| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 15:26 - Nov 9 with 3803 views | StuartSlater |
Thoughts folks |  |
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| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 12:23 - Nov 10 with 439 views | IPS_wich |
Not even in top five left backs:
Beattie, Mills, Thompson, Taricco, Cresswell just off the top of my head
But, he’s probably in our top five players in the last ten years. | | | |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 12:32 - Nov 10 with 431 views | Herbivore |
I'd have him behind Hreidarsson, who was great when he played as a marauding full back for us in the Prem. Obviously he's behind Mills. I think if we're going with performances for us as opposed to the career they had, I'd have him above Cresswell and Mings. They were both very good but neither of them broke the record for most assists from a defender in the Championship and neither of them played any footy for us in the Prem. Taricco is an absolute cult hero who did well at Spurs too but again, never did anything for us in the Prem and I'm not sure he was quite as impactful for us in the second tier as Davis.
Clapham and Thompson are underrated, both performed well for us in the top flight as well as in the second tier but I don't think either ever stood out the way Davis did in 2023/24 and for all the criticism he got last year I think only Alexander-Arnold created more chances from full back in the Prem which is no mean feat considering Davis was playing in a struggling side. So he's definitely not our best ever left back but you can make an argument that he's top 5 and possibly even top 3 if you're being generous. |  |
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| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 12:50 - Nov 10 with 412 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
Has to be a contender.
Don't get the fuss about these 70s/80s "legends". I'm sure they were okay, but football has moved on since then. It's a much quicker, more athletic game now.
Who knows what Beattie would have been capable off if he'd been trained to modern standards - no doubt he would have had talent. May have made it to the top if the desire was there. But you look at old videos of him lumping it long on cabbage patch pitches, modern Championship players would run rings around him. |  |
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| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 13:17 - Nov 10 with 398 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 16:20 - Nov 9 by DJR |
He came 9th equal in terms of chances created last season, and I think he was top for a defender.
https://www.planetfootball.com/premier-league/chance-creators-premier-league-202
Despite that, he didn't appear to attract Premier League interest, maybe because of his defensive qualities. On the other hand, you can't be bombing ahead in a poor Premier League team and hope to be defending very well at the same time.
But the answer to the question is no, and let's not forget Aaron Cresswell. [Post edited 9 Nov 16:23]
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Where did he come in ranking for being at fault for goals conceded? Even his most ardent fans would have to admit he was poor last season. | | | |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 13:25 - Nov 10 with 387 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 12:50 - Nov 10 by ThatMuhrenCross |
Has to be a contender.
Don't get the fuss about these 70s/80s "legends". I'm sure they were okay, but football has moved on since then. It's a much quicker, more athletic game now.
Who knows what Beattie would have been capable off if he'd been trained to modern standards - no doubt he would have had talent. May have made it to the top if the desire was there. But you look at old videos of him lumping it long on cabbage patch pitches, modern Championship players would run rings around him. |
Its a different game for sure, but the only way you can answer these questions is taking what that player achieved in their era.
When Leif captains his country, or plays at World Cup finals his achievements can be compared with Mick Mills. | | | |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 13:33 - Nov 10 with 381 views | Herbivore |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 12:50 - Nov 10 by ThatMuhrenCross |
Has to be a contender.
Don't get the fuss about these 70s/80s "legends". I'm sure they were okay, but football has moved on since then. It's a much quicker, more athletic game now.
Who knows what Beattie would have been capable off if he'd been trained to modern standards - no doubt he would have had talent. May have made it to the top if the desire was there. But you look at old videos of him lumping it long on cabbage patch pitches, modern Championship players would run rings around him. |
But also I don't think you can discount the achievements of those players because the game was different then. You've got to appraise them in context and Mills captained England and was a mainstay in one of the best club sides in Europe. If you stuck him in a time machine and played him and Leif then there's every chance Leif would look better, he'd likely be quicker, fitter, and stronger than Mills for a start. But against their respective peers, Mills was far superior and one of the best full backs around in his day. That's not true of Davis, not yet at least. | |
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| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 14:29 - Nov 10 with 345 views | Churchman |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 12:50 - Nov 10 by ThatMuhrenCross |
Has to be a contender.
Don't get the fuss about these 70s/80s "legends". I'm sure they were okay, but football has moved on since then. It's a much quicker, more athletic game now.
Who knows what Beattie would have been capable off if he'd been trained to modern standards - no doubt he would have had talent. May have made it to the top if the desire was there. But you look at old videos of him lumping it long on cabbage patch pitches, modern Championship players would run rings around him. |
I can say having seen them, they would have had no problem in the modern era. Beattie would be the best defender in the country. He was fast, aggressive, powerful, had a real jump on him and a net busting shot. That was with a ball about 25% heavier, dead pitches, heavy kit, rubbish medical care too much booze and a hardly scientific diet.
Burley, Wark, Mills and Mariner could easily have played in this era too. As a fetch and carrier, talbot would have been fine and there is always room for people that could play and pass like the Dutchmen.
Mills and Osman were two footed so could play either side. Osman might have struggled height wise as would have Hunter. And Cooper was small even then so no chance now for him.
The game is consistently faster now thanks to fitness, diet and pitches. But the old days matches tended to ebb and flow from slow to fast. It’s how it was.
But back to Beattie, to say that modern championship players would run rings round him? They wouldn’t and neither would Premier League players. You had to have seen him to realise just how good he was.
Edit: I like Leif. He a terrific player and a real asset to us. Is he in the same bracket as some that have been mentioned? Not for me - yet. [Post edited 10 Nov 14:35]
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| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 14:48 - Nov 10 with 327 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 14:29 - Nov 10 by Churchman |
I can say having seen them, they would have had no problem in the modern era. Beattie would be the best defender in the country. He was fast, aggressive, powerful, had a real jump on him and a net busting shot. That was with a ball about 25% heavier, dead pitches, heavy kit, rubbish medical care too much booze and a hardly scientific diet.
Burley, Wark, Mills and Mariner could easily have played in this era too. As a fetch and carrier, talbot would have been fine and there is always room for people that could play and pass like the Dutchmen.
Mills and Osman were two footed so could play either side. Osman might have struggled height wise as would have Hunter. And Cooper was small even then so no chance now for him.
The game is consistently faster now thanks to fitness, diet and pitches. But the old days matches tended to ebb and flow from slow to fast. It’s how it was.
But back to Beattie, to say that modern championship players would run rings round him? They wouldn’t and neither would Premier League players. You had to have seen him to realise just how good he was.
Edit: I like Leif. He a terrific player and a real asset to us. Is he in the same bracket as some that have been mentioned? Not for me - yet. [Post edited 10 Nov 14:35]
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Just to be clear, I don't doubt that Beattie could have been a top player in the modern game - after all, he clearly had to have the natural ability. My point is that everything about the modern game is much quicker, stronger, more athletic, more tactical, more analysed. To compete in the Premier League nowadays, he'd be playing against the best players in the world rather than just the best players in the British Isles. We'll never know what Kevin Beattie could have been if he'd been raised in a modern day Man City type academy unfortunately. | |
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| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 16:44 - Nov 10 with 282 views | mellowblue |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 14:48 - Nov 10 by ThatMuhrenCross |
Just to be clear, I don't doubt that Beattie could have been a top player in the modern game - after all, he clearly had to have the natural ability. My point is that everything about the modern game is much quicker, stronger, more athletic, more tactical, more analysed. To compete in the Premier League nowadays, he'd be playing against the best players in the world rather than just the best players in the British Isles. We'll never know what Kevin Beattie could have been if he'd been raised in a modern day Man City type academy unfortunately. |
I am confident he would still be at the top of the tree today and a regular international. He had everything. Far more than just a defender. | | | |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 17:47 - Nov 10 with 254 views | ITFC_History |
As of yet Leif isn’t in my reserve 11 of all time.
But this does make me ask myself, what does he (or for anyone else for that matter) have to do to get into my greatest 11. |  | | |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 18:26 - Nov 10 with 241 views | blueoutlook |
Course not. How old are you are you 15? |  | | |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 18:55 - Nov 10 with 227 views | Churchman |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 14:48 - Nov 10 by ThatMuhrenCross |
Just to be clear, I don't doubt that Beattie could have been a top player in the modern game - after all, he clearly had to have the natural ability. My point is that everything about the modern game is much quicker, stronger, more athletic, more tactical, more analysed. To compete in the Premier League nowadays, he'd be playing against the best players in the world rather than just the best players in the British Isles. We'll never know what Kevin Beattie could have been if he'd been raised in a modern day Man City type academy unfortunately. |
The modern game is continuous, not quicker in itself. It was slow, then quick and back again. Partly because of pitches. I noticed the Town tv people commenting on how bad Swanseas pitch was. Compared to 50 years ago it was a billiard table.
Back to pace if you ever saw QPRs Dave Thomas piling down the wing in the late 70s you’d know appreciate that. I’ve explained what’s changed and that makes a difference. Beattie wouldn’t have needed Man City’s Academy. The Ipswich one of the time was as good as anywhere for its time.
I just imagine KB running with the ball now. Back then the crowd would rise; hold their breath and the opposition animals knew bruises were on their way when they tried to stop him. Now? No idea what they’d do.
A player is a player and in their way and time, players in the past offered more in some regards, less in others (diet etc), but ultimately ability and DNA hasn’t changed. Klinsmann, Lineker, Maradona and players of that era were only 10 years after Beattie and co. I doubt anyone would question whether they could play now. And don’t forget, Ipswich played in Europe every year for ten years against the best and weren’t too shabby.
If you say take the best of them like George Best, Pele or Cruyff, they’d have been unplayable in the modern game, not least because the modern game has all but outlawed tackling. | | | |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 21:45 - Nov 10 with 189 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 17:47 - Nov 9 by Scuzzer |
No...not really. We've had much better even in more recent years. Cresswell, Clapham, Hereiderson, Mings. |
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| Is Leif in our.greatest.11 on 14:33 - Nov 11 with 118 views | Everydayblue |
I think Mick Mills has "retired" the LB position, in terms of our greatest 11.. (imo)
But Leif is amazing.
Can you imagine what it would cost to replace him these days.?
Pace, stamina, unselfishness, loyalty to the club and KM. Always gives 100%. Hardly ever injured, likeable personality, no baggage.. Great left foot for deliveries. Absolute thorn to opposition. And growing into being one of our leaders out there...
1.5 million he cost us. That's an amazing bit of recruitment by MA/KM | | | |
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