| Trump dumping on Europe 12:09 - Feb 19 with 1632 views | tonybied |
Could Europe collectively decide to boot any Americans out of military bases that they currently use. Would this make the orange idiot sit up and take notice that his discisions are far more reaching than just the lives of the Ukrainians. I expect this would have plenty more unwanted repercussions as we'd effectively be ending our allegiance with the US. I just wonder if we threatened it it would actually grab Trumps attention, as it's the kind of language he understands.
Would this approach have more negatives than positives? It could be seen as cutting off our nose to spite our face. I imagine it would have fairly big consequences for the US military too though as they use many bases this side of the pond.
It's probably a total nonsense of a post and feel free to ridicule me for it, but I think something needs to happen to show that Europe are prepared to stick together and push back against decisions being made about our security without even having a seat in the room. |  | | |  |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 12:59 - Feb 19 with 1512 views | RegencyBlue |
They could but I don’t think it will be that long before the US starts pulling much of its armed forces out of the European theatre anyway. The US military is looking to pivot towards China as it emerges as a greater threat, in their eyes, than Russia.
One thing that Trump is right about, like it or not, is that Europe has not been pulling its weight as far as spending on defence is concerned since the end of the Cold War, if not before. It has been relying on the Americans to guarantee its safety and has become far too reliant on that relationship. The wake up call now being experienced was inevitable at some point.
As far as the UK is concerned, successive governments have hollowed out our armed forces to the point where they are underfunded, undermanned and under equipped. It’s going to take years and years to put that right. |  | | |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:02 - Feb 19 with 1465 views | Plums |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 12:59 - Feb 19 by RegencyBlue |
They could but I don’t think it will be that long before the US starts pulling much of its armed forces out of the European theatre anyway. The US military is looking to pivot towards China as it emerges as a greater threat, in their eyes, than Russia.
One thing that Trump is right about, like it or not, is that Europe has not been pulling its weight as far as spending on defence is concerned since the end of the Cold War, if not before. It has been relying on the Americans to guarantee its safety and has become far too reliant on that relationship. The wake up call now being experienced was inevitable at some point.
As far as the UK is concerned, successive governments have hollowed out our armed forces to the point where they are underfunded, undermanned and under equipped. It’s going to take years and years to put that right. |
Years? It will take decades. Don't all NATO nations rely on US arms and tech to operate in a combined arms operation?
Perhaps what Trump really wants is us all to spend more $$ with his defence manufacturers. The trouble is we now have no guarantee that he won't be sharing the intel with his mate/ boss Vlad. |  |
| |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:03 - Feb 19 with 1464 views | bsw72 |
It's not ridiculous but I think the only people who would benefit from doing that would be Russia currently.
US would be quite happy to have "their boys" back home, or moved out to other states such as the Middle East, Asia and Africa, especially as the US expect the main threat to come from these regions now that Don and Vlad are best chums. |  | | |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:03 - Feb 19 with 1467 views | Zx1988 |
From a housing point of view it could have an interesting impact.
US Airmen/women based in the UK get a housing allowance based on rank, which sits well above the usual market rents around their airbases in Norfolk/Suffolk. This has the effect of dictating rents for decent housing stock in the area - the housing allowance will become the new market rent.
If the USAF was turfed out of the likes of Lakenheath and Mildenhall, local landlords (boo hoo) would find that their income would decrease by about 30% overnight but, at the same time, local renters would find that the level of local rents would drop significantly. |  |
| |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:13 - Feb 19 with 1377 views | blueasfook |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 12:59 - Feb 19 by RegencyBlue |
They could but I don’t think it will be that long before the US starts pulling much of its armed forces out of the European theatre anyway. The US military is looking to pivot towards China as it emerges as a greater threat, in their eyes, than Russia.
One thing that Trump is right about, like it or not, is that Europe has not been pulling its weight as far as spending on defence is concerned since the end of the Cold War, if not before. It has been relying on the Americans to guarantee its safety and has become far too reliant on that relationship. The wake up call now being experienced was inevitable at some point.
As far as the UK is concerned, successive governments have hollowed out our armed forces to the point where they are underfunded, undermanned and under equipped. It’s going to take years and years to put that right. |
Agree. The uncomfortable truth is Europe currently needs the US more than they need us. We relied on the US propping up underspending in EU defence budgets for far too long and became complacent in thinking Uncle Sam would always look after us.
Europe needs to start planning for its own defence without reliance on our pals across the pond to help us out. I even think we could be seeing the beginning of the end for the NATO alliance. Especially if it becomes split over Ukraine. However, this will come at some political cost also to the US. It needs allies in the west as much as we do. Without its close relationships with Europe, surely this will embolden its eastern enemies. [Post edited 19 Feb 13:15]
|  |
| |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:17 - Feb 19 with 1336 views | Basuco |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:03 - Feb 19 by bsw72 |
It's not ridiculous but I think the only people who would benefit from doing that would be Russia currently.
US would be quite happy to have "their boys" back home, or moved out to other states such as the Middle East, Asia and Africa, especially as the US expect the main threat to come from these regions now that Don and Vlad are best chums. |
In the past it was said that the reason for having US bases in Europe was so that any retaliation from bombing raids would be directed at the Country that the planes came from. I thought that most US servicemen and women at Lakenheath and Mildenhall were back in base housing rather than private rental several years ago, but might be wrong on this. |  | | |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:23 - Feb 19 with 1306 views | Horsham |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:13 - Feb 19 by blueasfook |
Agree. The uncomfortable truth is Europe currently needs the US more than they need us. We relied on the US propping up underspending in EU defence budgets for far too long and became complacent in thinking Uncle Sam would always look after us.
Europe needs to start planning for its own defence without reliance on our pals across the pond to help us out. I even think we could be seeing the beginning of the end for the NATO alliance. Especially if it becomes split over Ukraine. However, this will come at some political cost also to the US. It needs allies in the west as much as we do. Without its close relationships with Europe, surely this will embolden its eastern enemies. [Post edited 19 Feb 13:15]
|
It’s a balance. Trump’s made a big play on Europe being unfair and not buying enough US goods/services so that hints at him trying to redress a balance of the US needing Europe too much for some stuff. I wonder if the entrepreneur in Trump is recognising Europe doesn’t have enough security/military influence to cater for a stirred up geopolitical environment and no surprises he’s stirring it up more to ratchet up a position where Europe pays America to guarantee its security. Increasing the squeeze and moving to a strangle hold. |  | | |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:24 - Feb 19 with 1300 views | tonybied |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:13 - Feb 19 by blueasfook |
Agree. The uncomfortable truth is Europe currently needs the US more than they need us. We relied on the US propping up underspending in EU defence budgets for far too long and became complacent in thinking Uncle Sam would always look after us.
Europe needs to start planning for its own defence without reliance on our pals across the pond to help us out. I even think we could be seeing the beginning of the end for the NATO alliance. Especially if it becomes split over Ukraine. However, this will come at some political cost also to the US. It needs allies in the west as much as we do. Without its close relationships with Europe, surely this will embolden its eastern enemies. [Post edited 19 Feb 13:15]
|
I think your last paragraph sums up the jist of what I meant. It's undeniable that we lean on the US more than they lean on us (and that 100% needs to change) but cutting that link would still have massive effects on the US too. There's the political side as you mention, logistically, it would probably effect them too making it much harder to move resources around the world. Also, would they have the infrastructure to welcome all their troops based in Europe back home in a short space of time? [Post edited 19 Feb 13:48]
| | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:28 - Feb 19 with 1281 views | TractorWood |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:03 - Feb 19 by Zx1988 |
From a housing point of view it could have an interesting impact.
US Airmen/women based in the UK get a housing allowance based on rank, which sits well above the usual market rents around their airbases in Norfolk/Suffolk. This has the effect of dictating rents for decent housing stock in the area - the housing allowance will become the new market rent.
If the USAF was turfed out of the likes of Lakenheath and Mildenhall, local landlords (boo hoo) would find that their income would decrease by about 30% overnight but, at the same time, local renters would find that the level of local rents would drop significantly. |
It does and it doesn't.
I've lived around the bases for about 10 years. A bit further away now but there are still lots of forces in rural pubs etc. They are usually tremendously pleasant too.
They get a generous allowance particularly those in high ranks. The market does rinse them a bit for mediocre housing stock in say Red Lodge on the rental market. But equally at sale those houses are in high demand from Cambridge families who don't want to pay £2k to rent a flat in CB4!
Proximity to Cambridge and its increasingly stratospheric rents and sale prices are as bigger push/pull for locals who are all likely to work in or around CB. Very few will be commuting elsewhere as the pay and availability of jobs is a regional outlier.
Tax regime is increasingly penal on small scale landlords too. Perhaps rightly.
Swings and roundabouts imo. [Post edited 19 Feb 13:28]
|  |
| |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:49 - Feb 19 with 1167 views | mr_bean |
I understand the sentiment. But there's an easier, more targetted, solution than booting the Americans out of their air bases in this country: repossess Trump's Scottish golf course! | | | |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:57 - Feb 19 with 1143 views | Guthrum |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 12:59 - Feb 19 by RegencyBlue |
They could but I don’t think it will be that long before the US starts pulling much of its armed forces out of the European theatre anyway. The US military is looking to pivot towards China as it emerges as a greater threat, in their eyes, than Russia.
One thing that Trump is right about, like it or not, is that Europe has not been pulling its weight as far as spending on defence is concerned since the end of the Cold War, if not before. It has been relying on the Americans to guarantee its safety and has become far too reliant on that relationship. The wake up call now being experienced was inevitable at some point.
As far as the UK is concerned, successive governments have hollowed out our armed forces to the point where they are underfunded, undermanned and under equipped. It’s going to take years and years to put that right. |
Looking at it another way, governments have been spending money on stuff which is good for their citizens, rather than arms manufacturers and the relatively small portion of the populace who serve in or work for the forces.
I'm not a pacifist, but if the amount spent yearly on militaries was put into medical research instead, think how many diseases would be eradicated. We might be able to cure maniacs, rather than having them run countries. |  |
| |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 14:35 - Feb 19 with 1033 views | nodge_blue |
I listened to something today that said many of our weapon systems rely on American parts and or American intelligence to work.
Thats a pickle if we play hard ball.
We have no real cards to play sadly. [Post edited 19 Feb 14:35]
|  |
| |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 14:37 - Feb 19 with 1004 views | RegencyBlue |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 13:57 - Feb 19 by Guthrum |
Looking at it another way, governments have been spending money on stuff which is good for their citizens, rather than arms manufacturers and the relatively small portion of the populace who serve in or work for the forces.
I'm not a pacifist, but if the amount spent yearly on militaries was put into medical research instead, think how many diseases would be eradicated. We might be able to cure maniacs, rather than having them run countries. |
In an ideal world ok, but we don’t live in that, never have and never will.
As the ancient Roman, whose name currently escapes me said ‘Let he who desires peace prepare for war’. As true now as it was then! | | | |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 16:57 - Feb 19 with 829 views | tonybied |
| Trump dumping on Europe on 14:37 - Feb 19 by RegencyBlue |
In an ideal world ok, but we don’t live in that, never have and never will.
As the ancient Roman, whose name currently escapes me said ‘Let he who desires peace prepare for war’. As true now as it was then! |
Indeed, look how well the Ukrainians giving up their nuclear arsenal has worked out for them! [Post edited 19 Feb 19:17]
| | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
