enough of them.
2). The gap between the top of the second division and the Premier League has grown enormously in the last twenty years, I really don't see how a team that looked weaker against any team with recent Premier League experience last year could compete without multiple additions.
Clearly we haven't got every transfer right, and the missing striker still looks the biggest failing to me, but we made that choice knowingly and the question now is whether we can form new patterns of play quickly enough to compete (some positive signs there from Saturday). |
Not sure how short of a striker we are, with Delap currently joint 8th on the Prem goalscorers list, with a shot conversion rate better than Haaland (behind only Mbuemo, Wood and Vardy). Szmodics aslo having a couple and Hirst looking good in his first start of the campaign.
For me it's more down to things not quite having clicked yet, particularly in defence (not helped by injuries), but also in the middle-to-latter phases of attack (decisionmaking, J Clarke/Phillips finding confidence). |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:19 - Oct 28 with 2760 views | J2BLUE |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:05 - Oct 28 by FrimleyBlue |
After someone mentioned it. It just reminds me of the Hirst season.
Ripped apart the squad and despite some signs that we were getting somewhere it never did.
A goalkeeper who wasn't as good as the one before
Players from levels below that weren't ready for the one we were playing in
Etc |
lol |  |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:21 - Oct 28 with 2749 views | IPS_wich |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 08:42 - Oct 28 by NthQldITFC |
I get nine games into a season vibes that fans don't have the cojones to cope with a tough start after two promotions and having to incorporate a lot of new PL level players.
Not a particular dig at your post, which is mild by comparison with some.
I also get vibes that I don't have the cojones to cope with much angsty negativity! |
I agree. I think what so many people are missing is the fact that over the last eight seasons more than half of the teams promoted to PL went back down - add to that the fact that none of them had been promoted back to back - and what we're experiencing is entirely and sadly reasonably predictable.
What's happened is we've let the euphoria of two incredible seasons cloud the reality that surviving in the PL is bl00dy hard. I know I was telling anyone who would listen that I thought 12th/13th wasn't out of the question!! More fool me.
Trying to draw comparisons with the 2001/02 season or the Hurst reign is ridiculous.
We spent over 100m in the summer and many external commentators noted that we'd built a squad that would likely give us a great platform for PL survival in 2026/27 - in that we've optimised our chances of bouncing back after relegation with some saleable assets and a Championship super team to be promoted straight back.
If we do go down, combining parachute payments with a likely 150million in sales for just Davies, Delap, Hutchinson and Greaves - we can be even stronger. And I don't mean we aspire to be a yo-yo club, rather we need time to establish ourselves. Both McKenna and Ashton said in the summer that the downside to back to back promotions was having to accelerate some of our foundational plans - including (re)establishing our international scouting system (the main reason we didn't buy from overseas).
That doesn't stop the optimist in me thinking we can still go on a run and stay up this year, but with the cold reality of Premier League football starting to sink in, we need to understand that if our owners, CE and Manager can plot their way through the worst case scenario of relegation then as a club we are in a really strong position for sustained success in the medium to long term.
Sadly, it appears few fans are prepared to play the long game (if that's what is needed). | | | |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:24 - Oct 28 with 2717 views | FrimleyBlue |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:19 - Oct 28 by J2BLUE |
lol |
Another excellent reply to one of my posts j2. And none to others.
Careful now. You're getting very stalkerish like one of the previous now banned posters. You used to be better. Sad times | |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:24 - Oct 28 with 2727 views | Guthrum |
The thing about the 'keeper situation is that Hladky decided to leave. He wasn't released or forced to depart. Simply didn't like the new contract on offer, despite the chance of Prem football. So he had to be replaced. | |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:26 - Oct 28 with 2695 views | J2BLUE |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:24 - Oct 28 by FrimleyBlue |
Another excellent reply to one of my posts j2. And none to others.
Careful now. You're getting very stalkerish like one of the previous now banned posters. You used to be better. Sad times |
Don't give me that crap. I told you a couple of weeks ago you were slipping back into being constantly negative. Now you've proven me right.
I just really don't get it. It you can't at least try and enjoy it now when can you enjoy it? | |
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| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:37 - Oct 28 with 2619 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I’m sure this is not an original opinion on 09:04 - Oct 28 by FrimleyBlue |
I added in etc coz I couldn't be bothered to write a long post to have it twisted into more than it was.
There are as you've pointed out many reasons why its not the same. I don't disagree. There are however things that are simular hence why I understand why the original poster mentioned it first and I nodded in agreement that it reminded me of that season.
Tbh it's not that deep |
The original poster didn't mention it first, it was you equating now to Hurst. The OP's about Burley's second season.
And I've literally set out why Hurst's season is not comparable to now. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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