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The trend to excuse Trump voters 13:34 - Nov 13 with 5485 viewsreusersfreekicks

I am not at ease with this to be honest. Seems to be in vogue to blame the democrats for not doing enough to appeal to blue collar workers and that we can't blame those who voted for Trump.
But what about personal responsibility and awareness?
It's widely in the public domain that Trump has so many flaws to put it lightly, not least launching a violent attack on the US seat of government and doing his utmost to destabilise democracy. His endless lies don't take much seeing through. And his plain vindictiveness and bullying.
There seems to be extreme views that those voting for him are really stupid and ignorant on one hand or that they are acting entirely logical on the other?
Yes some maybe many are ignorant. But so so many more aren't, I hope, and they have knowingly voted for him to (a) be the republican candidate and (b) to be president.
They are culpable for what is to come imo.

Just heard some of his new appointments - those Palestine supporting voters who switched to Trump in anger at Biden are in for a nasty shock - though it shouldn't be one.

[Post edited 13 Nov 2024 13:35]
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 17:44 - Nov 13 with 1179 viewsXatticus

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 16:32 - Nov 13 by Europablue

Anything right of centre looks like fascism to a far-left nut like yourself.
I'm not going to defend anyone. Just imagine if you are mistaken and in fact the mostly reasonable people of America are responding to a choice between Trump and an option that they see as worse. Harris backed defunding the police, which is a nutty proposition. California just made it illegal to steal again after testing out not prosecuting people for stealing up to about 500 dollars. All the points that Joe made are centrist views.
The prosecutions of Trump are clearly politically motivated by the fact that they go against the precedent of not prosecuting political enemies. Nixon wasn't even impeached. All the dates fit so well with the election schedule and the charges are a really stretch. The democrats publicly stated that they were coming after Trump and demonstrated it with the impeachments. That was the label they targeted for the 2020 election and this time round it was convicted felon.
Trump could be guilty of most of these things that he has been accused of (leading an insurrection at the Capitol does not hold up to the test of even going to trial), but we can certainly say that the prosecution/persecution is political. Because of that we can't trust the trials and it's not a good path to follow to use this lawfare as a way to take out your enemies. That really fuels the divide. The reaction to Trump is the problem. If everyone behaves like an adult, then Trump just looks like a buffoon, instead he looks more reasonable to a big part of the electorate than the other option. Elections are almost always about the least worst option.


You are just so very misinformed about so much regarding American politics. Some of this crap is absolutely nonsensical.

Nixon wasn't impeached because he resigned. He knew he would lose the vote, so he stepped down before it got that far and was pardoned shortly thereafter. His own party was abandoning him, which is basically the only way an impeachment vote will be successful. This is why the vote against Trump failed. The majority of senators voted to impeach him for inciting an insurrection, but two-thirds are required, so if you don't lose your own party, you will not lose the vote.

Stop trying to paint the election as being a referendum on the political views of the center. That's such a naive inference from the results.

There is an old joke by Will Rogers:
"I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a democrat."

The Democratic Party has to muster support from a large swathe of voters that it doesn't really represent. One can be left leaning and still opposed to much of what constitutes the current messaging coming from the Democratic Party, so the Republican Party simply uses 'divide and conquer' tactics to keep people away from showing up on election day.

Trump supporters are not indicative of the general population. He has tapped into an army of voters that the Republican Party courts, but also tries to disavow, because it doesn't really want to be known as the party of racism. The majority of his votes do not come from his supporters. They are from republican voters that will vote for the republican candidate regardless of who it is. My entire family does this and they know nothing about the issues. They simply know that the republicans are the good guys and the democrats are the bad guys.

The prosecutions of Trump are invariably politically motivated on some level, because it's impossible to avoid the issue at this point, but using that as the argument to illegitimate them is absurd. Do you even understand the purpose of laws? What he has actually been charged with is 'tip of the iceberg' relative to what crimes he has actually committed during his lifetime.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 17:45 - Nov 13 with 1177 viewsiamatractorboy

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 16:43 - Nov 13 by Europablue

This is the most graphic example



That channel looks extremely balanced...
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 22:00 - Nov 13 with 1090 viewsEuropablue

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 17:44 - Nov 13 by Xatticus

You are just so very misinformed about so much regarding American politics. Some of this crap is absolutely nonsensical.

Nixon wasn't impeached because he resigned. He knew he would lose the vote, so he stepped down before it got that far and was pardoned shortly thereafter. His own party was abandoning him, which is basically the only way an impeachment vote will be successful. This is why the vote against Trump failed. The majority of senators voted to impeach him for inciting an insurrection, but two-thirds are required, so if you don't lose your own party, you will not lose the vote.

Stop trying to paint the election as being a referendum on the political views of the center. That's such a naive inference from the results.

There is an old joke by Will Rogers:
"I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a democrat."

The Democratic Party has to muster support from a large swathe of voters that it doesn't really represent. One can be left leaning and still opposed to much of what constitutes the current messaging coming from the Democratic Party, so the Republican Party simply uses 'divide and conquer' tactics to keep people away from showing up on election day.

Trump supporters are not indicative of the general population. He has tapped into an army of voters that the Republican Party courts, but also tries to disavow, because it doesn't really want to be known as the party of racism. The majority of his votes do not come from his supporters. They are from republican voters that will vote for the republican candidate regardless of who it is. My entire family does this and they know nothing about the issues. They simply know that the republicans are the good guys and the democrats are the bad guys.

The prosecutions of Trump are invariably politically motivated on some level, because it's impossible to avoid the issue at this point, but using that as the argument to illegitimate them is absurd. Do you even understand the purpose of laws? What he has actually been charged with is 'tip of the iceberg' relative to what crimes he has actually committed during his lifetime.


You proved my point that impeachment is not a show of how bad a president is. Clearly, if a president has done something so incredibly terrible to lose his own party's support he will read the tea leaves and jump before he is pushed.
The concept of impeachment is primarily a threat to force the president to resign, or as it has been used most recently it has been warped into a show trial as a way of wasting time and causing distraction and publicly discrediting the president.
The Republicans broke the taboo by impeaching Clinton. At least you can point to it as something that definitely happened and dishonours the office. You can be sure that other Presidents have done much worse in the White House before.
The Democrats had the goal of impeaching Trump when he got in. Can anyone remember what the first one was for?
The second one was clearly about challenging the election result, but Trump was very careful not to actually incite violence and even told people to be peaceful. I personally don't think it's ok or responsible to whip up your supporters and let them do whatever it is they think will please you. The whole thing is political theatre. There certainly was no insurrection, not a single person was armed, and only one person died, and that was one of the rioters. Trump fell for Nancy Pelosi's ruse as she refused the request for extra security for the Capitol to create the circumstances for what was a very embracing incident. It was terrible leadership all round with bickering politicians and no-one thinking what was good for the country and the people.

The Presidential pardon is a very odd thing. It can be used for good effect to pardon political persecution and to help ridiculous cases where someone did something illegal, but the severity of the punishment is ridiculous.

"Do you even understand the purpose of laws?" That must have sounded cleverer when you said it. Everyone has done something illegal, so if you hold that standard you could catch basically everyone for something. You must be very naïve if you cannot understand that it is really bad to prosecute Presidents for minor crimes and they even get away with minor ones. It is very difficult to not make a prosecution look like political persecution. History didn't start in 2020. Hillary denied Trump's first election win and Trump escalated things when he lost. Hillary deleted all those emails and Biden also mishandled top secret documents like Trump probably did. In neither case was it malicious, the issue might be that secrets were leaked. Anyway, Biden was not prosecuted, but they tried to get Trump for that.
Can you really not see that it is damaging to the legitimacy of the Presidential office to have a goal of impeaching a President and go looking for cases to pin on him? The second impeachment was undermined by the spurious first one. There might have been some merit to impeaching Trump because election integrity is essential to democracy and even if you know that the other side is cheating, you can't just claim they are cheating without undeniable evidence. Instead, the second impeachment looked like political posturing because of the first spurious one, and if you try to pin anything on a President, it is impossible to shake that it looks like a political hit job, or if it wasn't, you get half the country thinking that it was. All in all, it's a recipe for disaster.
Then you have the democrats whipping up their supporters into such a frenzy and all Trump a threat to democracy setting up a dangerous atmosphere that lead to two assassination attempts, one being an incredibly close call.

What I don't understand is how you can ignore everything that the Democrats do because you think that Trump is so bad. It is actually both sides adding to the divide in the country. A lot of what Trump is bad, or I understand how you see it as bad, but a lot of people cannot bear to say that Trump has done anything well or got something right.
I personally think things will be much better when Trump is done with his nonsense and the unhinged responses to Trump's behaviour stop.

It was really interesting to see Biden welcoming the man he labelled a threat to democracy to the White House. Pretending stuff like this is very dangerous. It might just be a game to the politicians, but it is very dangerous. We are living through a very scary era of politics.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 22:27 - Nov 13 with 1068 viewsreusersfreekicks

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 22:00 - Nov 13 by Europablue

You proved my point that impeachment is not a show of how bad a president is. Clearly, if a president has done something so incredibly terrible to lose his own party's support he will read the tea leaves and jump before he is pushed.
The concept of impeachment is primarily a threat to force the president to resign, or as it has been used most recently it has been warped into a show trial as a way of wasting time and causing distraction and publicly discrediting the president.
The Republicans broke the taboo by impeaching Clinton. At least you can point to it as something that definitely happened and dishonours the office. You can be sure that other Presidents have done much worse in the White House before.
The Democrats had the goal of impeaching Trump when he got in. Can anyone remember what the first one was for?
The second one was clearly about challenging the election result, but Trump was very careful not to actually incite violence and even told people to be peaceful. I personally don't think it's ok or responsible to whip up your supporters and let them do whatever it is they think will please you. The whole thing is political theatre. There certainly was no insurrection, not a single person was armed, and only one person died, and that was one of the rioters. Trump fell for Nancy Pelosi's ruse as she refused the request for extra security for the Capitol to create the circumstances for what was a very embracing incident. It was terrible leadership all round with bickering politicians and no-one thinking what was good for the country and the people.

The Presidential pardon is a very odd thing. It can be used for good effect to pardon political persecution and to help ridiculous cases where someone did something illegal, but the severity of the punishment is ridiculous.

"Do you even understand the purpose of laws?" That must have sounded cleverer when you said it. Everyone has done something illegal, so if you hold that standard you could catch basically everyone for something. You must be very naïve if you cannot understand that it is really bad to prosecute Presidents for minor crimes and they even get away with minor ones. It is very difficult to not make a prosecution look like political persecution. History didn't start in 2020. Hillary denied Trump's first election win and Trump escalated things when he lost. Hillary deleted all those emails and Biden also mishandled top secret documents like Trump probably did. In neither case was it malicious, the issue might be that secrets were leaked. Anyway, Biden was not prosecuted, but they tried to get Trump for that.
Can you really not see that it is damaging to the legitimacy of the Presidential office to have a goal of impeaching a President and go looking for cases to pin on him? The second impeachment was undermined by the spurious first one. There might have been some merit to impeaching Trump because election integrity is essential to democracy and even if you know that the other side is cheating, you can't just claim they are cheating without undeniable evidence. Instead, the second impeachment looked like political posturing because of the first spurious one, and if you try to pin anything on a President, it is impossible to shake that it looks like a political hit job, or if it wasn't, you get half the country thinking that it was. All in all, it's a recipe for disaster.
Then you have the democrats whipping up their supporters into such a frenzy and all Trump a threat to democracy setting up a dangerous atmosphere that lead to two assassination attempts, one being an incredibly close call.

What I don't understand is how you can ignore everything that the Democrats do because you think that Trump is so bad. It is actually both sides adding to the divide in the country. A lot of what Trump is bad, or I understand how you see it as bad, but a lot of people cannot bear to say that Trump has done anything well or got something right.
I personally think things will be much better when Trump is done with his nonsense and the unhinged responses to Trump's behaviour stop.

It was really interesting to see Biden welcoming the man he labelled a threat to democracy to the White House. Pretending stuff like this is very dangerous. It might just be a game to the politicians, but it is very dangerous. We are living through a very scary era of politics.


You keep repeating MAGA lies.
Try fact checking first.
There was no refusal for extra support by Nancy Pelosi.
Where and when did Hilary Clinton deny his election win. The equivalence you try to draw here is laughable. Did she carry on saying the election was stolen for 4 years and whip up a mob? No of course not.

You keep striving in a pathetic manner for equivalence between Trumps incitement of violence, election denying and attempts at election tampering, and
democrat actions.
I honestly can't decide whether you are a troll or a bot


Hitler is bad but hey Churhill!.
All but the odd courageous Republican voted against impeachment because they either are terrified of him or want to piggy back on his MAGA cult.
Any sane person knows he should be nowhere near the presidency.
[Post edited 13 Nov 2024 22:33]
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 22:46 - Nov 13 with 1036 viewsEuropablue

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 17:45 - Nov 13 by iamatractorboy

That channel looks extremely balanced...



Yes, I agree with you. They do look for woke in everything. The clip they show is the primary source though.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 23:08 - Nov 13 with 1002 viewsEuropablue

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 22:27 - Nov 13 by reusersfreekicks

You keep repeating MAGA lies.
Try fact checking first.
There was no refusal for extra support by Nancy Pelosi.
Where and when did Hilary Clinton deny his election win. The equivalence you try to draw here is laughable. Did she carry on saying the election was stolen for 4 years and whip up a mob? No of course not.

You keep striving in a pathetic manner for equivalence between Trumps incitement of violence, election denying and attempts at election tampering, and
democrat actions.
I honestly can't decide whether you are a troll or a bot


Hitler is bad but hey Churhill!.
All but the odd courageous Republican voted against impeachment because they either are terrified of him or want to piggy back on his MAGA cult.
Any sane person knows he should be nowhere near the presidency.
[Post edited 13 Nov 2024 22:33]


This really is a pointless exchange you look past my points and just say catch phrases like "MAGA lies" and "MAGA cult".
I'll grant that it is very he said, she said concerning Trump claiming that he offered the national guard to Pelosi. I can't find any evidence either way, so you are left trusting the words of two professional liars.
"Where and when did Hilary Clinton deny his election win." How have you not heard about it? Yes, she still denies it to this day.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/hillary-clinton-russia-2016-election
This is the same as Trump saying that he will only honour the result if it was a fair election.
Look up "Hillary Clinton calls Donald Trump an ‘illegitimate president’".
No Hillary did not whip up a mob, but she would have done if she had any charisma. Her and Trump were as thick as theives until he decided to switch from being a democrat to a republican and ran against Hillary who was destined to win.
Saying stuff like "I honestly can't decide whether you are a troll or a bot" is exactly what a troll or a bot would say. You might ignore everything I say and deny that politicians on one side ever do anything wrong, but at least you are amusing.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 23:26 - Nov 13 with 990 viewsreusersfreekicks

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 23:08 - Nov 13 by Europablue

This really is a pointless exchange you look past my points and just say catch phrases like "MAGA lies" and "MAGA cult".
I'll grant that it is very he said, she said concerning Trump claiming that he offered the national guard to Pelosi. I can't find any evidence either way, so you are left trusting the words of two professional liars.
"Where and when did Hilary Clinton deny his election win." How have you not heard about it? Yes, she still denies it to this day.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/hillary-clinton-russia-2016-election
This is the same as Trump saying that he will only honour the result if it was a fair election.
Look up "Hillary Clinton calls Donald Trump an ‘illegitimate president’".
No Hillary did not whip up a mob, but she would have done if she had any charisma. Her and Trump were as thick as theives until he decided to switch from being a democrat to a republican and ran against Hillary who was destined to win.
Saying stuff like "I honestly can't decide whether you are a troll or a bot" is exactly what a troll or a bot would say. You might ignore everything I say and deny that politicians on one side ever do anything wrong, but at least you are amusing.


That link is from 2017! Any later than that?
To just portray as fact what Trump says given his record is beyond belief.
Several times on this forum you have been caught out by different posters spouting untrue nonsense yet you continue.
Oh and the original bot query didn't come from me but one of the others who find your posts bonkers.

Desperate stuff

Edit have read up re democratic election claims for 2016. There are claims of Russian interference and voters suppression but crucially no denial of the actual election count and results. No multiple ridiculous legal claims, all found to be baseless. No intimidation of election officials. No attempts to get election officials to get falsify counts.
So not the same.
Yet another, lost count now, drawing of false equivalence by you.
Same can be said in your comparison of Nancy Pelosi and Trump in the lieing stakes.
Lies lies and bs
[Post edited 14 Nov 2024 11:17]
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 23:32 - Nov 13 with 983 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:00 - Nov 13 by giant_stow

"...those Palestine supporting voters who switched to Trump in anger at Biden are in for a nasty shock..."

Those are the only ones I have contempt for tbh. I don't understand women, black and Latino Trump voters, but that's different.
[Post edited 13 Nov 2024 14:01]


Swings and roundabouts?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/13/israel-joe-biden-aid-gaza

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: Do you wipe after having a piss?

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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 00:05 - Nov 14 with 962 viewsrkc123

A friend of mine recently completed a bike ride across America, and it was fascinating what he found speaking to people as he went. He said probably 90% of people he met fell in his view just left or right of centre, those right of centre generally couldn't stand Trump, and those left had a hard time with some of the more extreme left views that democrats were putting forward (in their eyes) - this surprised me as the media portrayal you get is this country divided, sitting at extremes, which doesn't seem to be the case.

What he found really interesting though is that those on the right who couldn't stand Trump were mostly still going to vote for him, and he just couldn't fathom this. They were generally thoughtful, intelligent people, who didn't like anything to do with Trump, were concerned about his lack of care for environmental issues which are becoming harder to ignore for Americans given the extreme weather trends, yet that small step over from their view to the Democrats was too much, and they would rather vote for someone who they distrusted to run their country. I do think a lot of his economy stuff really did cut through as well, so a lot of people would turn a blind eye to large parts of what he said as they trusted him to make their day to day lives better.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 00:16 - Nov 14 with 954 viewsSwansea_Blue

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 16:32 - Nov 13 by Europablue

Anything right of centre looks like fascism to a far-left nut like yourself.
I'm not going to defend anyone. Just imagine if you are mistaken and in fact the mostly reasonable people of America are responding to a choice between Trump and an option that they see as worse. Harris backed defunding the police, which is a nutty proposition. California just made it illegal to steal again after testing out not prosecuting people for stealing up to about 500 dollars. All the points that Joe made are centrist views.
The prosecutions of Trump are clearly politically motivated by the fact that they go against the precedent of not prosecuting political enemies. Nixon wasn't even impeached. All the dates fit so well with the election schedule and the charges are a really stretch. The democrats publicly stated that they were coming after Trump and demonstrated it with the impeachments. That was the label they targeted for the 2020 election and this time round it was convicted felon.
Trump could be guilty of most of these things that he has been accused of (leading an insurrection at the Capitol does not hold up to the test of even going to trial), but we can certainly say that the prosecution/persecution is political. Because of that we can't trust the trials and it's not a good path to follow to use this lawfare as a way to take out your enemies. That really fuels the divide. The reaction to Trump is the problem. If everyone behaves like an adult, then Trump just looks like a buffoon, instead he looks more reasonable to a big part of the electorate than the other option. Elections are almost always about the least worst option.


What does “defund the police” mean in practical terms? And have you got any proof that Harris took that position? All I can find is that she gave a speech in 2020 where she said that community initiatives are important alongside law enforcement for reducing crime and that all such initiatives should be investigated (not implemented, but their potential effectiveness considered). That sounds very sensible to me. Prevention is almost always cheaper than dealing with the consequences. For all areas, not just crime.

Poll: Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 06:23 - Nov 14 with 885 viewsiamatractorboy

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 00:16 - Nov 14 by Swansea_Blue

What does “defund the police” mean in practical terms? And have you got any proof that Harris took that position? All I can find is that she gave a speech in 2020 where she said that community initiatives are important alongside law enforcement for reducing crime and that all such initiatives should be investigated (not implemented, but their potential effectiveness considered). That sounds very sensible to me. Prevention is almost always cheaper than dealing with the consequences. For all areas, not just crime.


'Defund the police' has been wilfully misinterpreted by Trump supporters. It is, as you say, finding alternative ways to reduce crime. Prevention better than cure etc. It doesn't just mean sack the police and not bother going after criminals.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 09:15 - Nov 14 with 827 viewsDJR

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 16:01 - Nov 13 by itfcjoe

I don't disagree with the overall goal of it, just think that the methods at the moment punish young white men which will see them become disaffected as they are now at the bottom of the pile for jobs.

I'd like to see some real thought given to 'class' amongst any targets if they were to exist too but that just isn't the case. As Oxbridge has moved on away from the preserve of the public schools, it now means that when those who have got there from state schools are now seen as the Oxbridge elite when it comes to applying for jobs!

All this stuff is very, very difficult - but there seems that there is either a lack of acceptance that there has to be losers, or people just not caring and citing white privilege which is a term that needs an urgent rebrand!

Companies may have 80% men, 90% white people, 95% straight people, 95% non-disabled people etc......but the only way that can be equalised is from the bottom up which punishes people

Anyway a bit of a ramble, but this stuff drives people rightwards


I am not sure where you get the idea that young white men are bottom of the pile.

Here is a link to a report from the House of Commons library published in August concerning unemployment by ethnicity.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06385/SN06385.pdf

From it you will see that unemployment rates for men and women (of whatever ethnicity) are roughly the same.

It also shows that the unemployment rate for white people aged 16 to 24 is 10% whereas the rate for those from a minority ethnic background is 19.4%.

For those aged 25-49, the respective rates are 2% and 5.6%, and for those aged 50+ are 3% and 4.2%.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2024 9:27]
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 10:26 - Nov 14 with 745 viewscrouchendyachtclub

It wouldn't surprise me if this has been covered elsewhere in thread but on the evidence of the final page, reading through to check would probably be too tiring.

To be clear about my position I wanted Harris to win, put £100 on that outcome the day before the election and am myself completely quality of the same thinking up to a week ago. The outcome is very much turkeys voting for Christmas but still...

I think the OP makes the same mistake that I, and many woolly liberals/democrats made in the run up to the election and completely overlooks what based on the result, appears to be a very squeezed middle in the US. When food prices are up 35%, rent is up 50% but salaries at the low to middle range haven't really moved, people are going to vote for their own prosperity. When you're struggling to keep a roof over your head despite working 60 hours a week then whether or not the alternative to the status quo is or isn't completely odious doesn't really come into it. I hate to use the term privilege because I think it tends to be offputting but in this case I think it probably has become a luxury to be able to afford to be able to think about the character of who is being voted in.

Anecdotally, trump fervour was substantially down. There were fewer yard signs even in deep red areas and his rallies were much smaller than Harris and had streams of people leaving early.

The same dynamic can be seen here but with parties reversed. Despite the popular press leaning right and stoking culture ways and the ease with which BBC impartiality rules can be exploited by extreme views, the UK voted Labour in by a landslide. There is a very large portion of the population that only really engages with politics every 4 or 5 years and their motivations are based around their own quality of life.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 10:31 - Nov 14 with 732 viewsEuropablue

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 00:05 - Nov 14 by rkc123

A friend of mine recently completed a bike ride across America, and it was fascinating what he found speaking to people as he went. He said probably 90% of people he met fell in his view just left or right of centre, those right of centre generally couldn't stand Trump, and those left had a hard time with some of the more extreme left views that democrats were putting forward (in their eyes) - this surprised me as the media portrayal you get is this country divided, sitting at extremes, which doesn't seem to be the case.

What he found really interesting though is that those on the right who couldn't stand Trump were mostly still going to vote for him, and he just couldn't fathom this. They were generally thoughtful, intelligent people, who didn't like anything to do with Trump, were concerned about his lack of care for environmental issues which are becoming harder to ignore for Americans given the extreme weather trends, yet that small step over from their view to the Democrats was too much, and they would rather vote for someone who they distrusted to run their country. I do think a lot of his economy stuff really did cut through as well, so a lot of people would turn a blind eye to large parts of what he said as they trusted him to make their day to day lives better.


Exactly. No normal person follows a political party like they follow a football team. The concept of just blindly supporting a person or party regardless of what they say or do is ridiculous. Most people are just normal.
Of course, most people would like Trump to show some more decorum. It's definitely more entertaining with Trump in charge, but that's not what we should be looking for in a leader, however a certain amount of charisma is important and that is completely lacking in Scholtz or Starmer.
People just weigh both candidates up and see who would leave the country in a more preferable state based on their personal views.
No-one who has been paying proper attention will be surprised by the result.
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 10:34 - Nov 14 with 720 viewsreusersfreekicks

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 10:26 - Nov 14 by crouchendyachtclub

It wouldn't surprise me if this has been covered elsewhere in thread but on the evidence of the final page, reading through to check would probably be too tiring.

To be clear about my position I wanted Harris to win, put £100 on that outcome the day before the election and am myself completely quality of the same thinking up to a week ago. The outcome is very much turkeys voting for Christmas but still...

I think the OP makes the same mistake that I, and many woolly liberals/democrats made in the run up to the election and completely overlooks what based on the result, appears to be a very squeezed middle in the US. When food prices are up 35%, rent is up 50% but salaries at the low to middle range haven't really moved, people are going to vote for their own prosperity. When you're struggling to keep a roof over your head despite working 60 hours a week then whether or not the alternative to the status quo is or isn't completely odious doesn't really come into it. I hate to use the term privilege because I think it tends to be offputting but in this case I think it probably has become a luxury to be able to afford to be able to think about the character of who is being voted in.

Anecdotally, trump fervour was substantially down. There were fewer yard signs even in deep red areas and his rallies were much smaller than Harris and had streams of people leaving early.

The same dynamic can be seen here but with parties reversed. Despite the popular press leaning right and stoking culture ways and the ease with which BBC impartiality rules can be exploited by extreme views, the UK voted Labour in by a landslide. There is a very large portion of the population that only really engages with politics every 4 or 5 years and their motivations are based around their own quality of life.


Thanks, interesting and measured
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The trend to excuse Trump voters on 11:24 - Nov 14 with 611 viewsreusersfreekicks

The trend to excuse Trump voters on 10:31 - Nov 14 by Europablue

Exactly. No normal person follows a political party like they follow a football team. The concept of just blindly supporting a person or party regardless of what they say or do is ridiculous. Most people are just normal.
Of course, most people would like Trump to show some more decorum. It's definitely more entertaining with Trump in charge, but that's not what we should be looking for in a leader, however a certain amount of charisma is important and that is completely lacking in Scholtz or Starmer.
People just weigh both candidates up and see who would leave the country in a more preferable state based on their personal views.
No-one who has been paying proper attention will be surprised by the result.


"show more decorum" lols
He can keep his poor "decorum" if he stopped lieing, law breaking, instigating riots, intimidating election officials, trying to persuade election officials to "find" votes, appointing other criminals to cabinet posts, loading trillions of debt onto the economy in tax breaks for billionaires, climate change denying, threatening to abandon Ukraine etc etc

The fact that you see his decorum as the issue sums it up really
Like saying wish Mussolini had minded his Ps and Qs
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