| George Hirst 16:47 - Nov 9 with 2133 views | cbower |
Now don't get me wrong, Hirst has many strong attributes as a centre forward. His workrate is great, he can run the channels well and occupy defenders. When on his game, his hold up play can be decent as is his movement. So far this season his touch has not been as good as in previous seasons and whilst he has 5 goals this season and is heading for 15+ in the season, he is not the greatest of finishers.
All in all, that's relatively positive I guess, but there are a few things I find frustrating. Firstly, he sometimes fails to really challenge for high balls despite his size. Secondly, and I saw this again yesterday, on occasion he is just not aggressive enough when the ball goes into the penalty box. I'd like to see him be more physical at times, not allow centre halves free headers or goalkeepers free catches. Minor stuff maybe but it would make a significant difference.
Note, I do appreciate how hard he works before anyone decides I'm being negative after a 4-1 away win. |  |
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| George Hirst on 17:02 - Nov 9 with 1986 views | blueislander |
I think you may have discovered why he is playing in the Championship rather than in the Champions League. |  | | |
| George Hirst on 17:08 - Nov 9 with 1946 views | NthQldITFC |
Touch and link up play really good yesterday, and last couple of games.
Workrate/pressing always good.
Backs into defenders under high balls but doesn't tend to challenge for the ball. Might be a percentages thing - when you're up top on your own you can't really flick on or even nod back to anyone under pressure from a big CB, but if you put the CB under enough pressure without fouling him, you can impede their clearances and generate a lot of second ball stuff for the support forwards - this, I think is the strategy of not trying to outright win those types of headers, and I think it works pretty well for us
Attacking balls into the box is one area where I think we are currently weak. We rarely seem to come from back to front post when attacking crosses, looking for the front post flick (head or foot or arse!) using the pace on a well hit cross to beat the keeper. Chappers was great at it. |  |
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| George Hirst on 17:09 - Nov 9 with 1933 views | cbower |
| George Hirst on 17:02 - Nov 9 by blueislander |
I think you may have discovered why he is playing in the Championship rather than in the Champions League. |
I sense a little 'no $hit Sherlock' in your response but perversely, I thought he looked better in his appearances in the Premier League than this season - more at it than he is at the moment. | |
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| George Hirst on 17:11 - Nov 9 with 1908 views | cbower |
| George Hirst on 17:08 - Nov 9 by NthQldITFC |
Touch and link up play really good yesterday, and last couple of games.
Workrate/pressing always good.
Backs into defenders under high balls but doesn't tend to challenge for the ball. Might be a percentages thing - when you're up top on your own you can't really flick on or even nod back to anyone under pressure from a big CB, but if you put the CB under enough pressure without fouling him, you can impede their clearances and generate a lot of second ball stuff for the support forwards - this, I think is the strategy of not trying to outright win those types of headers, and I think it works pretty well for us
Attacking balls into the box is one area where I think we are currently weak. We rarely seem to come from back to front post when attacking crosses, looking for the front post flick (head or foot or arse!) using the pace on a well hit cross to beat the keeper. Chappers was great at it. |
Good post that. | |
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| George Hirst on 17:12 - Nov 9 with 1893 views | J2BLUE |
I thought he played well yesterday. |  |
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| George Hirst on 17:15 - Nov 9 with 1881 views | DJR |
| George Hirst on 17:08 - Nov 9 by NthQldITFC |
Touch and link up play really good yesterday, and last couple of games.
Workrate/pressing always good.
Backs into defenders under high balls but doesn't tend to challenge for the ball. Might be a percentages thing - when you're up top on your own you can't really flick on or even nod back to anyone under pressure from a big CB, but if you put the CB under enough pressure without fouling him, you can impede their clearances and generate a lot of second ball stuff for the support forwards - this, I think is the strategy of not trying to outright win those types of headers, and I think it works pretty well for us
Attacking balls into the box is one area where I think we are currently weak. We rarely seem to come from back to front post when attacking crosses, looking for the front post flick (head or foot or arse!) using the pace on a well hit cross to beat the keeper. Chappers was great at it. |
One thing that galls me is that defenders (this season in particular) are able to manhandle him without sanction, but when he did something not dissimilar a few weeks ago, the goal was disallowed (I can't remember whether he took the shot or laid it to someone else).
When I was playing thirty odd years ago, I always thought that defenders weren't supposed to raise their arms but that rule seems to have gone out of the window. [Post edited 9 Nov 17:21]
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| George Hirst on 17:16 - Nov 9 with 1871 views | Churchman |
Interesting post. Firstly, I really rate Hirst. I think he’s an excellent player. I’ve seen enough of him live to offer that opinion.
The positives you mention are as I see it. In fact his movement is better than decent. He brings others into the game and makes space - something Delap has to learn. His attitude is good too.
No, he’s not a Lineker style goal machine. Nor does he beat people up like Shearer used to and Haaland does. But his goal ratio is ok for the type of player he is.
Could he be more physical? Maybe, but he is injury prone which for me is his biggest problem. Yes, his form has not been the best this season. But for me he’s still first choice for what he brings to the table. You keep playing him. His form will improve (I hope) He could do with a settled no 10 in the team too.
To rate him, I’d say he’s top end Championship standard with enough ability to play in a lower Premier team squad. |  | | |
| George Hirst on 17:23 - Nov 9 with 1810 views | southnorfolkblue |
| George Hirst on 17:15 - Nov 9 by DJR |
One thing that galls me is that defenders (this season in particular) are able to manhandle him without sanction, but when he did something not dissimilar a few weeks ago, the goal was disallowed (I can't remember whether he took the shot or laid it to someone else).
When I was playing thirty odd years ago, I always thought that defenders weren't supposed to raise their arms but that rule seems to have gone out of the window. [Post edited 9 Nov 17:21]
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You’re thinking about the Norwich game where Philogene scored from his lay off | |
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| George Hirst on 17:30 - Nov 9 with 1751 views | Garv |
It sounds like you're essentially asking him to be bigger and stronger, which he can't really be without getting in the gym and bulking up, which would mean he probably loses a yard of pace. He is tall and can be decent in the air, but he's not your typical physical championship number nine who is going to put his head on everything and clean everyone out. And that's not a bad thing, because he means he's mobile, can press and get around the pitch, and run in behind.
I think if he tried to be more aggressive and physical he would just end up giving away fouls. |  |
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| George Hirst on 17:32 - Nov 9 with 1715 views | DJR |
| George Hirst on 17:23 - Nov 9 by southnorfolkblue |
You’re thinking about the Norwich game where Philogene scored from his lay off |
Yes, it must have been that one. [Post edited 9 Nov 17:34]
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| George Hirst on 17:35 - Nov 9 with 1678 views | Fixed_It |
| George Hirst on 17:15 - Nov 9 by DJR |
One thing that galls me is that defenders (this season in particular) are able to manhandle him without sanction, but when he did something not dissimilar a few weeks ago, the goal was disallowed (I can't remember whether he took the shot or laid it to someone else).
When I was playing thirty odd years ago, I always thought that defenders weren't supposed to raise their arms but that rule seems to have gone out of the window. [Post edited 9 Nov 17:21]
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There is a little known rule in Association Football that George Hirst can't challenge for a ball without being penalised, but defenders can challenge him however they wish with impunity. |  |
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| George Hirst on 18:09 - Nov 9 with 1543 views | gainsboroughblue |
| George Hirst on 17:32 - Nov 9 by DJR |
Yes, it must have been that one. [Post edited 9 Nov 17:34]
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There was another time where Hirst netted and it was disallowed. Sheff U game? |  |
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| George Hirst on 18:11 - Nov 9 with 1528 views | sundayroast |
its not negative, its an observation of something that happened across a number of games.
I too agree with what you say | | | |
| George Hirst on 18:12 - Nov 9 with 1509 views | Swansea_Blue |
I’m not sure you can have an athletic Arabian horse and then expect it to pull a plough. He is what he is. He runs, chases lost causes, occupies CBs even if he can’t always win the physical battle and does have a decent finish on him sometimes. |  |
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| George Hirst on 18:18 - Nov 9 with 1508 views | homer_123 |
Not unfair observations.
I would argue though, that what he offers is more akin to what KM wants from that position.
Goals are important but actually, there is far more to that role than goals. Setting the press, working the defenders, link up play, harrying.
If you watch him, his work 'off the ball' is immense and, I believe, this is where KM rates him. He's, arguably, a better fit for the 'team' than Delap - in that he is unselfish, whereas Delap has that selfish streak which means he might get you a few more goals, but at the detriment of the wider team.
Can Hirst be better? Yes, for sure - and that isn't saying he's poor - he does an awful lot right, a lot of which goes unnoticed unless you just watch him. |  |
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| George Hirst on 20:05 - Nov 9 with 1242 views | ArnieM |
| George Hirst on 17:08 - Nov 9 by NthQldITFC |
Touch and link up play really good yesterday, and last couple of games.
Workrate/pressing always good.
Backs into defenders under high balls but doesn't tend to challenge for the ball. Might be a percentages thing - when you're up top on your own you can't really flick on or even nod back to anyone under pressure from a big CB, but if you put the CB under enough pressure without fouling him, you can impede their clearances and generate a lot of second ball stuff for the support forwards - this, I think is the strategy of not trying to outright win those types of headers, and I think it works pretty well for us
Attacking balls into the box is one area where I think we are currently weak. We rarely seem to come from back to front post when attacking crosses, looking for the front post flick (head or foot or arse!) using the pace on a well hit cross to beat the keeper. Chappers was great at it. |
I think you've got Hirst's role under McKenna to an absolute Tee, and uts why KMCK likes him so much and persists with him. Hirst is very much underrated in some quarters I feel. I love him. |  |
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| George Hirst on 20:59 - Nov 9 with 1120 views | Blue_Heath |
His general play is good although agree with your comment about touch.
A bit like Azon he's not a natural goalscorer so 15 is probably his ceiling.
That said our proven scorers Akpom and Szmodics score even less!
Very odd. | | | |
| George Hirst on 21:08 - Nov 9 with 1078 views | bournemouthblue |
| George Hirst on 17:09 - Nov 9 by cbower |
I sense a little 'no $hit Sherlock' in your response but perversely, I thought he looked better in his appearances in the Premier League than this season - more at it than he is at the moment. |
Hirst is what he is, I'd like to see more at times but he works hard, is deceptively quick for a big guy and hard to deal with aerially
Do we need better in the long run? Yes but is it a problem at the moment, not really
We were linked with Cadamateri at Wednesday who does look quite lively and could be an interesting one
Azon is growing and does some things better than Hirst, his work rate is infectious, you want him to do well |  |
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| George Hirst on 21:45 - Nov 9 with 925 views | Everydayblue |
His unselfish work rate, engine, and bullishness are exactly what KM needs in a front man..
See also Azon....
Neither have been prolific scorers this season. Although Hirst isn't too shabby..
But both bring so much more to the pitch, imo.
As KM described Azon as being "a handful". You can definitely put Hirst in that category as well, imo.
And at 1.5million we paid for HIrsty. I think we get a lot out of him. The best out of him ?Albeit, as you say. There will be games when he's a bit below par from his top standard.
Atm, there's no real competition for him, in the role he plays.. Which means, imo, he gets flogged a bit. And every now and then looks a bit jaded, as a result. | | | |
| George Hirst on 21:56 - Nov 9 with 875 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| George Hirst on 17:35 - Nov 9 by Fixed_It |
There is a little known rule in Association Football that George Hirst can't challenge for a ball without being penalised, but defenders can challenge him however they wish with impunity. |
Was it against nodge that the defender went down from the slightest of contact from Hirst and got the free kick. I thought, had that been the other way round, there is no way the foul is given and the defender gets a red card as the last man.
I suppose it is similar with Greaves (although it seems he often doesn't get the decision) when he goes down very easily. |  |
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| George Hirst on 22:44 - Nov 9 with 779 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| George Hirst on 17:08 - Nov 9 by NthQldITFC |
Touch and link up play really good yesterday, and last couple of games.
Workrate/pressing always good.
Backs into defenders under high balls but doesn't tend to challenge for the ball. Might be a percentages thing - when you're up top on your own you can't really flick on or even nod back to anyone under pressure from a big CB, but if you put the CB under enough pressure without fouling him, you can impede their clearances and generate a lot of second ball stuff for the support forwards - this, I think is the strategy of not trying to outright win those types of headers, and I think it works pretty well for us
Attacking balls into the box is one area where I think we are currently weak. We rarely seem to come from back to front post when attacking crosses, looking for the front post flick (head or foot or arse!) using the pace on a well hit cross to beat the keeper. Chappers was great at it. |
What I have noticed with Hirst is that he either wins what seems like 90% of headers against a particular Centre Back, or 10%.
It feels like he tries to win a couple of headers, and if he doesn't manage to, he doesn't challenge for them as much for the r St of the game.
If he does win those first couple of headers he then feels he has the heating of them, and wins most of the headers.
I'm not expecting anyone else to have noticed it or to agree with me, but maybe look out for it in the future. And if you agree with me, explain it to Leif, Clarke and Walle Egeli, so that if he stops going for the headers they don't bother putting in the high crosses. | | | |
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