| Battle of the Falklands 08:30 - Dec 8 with 992 views | Churchman |
It is 111 years to the day since the first battle of the Falklands. We all know about 1982, but less so the action in 1914.
It followed a Royal Navy defeat on 1st November off Coronel, Chile. A German squadron commanded by Maximilian Von Spee comprising of heavy cruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, along with light cruisers Leipzig, Dresden and Nurnburg engaged two old, under gunned armoured cruisers Good Hope and Monmouth under Christopher Cradock. It should never happened. Cradock’s force was destroyed with no survivors.
1660 RN sailors died in the action, 3 Germans were wounded. The light cruiser Glasgow and AMC Otranto managed to get away. The first RN defeat in 100 years was a terrible shock. To the Germans it was celebration time. When presented with flowers Von Spee said ‘they will do for my funeral’. He knew what was coming.
After the humiliation, newer, larger Battlecruisers Invincible and Inflexible were sent to avenge. They were commanded by Doveton Sturdee, a man loathed by Churchill and Fisher who commanded the navy. If he won, so he should. If it went wrong, they had their man to blame.
The two Battlecruisers arrived and were coaling at the Falkland Islands. Von Spee had the idea of replenishing his own supplies and smashing the place up. When he saw the tripod masts and a shot from the old, beached battleship Canopus nearly hit one of the German ships, he knew the game was up.
He reversed course as fast as he could and sent the light cruisers in another direction to give them a chance. Sturdee’s force chased after them and with superior speed caught Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. With newer, more powerful ships, Sturdee’s force destroyed them both despite poor gunnery from the British ships. Scharnhorst went first followed by Gneisenau. 190 of Gneisenau’s crew were saved.
Meanwhile, HMS Kent chased down SMS Nurnberg while HMS Cornwall and HMS Glasgow sank SMS Leipzig. Only Dresden survived to be hunted down and scuttled in subsequent months. In all around 1900 German sailors and 10 British died in these actions.
Looking at Coronel and Falklands it is easy to criticise the actions of the participants. For example Churchill and Fisher who left Cradock cruelly exposed, Cradock for acting out of fear of being accused a coward, Von Spee for his decision to go to the Falkland Islands.
But modern sea warfare was very much in its infancy and the gift of hindsight is one everybody has. |  | | |  |
| Battle of the Falklands on 08:40 - Dec 8 with 942 views | Keno |
Oddly I watched the Falklands Play film yesterday |  |
| |
| Battle of the Falklands on 08:48 - Dec 8 with 912 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 08:40 - Dec 8 by Keno |
Oddly I watched the Falklands Play film yesterday |
Not seen that. Any good? I’ll have to give it a watch. Thanks. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 08:49 - Dec 8 with 913 views | Guthrum |
Also one has to remember the deficiencies of communications in what was then (and to some extent still is) a remote part of the world. None of those involved had more then the vaguest idea of where the other side was, when or if they were going to encounter them, until smoke was seen on the horizon.
On a side note, Canopus was not actually beached. She was supposed to be at Coronel (which might have saved the disaster), but was too slow to get there in time - or to to be of any use in catching the German ships at the Falklands. She went on to take part in the Dardanelles campaign the following year. |  |
| |
| Battle of the Falklands on 09:13 - Dec 8 with 863 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 08:49 - Dec 8 by Guthrum |
Also one has to remember the deficiencies of communications in what was then (and to some extent still is) a remote part of the world. None of those involved had more then the vaguest idea of where the other side was, when or if they were going to encounter them, until smoke was seen on the horizon.
On a side note, Canopus was not actually beached. She was supposed to be at Coronel (which might have saved the disaster), but was too slow to get there in time - or to to be of any use in catching the German ships at the Falklands. She went on to take part in the Dardanelles campaign the following year. |
You are right. Moored as a guard ship in the entrance of Port Stanley harbour is a more accurate description. Canopus was an 1897 vintage pre dreadnought with worn out engines. There was no way she should operate in company with Cradock’s force hence being left behind.
He had been promised HMS Defence, a more modern armoured cruiser (subsequently blown up at Jutland) but was told to make do with Canopus. Churchill had a naive habit of just counting up numbers and calibres of guns and taking little else into account. A fault he never lost.
Yes, Canopus did take part in the Dardanelles disaster the following year.
The rate of technological change was phenomenal. HMS Dreadnought was launched in 1906 and made every battleship obsolete. However it was too vulnerable for front line use in the Grand Fleet by 1914. Single calibre guns, steam turbines, range finding, optics and tactics all had to change and the sea actions of WW1 were totally different to the Japan/Russia conflict 10 years earlier.
Inevitably evolution of sea warfare elements happened at different rates. So the British might have been able to listen in on German activity but it’s comms between ships was woeful, as demonstrated at Jutland and Heligoland Bight.
Sheer design was fraught with peril too. The concept of the Battlecruiser, Jacky Fisher’s brainchild, was sound, but because they were the size of battleships and carried the same sort of armament the often got used in places the shouldn’t. The most spectacular example being HMS Hood blown up by Bismarck. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 09:47 - Dec 8 with 807 views | Keno |
| Battle of the Falklands on 08:48 - Dec 8 by Churchman |
Not seen that. Any good? I’ll have to give it a watch. Thanks. |
It wasn’t bad, worth a watch
Patricia Hodge was very good as Maggie!! | |
| |
| Battle of the Falklands on 10:41 - Dec 8 with 737 views | mellowblue |
Respect for the dead. All brave men.
I make that a 4-2 victory after a stirring second half comeback.
It is not an action I had even heard of, (or more probably had completely forgotten about, thank you for that.
Our naval history should be remembered and celebrated more. |  | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 11:53 - Dec 8 with 678 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 10:41 - Dec 8 by mellowblue |
Respect for the dead. All brave men.
I make that a 4-2 victory after a stirring second half comeback.
It is not an action I had even heard of, (or more probably had completely forgotten about, thank you for that.
Our naval history should be remembered and celebrated more. |
Indeed they were very brave. Looking at the naval actions of both world wars if you were on a ship that was lost your chances of survival were negligible. A matter of sheer chance. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:08 - Dec 8 with 622 views | Radlett_blue |
| Battle of the Falklands on 11:53 - Dec 8 by Churchman |
Indeed they were very brave. Looking at the naval actions of both world wars if you were on a ship that was lost your chances of survival were negligible. A matter of sheer chance. |
yes, but people's attitude to risk in those days was very different. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:10 - Dec 8 with 614 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Do we have to stand on one leg for a year?! |  |
| |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:22 - Dec 8 with 582 views | Illinoisblue |
Just last week I watched an old World in Action episode on the 1982 conflict and how the ship Sir Galahad was left as a sitting duck due to a variety of reasons (or mistakes by the top brass). Many Welsh guards died and many more suffered horrendous burns. |  |
| |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:25 - Dec 8 with 572 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:08 - Dec 8 by Radlett_blue |
yes, but people's attitude to risk in those days was very different. |
They really didn’t have much idea what could happen in that form of warfare but people were dispensable. Reservists, boys, old ships laid up were all drafted. A classic example of shoving numbers out and hoping for the best was the loss of the ‘live bait squadron’ in Sept 1914.
Three old armoured cruisers Aboukir, Hogue and Cressy were sent to patrol the broad fourteens off Holland without any escort. U-9 sunk all three and over 1400 sailors died. Those floating piles of scrap shouldn’t have even been there.
For context at this time the relatively small professional British Army of 247k (the ‘old contemptibles) was being systematically destroyed. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:39 - Dec 8 with 503 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Battle of the Falklands on 11:53 - Dec 8 by Churchman |
Indeed they were very brave. Looking at the naval actions of both world wars if you were on a ship that was lost your chances of survival were negligible. A matter of sheer chance. |
And there is a link to the Fortuna Blues. Friedie Schacht, who many of you will know, is their Club Archivist. A close relative of his - uncle, I think - served and died on the Bismarck.
War, a horrible thing. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:44 - Dec 8 with 482 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:39 - Dec 8 by Freddies_Ears |
And there is a link to the Fortuna Blues. Friedie Schacht, who many of you will know, is their Club Archivist. A close relative of his - uncle, I think - served and died on the Bismarck.
War, a horrible thing. |
I didn’t know that. Around 2200 died on Bismarck with only 110 saved. In the chase, HMS Hood was blown up with only 3 survivors from a crew of 1418.
Brave men all. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 15:35 - Dec 8 with 386 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Battle of the Falklands on 10:41 - Dec 8 by mellowblue |
Respect for the dead. All brave men.
I make that a 4-2 victory after a stirring second half comeback.
It is not an action I had even heard of, (or more probably had completely forgotten about, thank you for that.
Our naval history should be remembered and celebrated more. |
Today is a bank holiday down here because of it.
I'm not sure celebrating is the right term given the number of deaths, and there has been some debate about whether it should be a bank holiday anymore. |  | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 16:23 - Dec 8 with 353 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 15:35 - Dec 8 by Clapham_Junction |
Today is a bank holiday down here because of it.
I'm not sure celebrating is the right term given the number of deaths, and there has been some debate about whether it should be a bank holiday anymore. |
If the bank holiday helps remember the lives lost at the two battles of Coronel and Falklands and understand the true cost of war, I don’t see any harm in it. Maybe retitle it as a Remembrance Day? | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 16:50 - Dec 8 with 336 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Battle of the Falklands on 16:23 - Dec 8 by Churchman |
If the bank holiday helps remember the lives lost at the two battles of Coronel and Falklands and understand the true cost of war, I don’t see any harm in it. Maybe retitle it as a Remembrance Day? |
There is already a Remembrance Day (same one as the UK). | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 17:14 - Dec 8 with 303 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 16:50 - Dec 8 by Clapham_Junction |
There is already a Remembrance Day (same one as the UK). |
I’m aware of that. Given the history of the area and the importance of that event, a second does no harm does it? | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 17:27 - Dec 8 with 285 views | Radlett_blue |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:22 - Dec 8 by Illinoisblue |
Just last week I watched an old World in Action episode on the 1982 conflict and how the ship Sir Galahad was left as a sitting duck due to a variety of reasons (or mistakes by the top brass). Many Welsh guards died and many more suffered horrendous burns. |
People make errors of judgement, especially under the pressure of war. So members of the armed forces die.
Western Europe can't cope with the fall-out from this - body bags coming home etc. This is a major reason why Europe has been unable to stand up to Putin, first when he annexed the Crimean Peninsula & later when he invaded Russia. And Putin also knows that the West doesn't have the stomach for a war, so his aggression (and willingness to sacrifice his own people) is being rewarded. | |
| |
| Battle of the Falklands on 17:31 - Dec 8 with 276 views | mellowblue |
| Battle of the Falklands on 13:08 - Dec 8 by Radlett_blue |
yes, but people's attitude to risk in those days was very different. |
I think duty came before anything. Never mind the risks. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 18:03 - Dec 8 with 239 views | Churchman |
| Battle of the Falklands on 17:31 - Dec 8 by mellowblue |
I think duty came before anything. Never mind the risks. |
I agree with that. Kitcheners New Army started forming in 1914 became the largest volunteer army in history. I suspect the driving force behind it was a sense of duty. To one’s friends, colleagues, country. It was made famous by Kitchener’s ‘Your Country Needs You’ poster. I can think of no other reason why my grandfather volunteered early 1915 just a few months before completing his apprenticeship. | | | |
| Battle of the Falklands on 18:07 - Dec 8 with 235 views | djgooder |
Great read. Thank you. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
