| Polish fans don't mess about 22:15 - Aug 2 with 8538 views | Mullet |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:19 - Aug 2 with 7113 views | Lord_Lucan |
Forgive and forget major |  |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:40 - Aug 2 with 7019 views | m14_blue |
Rather puts the English singing 10 German bombers into perspective. |  | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:43 - Aug 2 with 6995 views | JakeITFC |
What purpose does this serve? Bizarre. |  | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:47 - Aug 2 with 6964 views | LimitlessBlue |
reading a book at the moment about a boy who survived Sobibor and his life story about being in Poland when the Nazi's invaded is truly shocking. puts Isis into the non-league. |  |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:48 - Aug 2 with 6967 views | uefacup81 |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:43 - Aug 2 by JakeITFC |
What purpose does this serve? Bizarre. |
It sounds like, of late, someone has been quite successful in stirring up a lot of anti-German sentiment amongst the Poles. There was talk the other week of making a retrospective demand for reparations for the second World War.
You're right, it's hard to see what legitimate point they're trying to make here. It's akin to Dynamo Dresden doing a tifo pinning the blame for the 1945 raids on 'The British' in general. [Post edited 2 Aug 2017 22:49]
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:54 - Aug 2 with 6917 views | LimitlessBlue |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:48 - Aug 2 by uefacup81 |
It sounds like, of late, someone has been quite successful in stirring up a lot of anti-German sentiment amongst the Poles. There was talk the other week of making a retrospective demand for reparations for the second World War.
You're right, it's hard to see what legitimate point they're trying to make here. It's akin to Dynamo Dresden doing a tifo pinning the blame for the 1945 raids on 'The British' in general. [Post edited 2 Aug 2017 22:49]
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do we forget the wars now? | |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 23:02 - Aug 2 with 6898 views | Dolly2.0 |
I'm trying to figure out what that is. Are the seats spelling out 1944 and the soldier/boy is a banner? |  |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 23:04 - Aug 2 with 6883 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:54 - Aug 2 by LimitlessBlue |
do we forget the wars now? |
We don't forget them, but what does football fans doing this 70 years after the event achieve? Most of the people involved will be dead by now. | |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 00:04 - Aug 3 with 6787 views | Illinoisblue |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:43 - Aug 2 by JakeITFC |
What purpose does this serve? Bizarre. |
rather see banners like that than a bunch of tourist divs taking photos all game |  |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 00:10 - Aug 3 with 6775 views | feelingblue |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:48 - Aug 2 by uefacup81 |
It sounds like, of late, someone has been quite successful in stirring up a lot of anti-German sentiment amongst the Poles. There was talk the other week of making a retrospective demand for reparations for the second World War.
You're right, it's hard to see what legitimate point they're trying to make here. It's akin to Dynamo Dresden doing a tifo pinning the blame for the 1945 raids on 'The British' in general. [Post edited 2 Aug 2017 22:49]
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It isn't though, is it? Poles were pretty much blameless, there was some sort of justification for Dresden, like the result or not. |  | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 00:13 - Aug 3 with 6770 views | Melford |
What the Germans (and Russians) did the Poles in the war was way beyond anything we can comprehend over here really. We lost 43,000 civilians in WW2, at least 1.5 million Polish civilians were deported to Germany for forced labour ie Slaves. At least 1.9 million non-Jewish Poles died, plus 3 million Polish Jews at the hands of the Nazis. It's not as easy for them to forgive or forget. Read Uprising 44 by Norman Davies and about the clearing of the Warsaw Ghetto in 42-43 then you will realise why this feeling still exists.
13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising (some 6,000 among them were burnt alive or died from smoke inhalation). Of the remaining 50,000 residents, most were captured and shipped to concentration and extermination camps, in particular to Treblinka.
Jürgen Stroop's internal SS daily report for Friedrich Krüger, written on 16 May 1943, stated:
180 Jews, bandits and sub-humans, were destroyed. The former Jewish quarter of Warsaw is no longer in existence. The large-scale action was terminated at 20:15 hours by blowing up the Warsaw Synagogue. ... Total number of Jews dealt with 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved. ... Apart from 8 buildings (police barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed. Only the dividing walls are left standing where no explosions were carried out. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 0:50]
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 00:58 - Aug 3 with 6714 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:48 - Aug 2 by uefacup81 |
It sounds like, of late, someone has been quite successful in stirring up a lot of anti-German sentiment amongst the Poles. There was talk the other week of making a retrospective demand for reparations for the second World War.
You're right, it's hard to see what legitimate point they're trying to make here. It's akin to Dynamo Dresden doing a tifo pinning the blame for the 1945 raids on 'The British' in general. [Post edited 2 Aug 2017 22:49]
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The Poles have every right to remind the world what the Germans did to their people between 1939-45. The Warsaw Uprising is one of the bravest actions in the history of mankind and the German response was as brutal as anything witnessed in the history of mankind.
These actions should never be forgotten. |  |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 01:14 - Aug 3 with 6700 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:48 - Aug 2 by uefacup81 |
It sounds like, of late, someone has been quite successful in stirring up a lot of anti-German sentiment amongst the Poles. There was talk the other week of making a retrospective demand for reparations for the second World War.
You're right, it's hard to see what legitimate point they're trying to make here. It's akin to Dynamo Dresden doing a tifo pinning the blame for the 1945 raids on 'The British' in general. [Post edited 2 Aug 2017 22:49]
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WTF???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stirring up? What are you on about?
1st of August is an anniversary of Warsaw Uprising so Legia fans have every right to voice their feelings. |  | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 01:34 - Aug 3 with 6663 views | Melford |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 01:14 - Aug 3 by Mach_foreignBlue |
WTF???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stirring up? What are you on about?
1st of August is an anniversary of Warsaw Uprising so Legia fans have every right to voice their feelings. |
Mach, you are Polish? | |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 01:38 - Aug 3 with 6661 views | Melford |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 22:47 - Aug 2 by LimitlessBlue |
reading a book at the moment about a boy who survived Sobibor and his life story about being in Poland when the Nazi's invaded is truly shocking. puts Isis into the non-league. |
This is my WW2 library.
There's well over a hundred books there. | |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 01:40 - Aug 3 with 6651 views | Blue_Order |
Incredible. |  | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 01:40 - Aug 3 with 6662 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 01:34 - Aug 3 by Melford |
Mach, you are Polish? |
Yes. I understand that not everyone knows what Warsaw Uprising was but to say something about 'stirring up' an anti-German sentiment is baffling to put it mildly. | | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 02:08 - Aug 3 with 6625 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 00:13 - Aug 3 by Melford |
What the Germans (and Russians) did the Poles in the war was way beyond anything we can comprehend over here really. We lost 43,000 civilians in WW2, at least 1.5 million Polish civilians were deported to Germany for forced labour ie Slaves. At least 1.9 million non-Jewish Poles died, plus 3 million Polish Jews at the hands of the Nazis. It's not as easy for them to forgive or forget. Read Uprising 44 by Norman Davies and about the clearing of the Warsaw Ghetto in 42-43 then you will realise why this feeling still exists.
13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising (some 6,000 among them were burnt alive or died from smoke inhalation). Of the remaining 50,000 residents, most were captured and shipped to concentration and extermination camps, in particular to Treblinka.
Jürgen Stroop's internal SS daily report for Friedrich Krüger, written on 16 May 1943, stated:
180 Jews, bandits and sub-humans, were destroyed. The former Jewish quarter of Warsaw is no longer in existence. The large-scale action was terminated at 20:15 hours by blowing up the Warsaw Synagogue. ... Total number of Jews dealt with 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved. ... Apart from 8 buildings (police barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed. Only the dividing walls are left standing where no explosions were carried out. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 0:50]
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It was terrible. But it was more than 70 years ago. I imagine most Germans would be disgusted with what their ancestors did. But that's what they are, ancestors. | |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 05:33 - Aug 3 with 6555 views | LimitlessBlue |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 02:08 - Aug 3 by Dolly2.0 |
It was terrible. But it was more than 70 years ago. I imagine most Germans would be disgusted with what their ancestors did. But that's what they are, ancestors. |
My grandfather fought in WW2 obviously as I am sure lots of other folk's on here too, I would be horrified if he was German and as a daily routine would have murdered people but not only murdered people but took such joy from taunting, ridiculing and scaring them let alone torturing an entire population right up until the point of death. it's the joy they got from their treatment of Jewish people that can and will never be forgotten.
I am forgive and forget on most things and to a certain extent war is war but to try and dismantle an entire population and see them as 'sub-human' treating them in such a way that it is still shocking to hear about it and read about it 70 years later, it will rightly never be forgiven or forgotten.
Do we plan to forgive jihadi john in a few years and he murdered about 10 people. Some of these Germans murdered 10 people before they ate their breakfast, DAILY!!. | |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 08:25 - Aug 3 with 6260 views | sundaze |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 00:13 - Aug 3 by Melford |
What the Germans (and Russians) did the Poles in the war was way beyond anything we can comprehend over here really. We lost 43,000 civilians in WW2, at least 1.5 million Polish civilians were deported to Germany for forced labour ie Slaves. At least 1.9 million non-Jewish Poles died, plus 3 million Polish Jews at the hands of the Nazis. It's not as easy for them to forgive or forget. Read Uprising 44 by Norman Davies and about the clearing of the Warsaw Ghetto in 42-43 then you will realise why this feeling still exists.
13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising (some 6,000 among them were burnt alive or died from smoke inhalation). Of the remaining 50,000 residents, most were captured and shipped to concentration and extermination camps, in particular to Treblinka.
Jürgen Stroop's internal SS daily report for Friedrich Krüger, written on 16 May 1943, stated:
180 Jews, bandits and sub-humans, were destroyed. The former Jewish quarter of Warsaw is no longer in existence. The large-scale action was terminated at 20:15 hours by blowing up the Warsaw Synagogue. ... Total number of Jews dealt with 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved. ... Apart from 8 buildings (police barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed. Only the dividing walls are left standing where no explosions were carried out. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 0:50]
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It's good to see someone on here that knows the facts before deciding to comment on something they have no idea about. |  | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 08:44 - Aug 3 with 6223 views | Swailsey |
Whilst those crimes were abhorrent, I really don't understand the point of this.
Using 'Germans' (whilst true) is inflammatory - surely 'Nazis' would be better?
Most of those involved with the crimes are now long gone, with their relatives embarrassed by it.
I understand that they would like to remember it and they should - but not in a way that will cause more ill-feeling. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 09:01 - Aug 3 with 6166 views | factual_blue |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 08:44 - Aug 3 by Swailsey |
Whilst those crimes were abhorrent, I really don't understand the point of this.
Using 'Germans' (whilst true) is inflammatory - surely 'Nazis' would be better?
Most of those involved with the crimes are now long gone, with their relatives embarrassed by it.
I understand that they would like to remember it and they should - but not in a way that will cause more ill-feeling. |
The debate about whether the crimes of Hitler's regime were committed by Germans or 'Nazis' is a long and complex one. That said, the perpetrators were, in Poland at least, predominantly German. It's probably hard for us to understand the depths of savagery and cruelty the Nazi regime, a savagery that was probably at its most marked in Poland and the USSR. |  |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 09:02 - Aug 3 with 6152 views | Swailsey |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 09:01 - Aug 3 by factual_blue |
The debate about whether the crimes of Hitler's regime were committed by Germans or 'Nazis' is a long and complex one. That said, the perpetrators were, in Poland at least, predominantly German. It's probably hard for us to understand the depths of savagery and cruelty the Nazi regime, a savagery that was probably at its most marked in Poland and the USSR. |
Agreed, I just feel calling them Germans is problematic.
What about the German Jews? | |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Polish fans don't mess about on 09:34 - Aug 3 with 6046 views | brazil1982 |
Magnificent. I am currently reading "Notes from the Warsaw Ghetto" - astonishing. | | | |
| Polish fans don't mess about on 09:48 - Aug 3 with 6011 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
A little on a tangent but I thought I'd share this story on here..
We live near a former American air base that has been lovingly restored in parts and hosts regular open days and an annual reunion where American vets and their families come over to visit their old base and home during WW2
My family have volunteered in the restoration and host some American families during the reunion week. Last year on an day trip to somewhere near the coast the veteran got chatting to a local women on the seafront and were having a lovely chat about the area and his connections.. As it continued they discussed the war and Germany etc. and he mentioned his bombing raids on Berlin and it transpired that the women was of German descent and that her Father was actually killed on his way to work by an American bombing raid.
Needless to say the Vet was somewhat shocked and incredibly apologetic and it clearly had shaken him up. The women was incredibly polite and held no grudges, no malice and had let that part of her life go, but the Veteran was visibly shaken by it for the rest of the week as he hadn't had to face some of the pain he had caused on innocent people whilst serving his country and the greater good. Though I think he left at the end of it having 'experienced' and enjoyed his trip more than any other year due to the conversation with that women and whilst there were clearly some horrendous acts carried out by the Nazis, there were (the inevitable) innocent civilian casualties on the German side as well as the allies |  | | |
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