| Streeting calling out the BMA 09:57 - Nov 14 with 1240 views | noggin |
That will help the situation. |  |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:12 - Nov 14 with 329 views | Steve_M |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 11:43 - Nov 14 by giant_stow |
I think if you look at a Dr's standard of living over a full career, they would be in the top few percent of wealth in this country. total guess, of course, but I'm pretty confident that would be true and if so, the rewards are relatively huge.
There may be some even more wealthy people out there, but in terms of normal trades, professions and careers, they're right up there.
If there's money to be found to increase wages in the NHS, then fairness would dictate you'd look after nurses and ancillary workers now, who all had a much more smaller rise than drs, but in many ways do a role just as important. We should look after the less well off, no? |
It's a good salary for a consultant, so probably 30+ before being qualified, but it's not that high in London or the immediate surroundings. The real problem though is that it's been eroded considerably over the last 15 years so the current situation incentivises doctors to do private work as it's mor lucrative - or for younger ones to emigrate.
However, this government has made moves to put the disparity right for resident doctors, not full restoration but a good way towards that, so to demand more isn't a good look.
* Obviously, doctors aren't the only profession to have seen salaries and benefits eroded but they are one of the most egregious examples. |  |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:13 - Nov 14 with 329 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 11:44 - Nov 14 by MattinLondon |
Why should doctors, nurses and engineers get preferential treatment? |
Because they are what the Country needs. Far too many degrees are of little value career wise.
I would also suggest there are many degree courses that could be completed satisfactorily in two years .
We need to remodel society, a root and branch review. |  |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:20 - Nov 14 with 307 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 10:08 - Nov 14 by noggin |
I guess it depends on how you value NHS doctors. |
Think you should know from my posting history that your question is wide of the mark
Just that after a large pay increase last year and there not being much money around to strike in support of another large one seems poor timing and judgement
I fully support all doctors and don't begrudge any including consultants a penny of what they earn.
A very difficult job with huge responsibility |  | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:33 - Nov 14 with 292 views | Herbivore |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:13 - Nov 14 by Pinewoodblue |
Because they are what the Country needs. Far too many degrees are of little value career wise.
I would also suggest there are many degree courses that could be completed satisfactorily in two years .
We need to remodel society, a root and branch review. |
I don't fully know when or why it happened but the current notion that higher education is or should be solely about career development really irks me. Young people gain lots of other valuable skills and life experiences at university and there are plenty of degrees that don't have a clear vocational route that are still valuable. Education shouldn't just be seen as a means to an end, it has intrinsic as well as instrumental value. |  |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:55 - Nov 14 with 255 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:33 - Nov 14 by Herbivore |
I don't fully know when or why it happened but the current notion that higher education is or should be solely about career development really irks me. Young people gain lots of other valuable skills and life experiences at university and there are plenty of degrees that don't have a clear vocational route that are still valuable. Education shouldn't just be seen as a means to an end, it has intrinsic as well as instrumental value. |
I agree with you but they could be completed within two years.
A two tier degree system if you like. Anyone going on to obtain a teaching diploma should also be feee of student fees while they complete a third year. | |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:58 - Nov 14 with 250 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 10:24 - Nov 14 by Steve_M |
He's calling out resident doctors (formerly known as junior doctors) who, despite a large pay rise last year, are insisting on another one.
They had a point last year, much less of one now. Anecdotally, fewer of them are striking this time anyway. |
BBC Fact check points out that doctors' pay is still 19% lower than in 2008, if you use RPI as the benchmark. If you use CPI, then it is still down, but only by 7%.
7% could be found pretty easily by making adjustments to loan repayment requirements, as others have suggested.
All that said, UK doctors are very underpaid compared with international standards. |  | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:00 - Nov 14 with 245 views | WD19 |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 10:19 - Nov 14 by noggin |
A union is it's members. |
Bad news for UNITE members if true, because it would make them all useless, hateful c**ts. |  | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:04 - Nov 14 with 238 views | MattinLondon |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:13 - Nov 14 by Pinewoodblue |
Because they are what the Country needs. Far too many degrees are of little value career wise.
I would also suggest there are many degree courses that could be completed satisfactorily in two years .
We need to remodel society, a root and branch review. |
I do think that too many people go to university. I do know a lawyer and their firm is currently promoting a sort of apprenticeship where young people go to university for two days a week and the other three days are within the law firm learning from various solicitors. Schemes like this, are in my opinion much more beneficial to employers and to a lot of young people as well.
And I agree with you that society needs a total reboot - for example education, it’s ludicrous that a lot of stuff kids learn at high school is totally forgotten in adult life - or is not needed. |  | | |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:20 - Nov 14 with 198 views | leitrimblue |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:00 - Nov 14 by WD19 |
Bad news for UNITE members if true, because it would make them all useless, hateful c**ts. |
Pardon, could you explain further? |  | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:26 - Nov 14 with 183 views | WD19 |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:20 - Nov 14 by leitrimblue |
Pardon, could you explain further? |
I was just challenging the notion that a union is always a positive and faithful representation of its members. No all unions are equal. | | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:59 - Nov 14 with 156 views | leitrimblue |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:26 - Nov 14 by WD19 |
I was just challenging the notion that a union is always a positive and faithful representation of its members. No all unions are equal. |
And how would that equate to them being 'useless hateful c**ts'? | | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 15:05 - Nov 14 with 142 views | WD19 |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 14:59 - Nov 14 by leitrimblue |
And how would that equate to them being 'useless hateful c**ts'? |
Because that is my experience of paid representatives of that particular union. I wouldnt want their membership to be tarred with that brush. | | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 15:56 - Nov 14 with 115 views | OldFart71 |
Having had experience of working as a Civil Servant under both major party's I can only say that under Labour we had decent pay increases every year and then under the Tories it fell off a cliff.
We got an annual bonus under Labour and when the Tories got in you had to have been next to God to get a bonus.
So I have sympathy with Resident doctors because as they say their pay has fallen well behind what it should be.
But then so have most people's pay not keep up with prices.
I recently heard it said that at one time our pay in this Country was equal to those in the USA. If it had kept pace it would be 50% more.
But all things taken into account I cannot see that it is possible to give another large group a pay increase of 20% plus at this time unless many of the things that are impacting our economy are sorted very quickly. | | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 16:15 - Nov 14 with 103 views | OldFart71 |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 10:35 - Nov 14 by ElderGrizzly |
Government are in a no-win situation tbh.
Doctors in 'westernised' countries such as Canada, Australia etc are in short supply and pay much better.
Canada are about to start a campaign to bring in 4,000 doctors targeting the UK in particular.
If we don't pay them well enough and provide a duty of care they are going to leave. |
My Granddaughter is a trainee doctor and when in Canada in 2024 a lady who was our tour guide told us that they were building a new hospital and that they were recruiting doctors and would pay several thousand dollars just to sign on and as you say the money can be double or more in some of these Countries. We were in Cornerbrook at Captain James Cooks statue. | | | |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 16:18 - Nov 14 with 101 views | DanTheMan |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 13:58 - Nov 14 by Freddies_Ears |
BBC Fact check points out that doctors' pay is still 19% lower than in 2008, if you use RPI as the benchmark. If you use CPI, then it is still down, but only by 7%.
7% could be found pretty easily by making adjustments to loan repayment requirements, as others have suggested.
All that said, UK doctors are very underpaid compared with international standards. |
Seems like an easy win to me, if you work for the NHS for X years instead of going private, they'll pay for your student debt. |  |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 16:24 - Nov 14 with 95 views | tractordownsouth |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 16:18 - Nov 14 by DanTheMan |
Seems like an easy win to me, if you work for the NHS for X years instead of going private, they'll pay for your student debt. |
That system is already in place in Wales. My partner is a nurse and she doesn't have to pay her fees back as she's worked in the Welsh NHS for more than 2 years.
There's probably a strong case that there should be a longer qualifying period but the principle is a good one. |  |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 17:12 - Nov 14 with 64 views | LeoMuff |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 16:15 - Nov 14 by OldFart71 |
My Granddaughter is a trainee doctor and when in Canada in 2024 a lady who was our tour guide told us that they were building a new hospital and that they were recruiting doctors and would pay several thousand dollars just to sign on and as you say the money can be double or more in some of these Countries. We were in Cornerbrook at Captain James Cooks statue. |
It always amazes me that I have at least 3 friends in tax and banking that earn more than a neuro surgeon just about the most technical and responsible job you could imagine.
Says it all for me. |  |
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| Streeting calling out the BMA on 20:16 - Nov 14 with 22 views | peterleeblue |
| Streeting calling out the BMA on 16:18 - Nov 14 by DanTheMan |
Seems like an easy win to me, if you work for the NHS for X years instead of going private, they'll pay for your student debt. |
What about those who don't have student debt?
Some (as well as their families) have made sacrifices to ensure their sons and daughters can work debt free and not be depressed by the negative effect of reverse compound interest.
I wont derail the thread but the same applies for means testing state pensions. |  | | |
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