| Our rightful level in football 13:36 - Jan 24 with 3897 views | Bluefish |
I have been talking about this for a couple of years on here because it baffles me with the expectation levels of some but I know a lot of people think I am nuts so I did some very quick stats
If you treat football since the premier league starting in 1992 then we have spent 5 season in the premier league. This puts us in joint 34th with forest, hill and wolves. The premier league has 20 teams so we would be 14th in championship on that basis. It obviously isn't completely scientific though.
Parachute payments however were the big change and they came about in 2007 so 5 years after we left. This means not only are we 14th with a level playing field, we are actually well below due to the way parachutes payments have distorted the game. Marcus Evans obviously bought us that same year sensing a chance to get the new inflated riches of the premier league, little did he know by missing the boat early on it made that dream more and more expensive and harder to chase.
Clubs that have more seasons than us include
Swansea
QPR
Portsmouth
Derby
Birmingham
Wigan
Wednesday
norwich
Charlton
Coventry
Stoke
Leeds
Bolton
Boro
Sunderland
Blackburn
Villa
Why do we think we have a claim ahead of these clubs? It is romantic to say football didn't start in 92 but it definitely changed and it changed even more so in 2007
[Post edited 24 Jan 2019 13:47]
|  |
| |  |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:44 - Jan 24 with 3533 views | Fixed_It |
Good post (but needs editing!).
A mate of mine always bemoans us losing against 'pub teams' - ignoring the fact that we have had more years of mediocrity than many of them since our glory years.
Parachute payments were brought in to save relegated clubs - but a closer look at player contracts would have been a better way to go. I'm guessing 'player power' was the reason this didn't happen, but that has been to the detriment of the game overall. |  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:49 - Jan 24 with 3508 views | Bluefish |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:44 - Jan 24 by Fixed_It |
Good post (but needs editing!).
A mate of mine always bemoans us losing against 'pub teams' - ignoring the fact that we have had more years of mediocrity than many of them since our glory years.
Parachute payments were brought in to save relegated clubs - but a closer look at player contracts would have been a better way to go. I'm guessing 'player power' was the reason this didn't happen, but that has been to the detriment of the game overall. |
Sorry not always easing typing on here on the phone
Other clubs that have been in the prem include
Barnsley
Blackpool
Swindon
Bradford
Oldham
Reading
Sheffield Utd [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 13:49]
| |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:52 - Jan 24 with 3502 views | ITFC_Forever |
I get that if we're talking recent history - which for arguments' sake starts in 1992.
Trouble is, any Town fan born before the 80s can remember us as top division regulars, those born 60s and before can remember us being title / Europe contenders every season.
I know this is a point you often raise (and often with me), but when you've grown up with the club at that level, it's hard to stomach that the best we can hope for is 15th in the Champ. And when that's achieved by playing existential football, it's even more dull.
In my head, I completely get how the money in the Prem and parachute payments to relegated sides have ruined the game and greatly diminished our chances of success. But in my heart, it's depressing to accept that, when for most of my time (and anyone of the ages I mention earlier), we have been top division mainstays and / or right in the thick of the promotion race. |  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:54 - Jan 24 with 3487 views | jjblue84 |
‘Marcus Evans obviously bought us that same year sensing a chance to get the new inflated riches of the premier league, little did he know’ ...about running a football club!! |  | | |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:57 - Jan 24 with 3476 views | Bluefish |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:52 - Jan 24 by ITFC_Forever |
I get that if we're talking recent history - which for arguments' sake starts in 1992.
Trouble is, any Town fan born before the 80s can remember us as top division regulars, those born 60s and before can remember us being title / Europe contenders every season.
I know this is a point you often raise (and often with me), but when you've grown up with the club at that level, it's hard to stomach that the best we can hope for is 15th in the Champ. And when that's achieved by playing existential football, it's even more dull.
In my head, I completely get how the money in the Prem and parachute payments to relegated sides have ruined the game and greatly diminished our chances of success. But in my heart, it's depressing to accept that, when for most of my time (and anyone of the ages I mention earlier), we have been top division mainstays and / or right in the thick of the promotion race. |
It is a bit easier for me I was born in 1980 so started supporting in about 85 and really from late 80s onwards. I grew up with John Duncan | |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 14:02 - Jan 24 with 3453 views | wkj |
This is why terms like "We're a big club" do my head in. We're an average sized club with a big history. Our reach is far and wide, we perhaps have one of the better international fan bases than many teams in L1 - but to have an idea we deserve to be anywhere based on those things is wishful thinking. |  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 14:03 - Jan 24 with 3452 views | MrTown |
Good post, good read!
Make some really sensible points to be fair, the introduction of parachute payments really made an imbalance to the championship. Seperated teams that have never been in the prem since 2007 and ones that have almost into a mini league.
I do not understand the parachute payment, if you receive your £160m for promotion, that has to be spent by building a sustainable team to develop in the prem, you shouldn’t be rewarded for going up, spending a load of money of continental footballers on big wages straight away and then be relegated and be rewarded for it.
Shows furthermore the good financial job has been doing tbf, voiding for any premier league money by keeping us in the champ for so long. |  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 14:03 - Jan 24 with 3449 views | sotd78 |
| Our rightful level in football on 13:52 - Jan 24 by ITFC_Forever |
I get that if we're talking recent history - which for arguments' sake starts in 1992.
Trouble is, any Town fan born before the 80s can remember us as top division regulars, those born 60s and before can remember us being title / Europe contenders every season.
I know this is a point you often raise (and often with me), but when you've grown up with the club at that level, it's hard to stomach that the best we can hope for is 15th in the Champ. And when that's achieved by playing existential football, it's even more dull.
In my head, I completely get how the money in the Prem and parachute payments to relegated sides have ruined the game and greatly diminished our chances of success. But in my heart, it's depressing to accept that, when for most of my time (and anyone of the ages I mention earlier), we have been top division mainstays and / or right in the thick of the promotion race. |
I was born in 1958. So I saw all the Robson years and the clubs success.
I was then too young to appreciate just how lucky we were. But in my time I've seen the fair share out of wealth diminish to the level where the fat get fatter and the greedy get greedier.
Clubs used to share their gate money. That made it feasible for the smaller clubs (QPR, Burnley, Ipswich) to compete. Aston Villa were once top of the pile - but even that giant cannot compete nowadays.
We've been replaced by the likes of Bournemouth,.
The only way up for us is a oligarch or an entrepreneur funding us for the prestige of walking around glad handing the big boys. I am not sure that shy Mr Evans is thus motivated. |  |
| Blue shirts/white shorts - sotd78 |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Our rightful level in football on 16:00 - Jan 24 with 3290 views | LeagueOne |
But equally as supporters why should we accept becoming a third division club without a noise though? It's not our fault the owner cannot afford to run a Championship level team, nor is it our fault that he's made the decisions that have caused us to drop out of this league.
Ipswich was once a well run club with a reasonably region sized fanbase and it did very well. The reason it's gone into the third division is because it has an owner who has deluded himself into thinking we've ever really been "competitive" under his leadership, when in fact he's not had a manager who hasn't had a relegation battle since he's been here.
It's not a sense of entitlement from Ipswich supporters, it's putting the blame where it belongs, not on the toxic supporters or the Premier League, but the owner. Huddersfield never received a penny parachute money and they still reached the Premiership before we could, neither did Brighton, Bournemouth and whole host of others who were promoted out of the Championship and under Evans we've fallen light years behind those previously smaller clubs, same with Cardiff and others.
Why were they promoted with no parachute payments and smaller fan bases then we had? Sounder leadership and good investment. We have had neither.
This is, and always will be, Marcus Evans doing. He's turned us into a Third Division club, he, and he alone, not parachute payments. He didn't want to spend on running the club, and he's still sticking rigidly to his idea of what competitive is. Expect more cuts in the summer.
He's a classic public school Tory boy, cutting everything he can and investing as little as possible.
Just look at what he has done. [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 16:02]
|  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:14 - Jan 24 with 3248 views | Bluefish |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:00 - Jan 24 by LeagueOne |
But equally as supporters why should we accept becoming a third division club without a noise though? It's not our fault the owner cannot afford to run a Championship level team, nor is it our fault that he's made the decisions that have caused us to drop out of this league.
Ipswich was once a well run club with a reasonably region sized fanbase and it did very well. The reason it's gone into the third division is because it has an owner who has deluded himself into thinking we've ever really been "competitive" under his leadership, when in fact he's not had a manager who hasn't had a relegation battle since he's been here.
It's not a sense of entitlement from Ipswich supporters, it's putting the blame where it belongs, not on the toxic supporters or the Premier League, but the owner. Huddersfield never received a penny parachute money and they still reached the Premiership before we could, neither did Brighton, Bournemouth and whole host of others who were promoted out of the Championship and under Evans we've fallen light years behind those previously smaller clubs, same with Cardiff and others.
Why were they promoted with no parachute payments and smaller fan bases then we had? Sounder leadership and good investment. We have had neither.
This is, and always will be, Marcus Evans doing. He's turned us into a Third Division club, he, and he alone, not parachute payments. He didn't want to spend on running the club, and he's still sticking rigidly to his idea of what competitive is. Expect more cuts in the summer.
He's a classic public school Tory boy, cutting everything he can and investing as little as possible.
Just look at what he has done. [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 16:02]
|
You seem to have completely missed all of the points | |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:34 - Jan 24 with 3210 views | monty_radio |
Take your points, but inaccurate to call 1957 our lowest point when we were, and had been, a club on the rise. Even more so when 1957 was actually a promotion and Div 3 (S) winning season. |  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:35 - Jan 24 with 3206 views | Dennyx4 |
I do like a stat, and interesting reading thank you.
I suppose the key point would be - where were we on this scale when Evans took over?
My bet is we have dropped significantly - 5 seasons in the Premier League up to 2007, would have put us ahead of a lot of the teams you have listed. |  | | |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:40 - Jan 24 with 3193 views | Bluefish |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:35 - Jan 24 by Dennyx4 |
I do like a stat, and interesting reading thank you.
I suppose the key point would be - where were we on this scale when Evans took over?
My bet is we have dropped significantly - 5 seasons in the Premier League up to 2007, would have put us ahead of a lot of the teams you have listed. |
We were ripe for the big time in 07 that is why a shrewd man without with interest in football took the plunge and threw big (at the time) money at it. Others have fallen further than us since then though
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006—07_FA_Premier_League
Look at 7th 8th 9th 10th and 11th
And 17th 18th 19th
[Post edited 24 Jan 2019 16:43]
| |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:46 - Jan 24 with 3170 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:00 - Jan 24 by LeagueOne |
But equally as supporters why should we accept becoming a third division club without a noise though? It's not our fault the owner cannot afford to run a Championship level team, nor is it our fault that he's made the decisions that have caused us to drop out of this league.
Ipswich was once a well run club with a reasonably region sized fanbase and it did very well. The reason it's gone into the third division is because it has an owner who has deluded himself into thinking we've ever really been "competitive" under his leadership, when in fact he's not had a manager who hasn't had a relegation battle since he's been here.
It's not a sense of entitlement from Ipswich supporters, it's putting the blame where it belongs, not on the toxic supporters or the Premier League, but the owner. Huddersfield never received a penny parachute money and they still reached the Premiership before we could, neither did Brighton, Bournemouth and whole host of others who were promoted out of the Championship and under Evans we've fallen light years behind those previously smaller clubs, same with Cardiff and others.
Why were they promoted with no parachute payments and smaller fan bases then we had? Sounder leadership and good investment. We have had neither.
This is, and always will be, Marcus Evans doing. He's turned us into a Third Division club, he, and he alone, not parachute payments. He didn't want to spend on running the club, and he's still sticking rigidly to his idea of what competitive is. Expect more cuts in the summer.
He's a classic public school Tory boy, cutting everything he can and investing as little as possible.
Just look at what he has done. [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 16:02]
|
What Guff.
The Cobbolds supported their managers 100% - we struck lucky.
ME supports his managers 100% - we don't get lucky yet its his fault.
You joker. |  | | |
| Our rightful level in football on 17:00 - Jan 24 with 3149 views | LeagueOne |
| Our rightful level in football on 16:46 - Jan 24 by Burwell_Blue |
What Guff.
The Cobbolds supported their managers 100% - we struck lucky.
ME supports his managers 100% - we don't get lucky yet its his fault.
You joker. |
Classic Evans In nonsense from the happy clappers.
Supports all of his managers? He has drastically underfunded the team for years and sacked all but two of them, Mick who he didn't renew who had to run a Championship side on the 5th lowest budget in the league, the other one being current. Only one of them has lasted over 5 years. Granted he approved Hurst's sledgehammer action not out of any noble idea about supporting the manager, but because between the two of them they hadn't a clue how to run a Championship club as proven by the result. He wouldn't know what was good, he's failed miserably as an owner and a leader and it's all his fault, not ours. Other clubs have been more successful who were smaller than us, they've eclipsed us because of Evans and Evans leadership alone.
Is this how easily your are convinced that he can mention Sir Bobby in a PR stunt and you will dance happily along as he leads you off a cliff? We're going into the third division, we're 100mil odd in debt, the supporters base has halved during his tenure - it's not guff, its fact. Get your head out of Evans backside and learn to read.
Lambert won't be here this time next year when we're not performing in League One. | |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 18:03 - Jan 24 with 3073 views | MVBlue |
Also note clubs that have bounced back up and straight through the championship in recent years:
Leicester
Southampton
Wolves
Naridge
Huddersfield
Folk on here have long mooted it may do us more good than harm going down and sorting the club out getting a winning eay back. I was always of those clubs sailing by us with out midtable obscurity. It is a risky hope though. |  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 18:11 - Jan 24 with 3060 views | Benters2 |
| Our rightful level in football on 17:00 - Jan 24 by LeagueOne |
Classic Evans In nonsense from the happy clappers.
Supports all of his managers? He has drastically underfunded the team for years and sacked all but two of them, Mick who he didn't renew who had to run a Championship side on the 5th lowest budget in the league, the other one being current. Only one of them has lasted over 5 years. Granted he approved Hurst's sledgehammer action not out of any noble idea about supporting the manager, but because between the two of them they hadn't a clue how to run a Championship club as proven by the result. He wouldn't know what was good, he's failed miserably as an owner and a leader and it's all his fault, not ours. Other clubs have been more successful who were smaller than us, they've eclipsed us because of Evans and Evans leadership alone.
Is this how easily your are convinced that he can mention Sir Bobby in a PR stunt and you will dance happily along as he leads you off a cliff? We're going into the third division, we're 100mil odd in debt, the supporters base has halved during his tenure - it's not guff, its fact. Get your head out of Evans backside and learn to read.
Lambert won't be here this time next year when we're not performing in League One. |
I make you right.
Apparently if you don’t set your sights high you will have more fun.
Fancy having a table and trying to finish in the top 6? No thanks. | | | |
| Our rightful level in football on 18:51 - Jan 24 with 3011 views | Superblue95 |
| Our rightful level in football on 18:03 - Jan 24 by MVBlue |
Also note clubs that have bounced back up and straight through the championship in recent years:
Leicester
Southampton
Wolves
Naridge
Huddersfield
Folk on here have long mooted it may do us more good than harm going down and sorting the club out getting a winning eay back. I was always of those clubs sailing by us with out midtable obscurity. It is a risky hope though. |
Leicester and Wolves were heavily funded and didn’t bounce straight back through the championship as you say. Huddersfield had a fluke season where everything came together after being a poor team in this league for years.
Only Saints and scum fit that criteria |  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 18:53 - Jan 24 with 3009 views | bournemouthblue |
That's a pretty depressing list in it's own right
We massively ballsed up by not going up under Royle and have missed the boat ever since [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 18:54]
|  |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 19:00 - Jan 24 with 2980 views | Bluefish |
| Our rightful level in football on 18:53 - Jan 24 by bournemouthblue |
That's a pretty depressing list in it's own right
We massively ballsed up by not going up under Royle and have missed the boat ever since [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 18:54]
|
Royle absolutely started the rot. Bottom half finishes were unheard of until BFJ managed to finish 15th after blowing what little money we had on rubbish and signing a load of journeymen. | |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 19:01 - Jan 24 with 2975 views | Pecker |
I don't. |  | | |
| Our rightful level in football on 19:13 - Jan 24 with 2955 views | Superblue95 |
| Our rightful level in football on 19:00 - Jan 24 by Bluefish |
Royle absolutely started the rot. Bottom half finishes were unheard of until BFJ managed to finish 15th after blowing what little money we had on rubbish and signing a load of journeymen. |
Just looked up our squad from that season and it doesn’t look much better than our current lot. He probably did well to steer us to 15th | |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 19:19 - Jan 24 with 2943 views | Bluefish |
| Our rightful level in football on 19:13 - Jan 24 by Superblue95 |
Just looked up our squad from that season and it doesn’t look much better than our current lot. He probably did well to steer us to 15th |
He made that squad, he signed fish on loan and paid money for parkin. He signed the likes of proudlock etc. He inherited a fine club with a great squad a youth players coming through and left us 15th | |
| |
| Our rightful level in football on 20:13 - Jan 24 with 2874 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Our rightful level in football on 14:02 - Jan 24 by wkj |
This is why terms like "We're a big club" do my head in. We're an average sized club with a big history. Our reach is far and wide, we perhaps have one of the better international fan bases than many teams in L1 - but to have an idea we deserve to be anywhere based on those things is wishful thinking. |
We don’t really have a “big” history compared to big teams.
We have won a lot less than Utd, Liverpool, Villa, City, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea, Forest, Derby etc.
We had a good side under Robson, and were a force for a decade or so but failed to win the league and that really is the distinction. Big teams win leagues. We have done it once. Fine, but that’s a lot less than many others. We were nearly men. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
