| Crystal Palace factions 15:58 - Dec 7 with 2771 views | DJR |
As someone who has lived in South Norwood and Thornton Heath, the following is a rather worrying development given how diverse north Croydon is. Crystal Palace has also for a long time been at the forefront of playing a large proportion of black players.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/dec/06/crystal-palace-fans-are-literal
The suggestion is that the rival faction (if that is what it is) comes from less diverse areas such as New Addington but the following appears to be a return to things that had in the main been largely driven out of the game since the 70s and 80s.
"They are believed to be the group heard singing pro-Tommy Robinson songs and spotted with “Stop the boats” flags during Palace’s trips to Lublin to play Dynamo Kyiv in October and Fredrikstad for a playoff a month earlier."
Can anyone with more local knowledge shed more light? Or is it just the case that such people are more likely to show a presence on trips abroad?
I might add that a linked report on the ultra faction (the Holmesdale Fanatics) talked about their fanatical support at Selhurst Park but it was non-existent at our away game last season. [Post edited 7 Dec 16:25]
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| Crystal Palace factions on 16:10 - Dec 7 with 2639 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Sounds like a terrible reflection of society with the enablement of those with racist agenda. |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 16:24 - Dec 7 with 2499 views | runaround |
Having been born in that area I really hope it’s just current society rather than a particular problem for the area. My memories of Thornton Heath, Norbury and SW16 area are all good ones and it remains a very special place to me but this might clouded by sentimental feelings. My only memory of anything untoward like this was seeing a bit of National Front graffiti in a park once.
I enjoyed the multicultural atmosphere of the area as I enjoy the multicultural feel of the area of IP1 where I now reside.
It saddens me when I see and hear racism as we are all part of the same race, the human race |  | | |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:25 - Dec 7 with 2502 views | Edmundo |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:10 - Dec 7 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Sounds like a terrible reflection of society with the enablement of those with racist agenda. |
They're not alone: last season there were a few Tommy Robinson chants and more brazen racist comments I heard about at Town away matches. Thankfully none that have been heard at Portman Road, but the far right are feeling powerful enough to stand up and shout obscenities at "foreign looking " people in public these days, it seems |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 16:28 - Dec 7 with 2474 views | DJR |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:24 - Dec 7 by runaround |
Having been born in that area I really hope it’s just current society rather than a particular problem for the area. My memories of Thornton Heath, Norbury and SW16 area are all good ones and it remains a very special place to me but this might clouded by sentimental feelings. My only memory of anything untoward like this was seeing a bit of National Front graffiti in a park once.
I enjoyed the multicultural atmosphere of the area as I enjoy the multicultural feel of the area of IP1 where I now reside.
It saddens me when I see and hear racism as we are all part of the same race, the human race |
I have a great fondness for the area too having lived there for seven years in the 1980s, and I agree that its multiculturalism was a key part of that. | | | |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:35 - Dec 7 with 2416 views | DJR |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:25 - Dec 7 by Edmundo |
They're not alone: last season there were a few Tommy Robinson chants and more brazen racist comments I heard about at Town away matches. Thankfully none that have been heard at Portman Road, but the far right are feeling powerful enough to stand up and shout obscenities at "foreign looking " people in public these days, it seems |
I must admit I haven't heard that at away games but what you say is very sad. | | | |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:37 - Dec 7 with 2381 views | mellowblue |
Always thought Crystal Palsce's geographic position pretty handy, their natural youth catchment area must pretty be the whole of South London. They can not have that much competition locally if Brighton is their local rival ? |  | | |
| Crystal Palace factions on 17:03 - Dec 7 with 2212 views | J2BLUE |
Very odd. We live in a baffling time. |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 18:02 - Dec 7 with 2045 views | John_Warks_Willy |
Used to live that way too, and have a fair few Palace supporting mates. Thoroughly decent guys who wouldn’t support anything like that, but it’s a funny old world at the moment so nothing surprises me. If it’s in society, it’ll exist to some degree in fan bases as well sadly.
Also, as an aside, best away atmosphere I have ever experienced. Hands down. They are not a quiet bunch at home. |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 18:07 - Dec 7 with 1995 views | DJR |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:37 - Dec 7 by mellowblue |
Always thought Crystal Palsce's geographic position pretty handy, their natural youth catchment area must pretty be the whole of South London. They can not have that much competition locally if Brighton is their local rival ? |
What you say sounds right in principle but it was always said that south west London was a hotbed of Chelsea fans, presumably in part because Wimbledon weren't a thing forty odd years ago (and aren't really now) and it was much easier to get to Chelsea from there than Croydon.
Millwall and Charlton would also at one stage have hoovered up much of south east London. [Post edited 7 Dec 18:13]
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| Crystal Palace factions on 18:09 - Dec 7 with 1992 views | DJR |
| Crystal Palace factions on 18:02 - Dec 7 by John_Warks_Willy |
Used to live that way too, and have a fair few Palace supporting mates. Thoroughly decent guys who wouldn’t support anything like that, but it’s a funny old world at the moment so nothing surprises me. If it’s in society, it’ll exist to some degree in fan bases as well sadly.
Also, as an aside, best away atmosphere I have ever experienced. Hands down. They are not a quiet bunch at home. |
Not when we played them last season though. Maybe they only up it if they think they've got a game on their hands.
And to be honest I don't remember that much of an atmosphere when we played them a lot in the 80s and 90s.
The other issue with the ground is that sitting in the back row in the current away end there is a gantry which produces the worst view at an away game that I have ever had. [Post edited 7 Dec 18:12]
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| Crystal Palace factions on 18:11 - Dec 7 with 1987 views | John_Warks_Willy |
| Crystal Palace factions on 18:09 - Dec 7 by DJR |
Not when we played them last season though. Maybe they only up it if they think they've got a game on their hands.
And to be honest I don't remember that much of an atmosphere when we played them a lot in the 80s and 90s.
The other issue with the ground is that sitting in the back row in the current away end there is a gantry which produces the worst view at an away game that I have ever had. [Post edited 7 Dec 18:12]
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I went a few times when they were getting out the championship and it was amazing, so maybe just due to that and specific to then. Left me thinking it must always be that way! [Post edited 7 Dec 18:15]
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| Crystal Palace factions on 18:16 - Dec 7 with 1939 views | DJR |
| Crystal Palace factions on 18:11 - Dec 7 by John_Warks_Willy |
I went a few times when they were getting out the championship and it was amazing, so maybe just due to that and specific to then. Left me thinking it must always be that way! [Post edited 7 Dec 18:15]
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Maybe I didn't go to many of them or maybe I was misremembering. | | | |
| Crystal Palace factions on 19:11 - Dec 7 with 1717 views | vapour_trail |
| Crystal Palace factions on 18:11 - Dec 7 by John_Warks_Willy |
I went a few times when they were getting out the championship and it was amazing, so maybe just due to that and specific to then. Left me thinking it must always be that way! [Post edited 7 Dec 18:15]
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Palace are right up there in terms of fans who create an atmosphere in this country. They’re always on it.
As to the OP, suspect every club in the country has that increasing element, sadly. |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 19:22 - Dec 7 with 1674 views | Swansea_Blue |
Interesting thanks. I’ll forward that link to my sister and brother in law who live right on the east side of the Park (is that Penge? Something like that). They’re not Palace fans but are big footie fans so will find it interesting and may even know more about it. |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 19:39 - Dec 7 with 1606 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
New Addington are barely Palace fans as far as im aware, just a bunch of maniacs who turn up to cause trouble and sing a bunch of far right songs. Mainly at the European games I think.
Not always to this extent but becoming common place in football now. Seen plenty of Farage Ipswich stickers. Plenty of stop the boats Ipswich stickers. [Post edited 7 Dec 23:13]
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| Crystal Palace factions on 19:56 - Dec 7 with 1526 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Crystal Palace factions on 18:07 - Dec 7 by DJR |
What you say sounds right in principle but it was always said that south west London was a hotbed of Chelsea fans, presumably in part because Wimbledon weren't a thing forty odd years ago (and aren't really now) and it was much easier to get to Chelsea from there than Croydon.
Millwall and Charlton would also at one stage have hoovered up much of south east London. [Post edited 7 Dec 18:13]
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Wimbledon were definitely an up and coming thing 40 years ago, they got into in the First Division for the first time in 1986 - it's just the old Plough Lane was so bad that after the Premier League was formed they had to play at Palace, which wasn't easy to get to as you say - generally Fulham/Chelsea/Wimbledon lot came from the west of the A3, and it was Palace, Charlton, Millwall to the East - lot easier to get from SW to SE London nowadays with the tram network... |  |
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| At Oxford.... on 20:01 - Dec 7 with 1502 views | Bloots |
| Crystal Palace factions on 19:39 - Dec 7 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
New Addington are barely Palace fans as far as im aware, just a bunch of maniacs who turn up to cause trouble and sing a bunch of far right songs. Mainly at the European games I think.
Not always to this extent but becoming common place in football now. Seen plenty of Farage Ipswich stickers. Plenty of stop the boats Ipswich stickers. [Post edited 7 Dec 23:13]
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....there was a load of them.
"Ipswich Boys: On the blow with Rupert Lowe", above the bar was particularly special.
I laughed. |  |
| "mostly smug self indulgent sixth formers” - TWTD User (Nov 2025) |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 21:15 - Dec 7 with 1274 views | Radlett_blue |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:28 - Dec 7 by DJR |
I have a great fondness for the area too having lived there for seven years in the 1980s, and I agree that its multiculturalism was a key part of that. |
In the 1970s many of the south London pubs in mixed communities were split along racial lines - they were either white or black pubs.
I lived in Finsbury Park for a year or so in the early 1980s & after I moved in, I rewarded my mates who'd transported my stuff in their cars with a beer in the nearest pub & when I walked in I realised we were the only white customers. 3 people have never drunk a pint so quickly & quietly. |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 23:02 - Dec 7 with 1051 views | bournemouthblue |
| Crystal Palace factions on 19:39 - Dec 7 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
New Addington are barely Palace fans as far as im aware, just a bunch of maniacs who turn up to cause trouble and sing a bunch of far right songs. Mainly at the European games I think.
Not always to this extent but becoming common place in football now. Seen plenty of Farage Ipswich stickers. Plenty of stop the boats Ipswich stickers. [Post edited 7 Dec 23:13]
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That's disappointing to hear given our history in that regard
We have never historically had a far-right element, quite the opposite, we were one of the ones noted for not having it |  |
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| Crystal Palace factions on 07:31 - Dec 8 with 685 views | DJR |
| Crystal Palace factions on 21:15 - Dec 7 by Radlett_blue |
In the 1970s many of the south London pubs in mixed communities were split along racial lines - they were either white or black pubs.
I lived in Finsbury Park for a year or so in the early 1980s & after I moved in, I rewarded my mates who'd transported my stuff in their cars with a beer in the nearest pub & when I walked in I realised we were the only white customers. 3 people have never drunk a pint so quickly & quietly. |
Interesting background to what you say from an article on the CAMRA website, and something I was not aware of, not being that old.
https://members.camra.org.uk/learn-discover/the-basics/what-was-the-colour-bar-2
Pubs throughout the country [in the 50s and 60s] used to operate a colour bar which meant that black and Asian drinkers were forced to drink in separate rooms or they weren’t to be served at all.
Luckily, a few cases earned national attention, like when the mayor of Lewisham was barred from the Dartmouth Arms in Forest Hill after he visited the south-east London pub with a black friend. But controversy over the colour bar exploded when Malcolm X was taken to the Blue Gates pub by Jouhl and other members of the Indian Workers Association.
The US civil rights leader was refused service and went back to America claiming that conditions in the UK were worse than in Harlem, New York. His visit in February 1965 to Smethwick, though, was a turning point in the legality of the colour bar and it was soon outlawed by legislation.
To ‘break the colour bar’ protests were staged up and down the country which involved people of colour entering pubs and taking note of when they were barred. The evidence was used when landlords’ licences came up for renewal and led to pubs being taken over by the communities that were marginalised by their racist practices. That’s why Britain has a rich heritage of Desi pubs – Anglo-Indian pubs – and pubs with black landlords.
In some cases, these first landlords of colour were met with a hostile reception and in Brixton the Coach and Horses, run by Oliver ‘George’ Berry, London’s first black licensee, was reportedly burned down by the National Front in 1965. Elsewhere it was common for non-white landlords to protect themselves with baseball bats and endure racism from their punters.
[The change in the law] didn’t lead to an end of racism in pubs and segregation continued unofficially. Growing up in Bedfordshire (I was born here in the late 1970s to a father of Indian origin and a Malay mum) separate Black, white, and Asian pubs were a common part of my drinking culture. All pubs in my home town of Dunstable were ‘white’ and places where I had to be on guard if I had the courage to enter on my own. It could be different if I went into a pub with a group of white friends but I never would go to these pubs within a group of Asian friends as the dynamic meant we would be seen “as a gang” and viewed with the utmost suspicion. [Post edited 8 Dec 7:37]
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| Crystal Palace factions on 07:52 - Dec 8 with 650 views | DJR |
| Crystal Palace factions on 19:22 - Dec 7 by Swansea_Blue |
Interesting thanks. I’ll forward that link to my sister and brother in law who live right on the east side of the Park (is that Penge? Something like that). They’re not Palace fans but are big footie fans so will find it interesting and may even know more about it. |
Living in nearby South Norwood my friend and I used to joke about Penge but others have done the same as the following indicates.
Playing on the idea that the word Penge seems to be an inherently funny word, and its apparent shabby-genteel image, the place has been lightly parodied by:
Terry Wogan as Penge-sur-mer or Penge-les-trois-auberges, pronouncing Penge as the French might
Rumpole of the Bailey as the location of his greatest triumph, the "Penge Bungalow Murders" [Post edited 8 Dec 8:54]
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| At Oxford.... on 08:50 - Dec 8 with 542 views | DJR |
| At Oxford.... on 20:01 - Dec 7 by Bloots |
....there was a load of them.
"Ipswich Boys: On the blow with Rupert Lowe", above the bar was particularly special.
I laughed. |
You may laugh but I think that is disappointing, and doesn't in my view leave a good impression of Ipswich or its fans for other away fans at Oxford. Or is this now a thing for all away fans?
Just as well I always get to away games late and go straight to my seat.
[Post edited 8 Dec 8:53]
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| Crystal Palace factions on 14:56 - Dec 8 with 317 views | Sharkey |
| Crystal Palace factions on 16:37 - Dec 7 by mellowblue |
Always thought Crystal Palsce's geographic position pretty handy, their natural youth catchment area must pretty be the whole of South London. They can not have that much competition locally if Brighton is their local rival ? |
Charlton are reputed to have a specially strong bunch of young talent at the moment. |  | | |
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