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can't say i'm 100% either way on this, but it feels like a positive
Will help to get young people more engaged in politics if they are able to actually have a voice. Also I suppose it's only fair that if you are paying NI or income tax at the age of 16 then you have a say on how that money is being spent
Any strong feelings either way?
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Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 16:44 - Jul 17 with 859 views
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 14:36 - Jul 17 by baxterbasics
Have you met many 16 yr olds lately?
Absolutely barking mad. I'm more in favour of raising the age to 25.
I guess there is at least some relief in that most of them wont bother anyway.
Young people may care about issues and want to be heard, but not if it means making efforts like rocking up to a church hall to actually vote. The 18 to 25 year old group managed 65% turnout last GE - that's out of those registered to vote, not the entire population.
They also increasingly favour smaller parties so Labour might come to regret this.
I'd imagine the 18-25 age bracket's voter turnout is strongly influenced by many people living fairly transient lifestyles at that age. 16-18 year olds will largely still be living at home in a place they grew up, and might be more likely to register and vote.
As for 'most of them won't bother', the report linked below shows that voter turnout for 16-17 year olds at the last Scottish Parliament election was nearly 80%, compared to under 50% for 18-19 year olds. It also suggests a lower voting age makes younger people more likely to vote in general:
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 16:18 - Jul 17 by Herbivore
A 16 year old developmentally is going to be much closer to an 18 year old than to a 9 year old. If a 16 year old was sleeping with an 18 year old it would be a consensual sexual relationship, if a 16 year old was sleeping with a 9 year old it'd be something quite different. I'd also say a 30 year old sleeping with an 18 year old is WAY more creepy than an 18 year old sleeping with a 16 year old. Basically, I'm not sure your argument that 16-18 is a massive developmental leap really holds.
I'm not comparing 16-18 with 9-18, 9-16 or 18-30, I'm talking about incremental increases, and I'm not talking about sexual development either. I don't think you really misunderstood that but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I think 16-17 and 17-18 are larger incremental changes than 18-19, 19-20, 13-14, 14-15 for example.
I'm still only ambivalent to the change, not anti-. There are some positive reasons.
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 16:14 - Jul 17 by cressi
Vote most are snowflakes today Don't want to work what they should introduce if you are fit and healthy don't work for two yrs you lose your right to vote, but to be honest they don't care. This country is in a right old muddle.
Mainly due to the elder generations who had the vote presumably?
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 16:46 - Jul 17 by Trequartista
I'm not comparing 16-18 with 9-18, 9-16 or 18-30, I'm talking about incremental increases, and I'm not talking about sexual development either. I don't think you really misunderstood that but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I think 16-17 and 17-18 are larger incremental changes than 18-19, 19-20, 13-14, 14-15 for example.
I'm still only ambivalent to the change, not anti-. There are some positive reasons.
[Post edited 17 Jul 16:47]
So why bring 9 year olds and 30 year olds into it in the first place if you think they aren't relevant to the debate? You were talking about the developmental leap between 16 and 18, my argument was demonstrating that there really isn't a developmental leap in the way you suggest. It's not about sexual development either, most young people reach sexual maturity (i.e. they are capable of reproducing) well before 16 but they aren't deemed capable of consenting until the age of 16 and this is an issue of cognitive development, being able to consent in an informed way. I don't think you've made a very compelling case that 16 year olds are that much less mature than 18 year olds that they shouldn't be allowed to vote. We consider them capable of lots of other things, so why not voting?
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 16:53 - Jul 17 by Herbivore
So why bring 9 year olds and 30 year olds into it in the first place if you think they aren't relevant to the debate? You were talking about the developmental leap between 16 and 18, my argument was demonstrating that there really isn't a developmental leap in the way you suggest. It's not about sexual development either, most young people reach sexual maturity (i.e. they are capable of reproducing) well before 16 but they aren't deemed capable of consenting until the age of 16 and this is an issue of cognitive development, being able to consent in an informed way. I don't think you've made a very compelling case that 16 year olds are that much less mature than 18 year olds that they shouldn't be allowed to vote. We consider them capable of lots of other things, so why not voting?
Honestly, the whole debate around whether they are cognitively developed enough to vote seems a bit silly, considering you can have full-blown dementia and still vote.
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 17:01 - Jul 17 by DanTheMan
Honestly, the whole debate around whether they are cognitively developed enough to vote seems a bit silly, considering you can have full-blown dementia and still vote.
Indeed. Even [Redacted] can vote so I agree that it's not a strong argument.
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 15:16 - Jul 17 by Trequartista
Again anecdotally, so not making any claims here, but I get the feeling it is boys in the 16-17 group that may vote Reform in significant numbers, but not girls.
If we look at parallels to the USA and the MAGA movement, it was young white males who overwhelmingly voted for a racist sexual predator in Trump.
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Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 17:32 - Jul 17 with 663 views
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 13:14 - Jul 17 by Daninthecampo
And unfortunately now your kids can no longer live and work in the EU like myself because of older voters who couldn't see through the lies!
100% - one of my kids was a foreign languages student, she was fortunate to spend a year* studying in France and subsequently is able to use her language skills in her job.
These opportunities have now been limited for the next generations - this genuinely makes me furious.
* the "year" abroad was 2019-2020, so actually finished in March cos of some global pandemic thingy.
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 17:32 - Jul 17 by bsw72
100% - one of my kids was a foreign languages student, she was fortunate to spend a year* studying in France and subsequently is able to use her language skills in her job.
These opportunities have now been limited for the next generations - this genuinely makes me furious.
* the "year" abroad was 2019-2020, so actually finished in March cos of some global pandemic thingy.
It is still possible to study for a year abroad as part of a degree but that's about it.
My son has just come back from a year in Spain as part of this language degree and liked it so much he would love to go to live and work in Spain when he has finished his degree.
Sadly, that is virtually impossible these days, as is the prospect of not especially well-off Brits seeking a new life or retirement there.
But the Nigel Lawsons of this world with all their wealth are unaffected.
It is also worth pointing out that it is a bit of a nightmare to get a study visa for Spain, something that would not have been the case were we still in the EU.
[Post edited 17 Jul 17:57]
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Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 17:54 - Jul 17 with 622 views
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 17:01 - Jul 17 by DanTheMan
Honestly, the whole debate around whether they are cognitively developed enough to vote seems a bit silly, considering you can have full-blown dementia and still vote.
There's also the Flynn Effect which suggests subsequent generations as a whole have higher IQs than preceding generations.
I would have hoped that the Labour government would have prioritised bringing some form of Proportional Representation for General Elections rather than First Past the Post, but I guess that would hurt Labour chances significantly of ever getting a large majority again.
I suppose letting children vote will maybe increase the Labour vote share so I can see why they have prioritised this now before the next GE.
Well, I had absolutely no idea about politics when I was 16. I’d be surprised if there are many these days that do. This seems like a desperate move by Labour. You don’t have many if any responsibilities at 16, nor should you! What do we do next, lower it to 12..??
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Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 23:12 - Jul 17 with 457 views
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 11:09 - Jul 17 by tonybied
I definitely agree with this. If you're old enough to earn money and pay taxes, then surely you're old enough to help make a decision on how your tax money should be spent!
That’s the bottom line. They’ve finished compulsory schooling so should be able to vote. If there was a way to have school kids’ voices heard in the process too I’d be all up for that as well. A lot of kids have more sense and more to lose than a lot of adults. I suppose that’s where Children’s Commissioners come in, so I’d At the very least strengthen that area.
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 21:48 - Jul 17 by BlueForYou
Well, I had absolutely no idea about politics when I was 16. I’d be surprised if there are many these days that do. This seems like a desperate move by Labour. You don’t have many if any responsibilities at 16, nor should you! What do we do next, lower it to 12..??
I think 16 & 17 year olds have a very good grasp of the most serious issue facing us, ie climate change, pollution and loss of biodiversity - and in many cases a far greater determination to do all they can to combat those things, which in my view makes them just as worthy of getting the vote, if not more so, than many aged 50+.
If 16+ can work, pay NI and join the army, drive a car etc, I don’t see why they shouldn’t vote. Let’s face it, older people who are terminally stupid or senile (I probably qualify for one out of two😄) are not barred from voting.
The only concern I have is Labour’s motivation for bringing it in. Had they thought the majority of young people were not potential Labour voters would they have pushed it? Doubt it. Politics seems to be party first, second and third. However in this instance, whatever the motivation, I think on balance it’s the right thing to do.
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Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 08:52 - Jul 18 with 330 views
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 08:39 - Jul 18 by Churchman
If 16+ can work, pay NI and join the army, drive a car etc, I don’t see why they shouldn’t vote. Let’s face it, older people who are terminally stupid or senile (I probably qualify for one out of two😄) are not barred from voting.
The only concern I have is Labour’s motivation for bringing it in. Had they thought the majority of young people were not potential Labour voters would they have pushed it? Doubt it. Politics seems to be party first, second and third. However in this instance, whatever the motivation, I think on balance it’s the right thing to do.
Not old enough to drink a cold beer though 😃
This government aren’t offering anything for youngsters in terms of improving public services, affordable housing, boosting savings, and even the latest ONS jobs data is less than encouraging. I expect Labour will see little benefit.
Also see it as far more important to democracy to give us PR and break down this awful 2 party system which gives us endless mediocrity, complacency, and short term policies.
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Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 09:22 - Jul 18 with 295 views
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 08:39 - Jul 18 by Churchman
If 16+ can work, pay NI and join the army, drive a car etc, I don’t see why they shouldn’t vote. Let’s face it, older people who are terminally stupid or senile (I probably qualify for one out of two😄) are not barred from voting.
The only concern I have is Labour’s motivation for bringing it in. Had they thought the majority of young people were not potential Labour voters would they have pushed it? Doubt it. Politics seems to be party first, second and third. However in this instance, whatever the motivation, I think on balance it’s the right thing to do.
Can join the army with patental consent, but not be deployed for conflict. Can't get a tattoo, can't buy alcohol, can't drive, can't donate blood.
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Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 10:25 - Jul 18 with 238 views
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 23:12 - Jul 17 by Swansea_Blue
That’s the bottom line. They’ve finished compulsory schooling so should be able to vote. If there was a way to have school kids’ voices heard in the process too I’d be all up for that as well. A lot of kids have more sense and more to lose than a lot of adults. I suppose that’s where Children’s Commissioners come in, so I’d At the very least strengthen that area.
Reminder that compulsory schooling now runs to 18 technically, unless they have an apprenticeship or similar formal vocational training scheme lined up.
On the taxes point, I'd be more in favour of not taxing under 18's on regular salary. Would be a helpful boost for them. Can't be that many in this group earning enough anyway given mostly part time and on lower minimal wages. Unless they are a successful actor/ media personality or footballer already and on megabucks.
Voting age being lowered to 16 then on 16:14 - Jul 17 by cressi
Vote most are snowflakes today Don't want to work what they should introduce if you are fit and healthy don't work for two yrs you lose your right to vote, but to be honest they don't care. This country is in a right old muddle.
We could introduce a literary test people have to pass before being allowed to vote
I think I got the gist of that. It’s not been my experience that teenagers are lazy. Far from it, but it depends on those you know I suppose.
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