| Hirst yellow 21:14 - Dec 6 with 3743 views | LeoMuff |
Can’t believe the amount of Coventry whinging on this, why ruin a perfectly decent match by sending him off for possibly kicking the ball away ? I can’t see many refs doing that. There has to be a higher threshold for a second yellow than that.
The first yellow was a joke anyways. |  |
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| Hirst yellow on 08:48 - Dec 7 with 571 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Hirst yellow on 21:58 - Dec 6 by Guthrum |
I disagree. Think it's quite a different matter for a striker to go through with their shot while running at goal than for an uninvolved player to boot the ball away randomly several seconds after the whistle has blown and everything stopped. The former is in the flow, the latter a deliberate attempt to delay the game. |
That was my take once I’d had the chance to think about it after the game, although I was worried at the time.
I’m not sure of the exact rule - hopefully something on here can clarify, but wasn’t Walton’s handball more of a red card? Don’t think Lampard even mentioned it, so may be Im wrong |  |
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| Hirst yellow on 09:07 - Dec 7 with 520 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Hirst yellow on 21:32 - Dec 6 by ArnieM |
Just as well he stayed on thrn wasnt it. Great goal which will do the world of good for his confidence. You coukd see what it meant to him , and the rest if the team, AND the majority of us fans!
George Hirst IS a very good player and brings a lot to our forward line. Dont forget he was dumped by McKenna for most of last season and I'd be amazed it that didnt knock his confidence.
But, He never stops running and always gives his all. Yes his game is not what it can be atm, but Hirst was pivotal in our promotion from the CC 2 seasons ago and it will be again this season. |
Dumped by McKenna? He was injured pre season so McKenna had the choice if either starting Delap or Al Hamadi. By the time Hirst was fit again Delap was our most outstanding player, being touted as the next Harry Kane. Hirst then got inured again at Spurs and was out until the latter part of the season.
I know you’re in the anti McKenna camp but you are stretching the truth with that bizarre claim. |  |
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| Hirst yellow on 09:25 - Dec 7 with 483 views | Dennyx4 |
| Hirst yellow on 08:48 - Dec 7 by southnorfolkblue |
That was my take once I’d had the chance to think about it after the game, although I was worried at the time.
I’m not sure of the exact rule - hopefully something on here can clarify, but wasn’t Walton’s handball more of a red card? Don’t think Lampard even mentioned it, so may be Im wrong |
Handball is only a red if stopping a DOGSO ( Denying an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity).
Thought Yellow was right, as not a goal scoring opportunity. |  | | |
| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 09:42 - Dec 7 with 458 views | unstableblue |
Mick Mills who has become captain negative in his punditry was also saying Hirst should have gone
I really didn’t see it like that
First a big factor in Lampard and the Cov fans being disgruntled was that Josh Eccles had been shown a yellow for kicking the ball away earlier.
Well that incident was different to Hirst’s.
Hirst knew the flag had gone up but he was still in motion in the attacking move, and was trying a shot. The play had stopped around Eccles, players were resetting and then he kicked the ball deliberately.
Also a second yellow is often deemed as needing to be tougher than the initial. It would have ruined what was a good game. |  |
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| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 09:46 - Dec 7 with 445 views | Dubtractor |
| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 09:42 - Dec 7 by unstableblue |
Mick Mills who has become captain negative in his punditry was also saying Hirst should have gone
I really didn’t see it like that
First a big factor in Lampard and the Cov fans being disgruntled was that Josh Eccles had been shown a yellow for kicking the ball away earlier.
Well that incident was different to Hirst’s.
Hirst knew the flag had gone up but he was still in motion in the attacking move, and was trying a shot. The play had stopped around Eccles, players were resetting and then he kicked the ball deliberately.
Also a second yellow is often deemed as needing to be tougher than the initial. It would have ruined what was a good game. |
I increasingly find Mills an annoying listen in the car on the way home. We'd just won 3-0, and you'd think it was a frustrating 0-0 or something yesterday. Absolutely fair that we took a while to get going, but you'd think Coventry were killing us rather than slightly edging a tight game from the way he summed it up. |  |
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| Hirst yellow on 09:50 - Dec 7 with 432 views | Rozeeboy74 |
| Hirst yellow on 21:58 - Dec 6 by Guthrum |
I disagree. Think it's quite a different matter for a striker to go through with their shot while running at goal than for an uninvolved player to boot the ball away randomly several seconds after the whistle has blown and everything stopped. The former is in the flow, the latter a deliberate attempt to delay the game. |
I think a lot of these saying the Hirst situation was the same are the type that watch dash-cam videos saying, "I would have stopped in time," and "I would have avoided that accident ". If you watch the situation from behind the goal, you can see the referee put his whistle to his mouth and it's not long before Hirst strikes the ball. I think him slowing down is more a reaction to the flag going up.
As a side note, my Mrs just said Frank has aged. That's football management for you. | | | |
| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 11:56 - Dec 7 with 354 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 09:42 - Dec 7 by unstableblue |
Mick Mills who has become captain negative in his punditry was also saying Hirst should have gone
I really didn’t see it like that
First a big factor in Lampard and the Cov fans being disgruntled was that Josh Eccles had been shown a yellow for kicking the ball away earlier.
Well that incident was different to Hirst’s.
Hirst knew the flag had gone up but he was still in motion in the attacking move, and was trying a shot. The play had stopped around Eccles, players were resetting and then he kicked the ball deliberately.
Also a second yellow is often deemed as needing to be tougher than the initial. It would have ruined what was a good game. |
He should have goner by the letter of the law. | |
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| Hirst yellow on 11:59 - Dec 7 with 348 views | Trequartista |
It was because of the booking earlier to a Coventry player in a similar situation.
Regardless of that, can you imagine if this scenario was reversed? There is no way on earth we would be saying the same thing. |  |
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| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 12:00 - Dec 7 with 349 views | Trequartista |
| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 09:42 - Dec 7 by unstableblue |
Mick Mills who has become captain negative in his punditry was also saying Hirst should have gone
I really didn’t see it like that
First a big factor in Lampard and the Cov fans being disgruntled was that Josh Eccles had been shown a yellow for kicking the ball away earlier.
Well that incident was different to Hirst’s.
Hirst knew the flag had gone up but he was still in motion in the attacking move, and was trying a shot. The play had stopped around Eccles, players were resetting and then he kicked the ball deliberately.
Also a second yellow is often deemed as needing to be tougher than the initial. It would have ruined what was a good game. |
It looked to me like Hirst heard the whistle, stopped, and then had a shot. | |
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| Hirst yellow on 12:04 - Dec 7 with 341 views | patrickswell |
Have only seen the highlights, but it looks like we got away with a few decisions yesterday. I suspect there is every chance the pendulum will swing the other way on those in the return fixture. |  | | |
| Hirst yellow on 12:36 - Dec 7 with 316 views | glasso |
I think there's an element here of Hirst's behaviour being a direct consequence of the new rules - i.e. that a Lino can flag but often the ref will carry on until the play finishes and then pull it back.
Not sure if that's just a VAR/Prem thing, but Paul Tierney has been a Prem ref and Hirst just finished a Prem season, so he might be more understanding of a player who carries on, finishes the attack and then expects to get pulled back.
I think it's a bit daft of the rules to suggest that a ref can continue an attack then pull it back 2 minutes later, but a player should know to stop immediately or risk a yellow/red card.
We'd be fuming if Hirst saw the flag, stopped running and then the ref overruled the Lino and waved play on.
Not saying I wasn't half expecting a red, btw, and I can understand Cov fans being miffed about it, but as has been said elsewhere on this thread I don't think it's as clear cut as 'Hirst is an idiot and deserves to be sent off.' | | | |
| Hirst yellow on 12:40 - Dec 7 with 302 views | bazza |
| Hirst yellow on 21:17 - Dec 6 by MillsTash |
First was a yellow all day long - No where near winning the ball, stopped their attack, and got the back of their players achilles. [Post edited 6 Dec 21:17]
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In fairness we’ve just come down from the premier league, where you give the opportunity to take the shot before the flag goes up.. hirst was on a 1vs1 with the keeper, totally understandable that he could take a shot.. |  | | |
| Hirst yellow on 12:50 - Dec 7 with 277 views | Herbivore |
| Hirst yellow on 12:04 - Dec 7 by patrickswell |
Have only seen the highlights, but it looks like we got away with a few decisions yesterday. I suspect there is every chance the pendulum will swing the other way on those in the return fixture. |
Not sure about that, thought the ref was fairly average and gave some for and against both sides that they'd question. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, he saw Eccles blatantly dive and signalled as much but then didn't book him for simulation as he was already on a yellow. He was as lucky a boy as Hirst not to see red, imo. |  |
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| Hirst yellow on 12:59 - Dec 7 with 260 views | OldFart71 |
I think the gripe is more to do with consistency than the fact he wasn't booked. A Coventry player was booked for kicking the ball away after Town's players appealed. Whoever it is it's bad sportsmanship asking for a player to be booked. A good ref decides himself. If he then books a player he sets himself up for complaints that he doesn't do the same thing for a similar offence.
It's the same with VAR where you see a red card, a goal disallowed or some other offence where for one team a decision goes one way and for another a totally different decision. | | | |
| Hirst yellow on 13:11 - Dec 7 with 240 views | LeoMuff |
| Hirst yellow on 12:59 - Dec 7 by OldFart71 |
I think the gripe is more to do with consistency than the fact he wasn't booked. A Coventry player was booked for kicking the ball away after Town's players appealed. Whoever it is it's bad sportsmanship asking for a player to be booked. A good ref decides himself. If he then books a player he sets himself up for complaints that he doesn't do the same thing for a similar offence.
It's the same with VAR where you see a red card, a goal disallowed or some other offence where for one team a decision goes one way and for another a totally different decision. |
Not the same situation though, I wouldn’t expect a Coventry player to be booked for what Hirst did and wouldn’t be surprised if a town player was booked for what Eccles did.
One player very clearly knew the whistle had gone as play stopped and players were walking towards him, Only Hirst will know if he heard the whistle but way to much doubt to send him off | |
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| Hirst yellow on 13:16 - Dec 7 with 233 views | Ryorry |
| Hirst yellow on 22:17 - Dec 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Everyone on here would be losing it if it happened the other way, let’s be honest. They were probably more interested in a result than a decent game. It would have been much less a topic if he didn’t book a Cov player for exactly the same thing. |
It wasn't "exactly the same thing", it was actually a very different situation, that's the point. |  |
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| Hirst yellow on 13:21 - Dec 7 with 221 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Hirst yellow on 09:25 - Dec 7 by Dennyx4 |
Handball is only a red if stopping a DOGSO ( Denying an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity).
Thought Yellow was right, as not a goal scoring opportunity. |
Thanks.
On that basis it was the right decision | |
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| Hirst yellow on 13:22 - Dec 7 with 216 views | waveneyblue |
| Hirst yellow on 21:19 - Dec 6 by BlueStreak |
He should have been off, simple as that, and it was for two pathetic things as well. First foul was just ridiculous and a def yellow as was the second. Cannot believe he wasn’t sent off and I was expecting KM to sub him straight after as he was having a stinker anyway, and you could see KM notably annoyed with his lack of touch. Def got away with one today but that’s life. |
I suggest milk rather than pi5s on your cornflakes.
It would make you much happier |  | | |
| Hirst yellow on 13:28 - Dec 7 with 197 views | mellowblue |
| Hirst yellow on 13:21 - Dec 7 by southnorfolkblue |
Thanks.
On that basis it was the right decision |
It was also pretty borderline, just a misjudgement and a brainfart really. | | | |
| Hirst yellow on 13:37 - Dec 7 with 178 views | PhilTWTD |
| Hirst yellow on 01:46 - Dec 7 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Two other things to note from that. At 3.24 Nunez plays the pass and Hirst is onside whilst Walle Egeli is the one who is beyond his man. Hirst is clearly shooting from a possible goalscoring position although he has probably heard the whistle. Is it reasonable for him to pull out of the shot he has already committed to? Our reaction in the crowd was "what are they appealing for?" followed by a realisation rather than an immediate "he could go for that!" |
Think Hirst was just off, but was very tight. I do wonder whether that came into the referee's thinking along with the harsh first booking.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Hirst yellow on 13:49 - Dec 7 with 151 views | Smoresy |
| Hirst yellow on 12:36 - Dec 7 by glasso |
I think there's an element here of Hirst's behaviour being a direct consequence of the new rules - i.e. that a Lino can flag but often the ref will carry on until the play finishes and then pull it back.
Not sure if that's just a VAR/Prem thing, but Paul Tierney has been a Prem ref and Hirst just finished a Prem season, so he might be more understanding of a player who carries on, finishes the attack and then expects to get pulled back.
I think it's a bit daft of the rules to suggest that a ref can continue an attack then pull it back 2 minutes later, but a player should know to stop immediately or risk a yellow/red card.
We'd be fuming if Hirst saw the flag, stopped running and then the ref overruled the Lino and waved play on.
Not saying I wasn't half expecting a red, btw, and I can understand Cov fans being miffed about it, but as has been said elsewhere on this thread I don't think it's as clear cut as 'Hirst is an idiot and deserves to be sent off.' |
I considered that yesterday but less relevant really as ref had blown his whistle. VAR couldn't allow a goal after that point.
I think the nuance around crowd noise, striker running through on goal in contrast to midfielder shooting from 30 yards once everyone around had stopped, is a very reasonable consideration.
Had situations been identical mind, I still see Hirst walking less than 20% of the time. We received the Eccles treatment ourselves with Kipre and Furlong in the second half. He was consistent on the first offence. Refs are routinely much more liberal with the first yellow than they are with the second. So appreciate their grievance and many of us would be bleating too, but nonetheless it was very normal ref behaviour. | | | |
| Agreed on 13:55 - Dec 7 with 130 views | unstableblue |
| Mick Mills was also saying a red - it really wasn’t on 12:00 - Dec 7 by Trequartista |
It looked to me like Hirst heard the whistle, stopped, and then had a shot. |
Hirst heard the whistle, looked to linesman, slowed and hit the shot… the time from whistle to shot was minimal
Their player earlier had stopped, remonstrated with ref, then booted towards north
There was a difference
But also it was a first yellow and would not have led to a sending off! | |
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| Hirst yellow on 13:57 - Dec 7 with 120 views | Blue_Heath |
The fact he stopped telling the ref in effect he was offside before leathering the ball, he was very lucky in my opinion. Likely 8/10 refs would have sent him off imo. That said great he finally kept his composure 1 on 1 for the second. | |
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| Hirst yellow on 14:09 - Dec 7 with 98 views | RadioOrwell |
| Hirst yellow on 11:59 - Dec 7 by Trequartista |
It was because of the booking earlier to a Coventry player in a similar situation.
Regardless of that, can you imagine if this scenario was reversed? There is no way on earth we would be saying the same thing. |
Not really a similar situation though.
Uninvolved played hoofing the ball away versus striker running at goal with every intention of shooting - hears whistle - and completes a shot which is what was entirely on his mind one second before.
Also, second yellows are, in reality, often held to a higher standard. Rightly or wrongly. [Post edited 7 Dec 14:23]
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| Hirst yellow on 14:15 - Dec 7 with 88 views | itfcjoe |
If you watch the match back, whilst Hirst knows he is offside because the flag is up the actual refs whistle doesn’t go until he’s about to shoot - whereas the whistle has gone before Eccles receives the ball, and he takes a touch then loops it tamely over
They really aren’t comparable incidents |  |
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