| If you were an MP from any persuasion 12:00 - Oct 19 with 3933 views | Bluefish |
Would you vote for the deal today and why?
I am as staunch remainer as you can find but I think at this point I would have to vote in favour of the deal. I would then campaign in the next GE on a mandate to reverse it. |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:01 - Oct 19 with 2360 views | sohamblue74 |
No deal. General Election followed by confirmatory referendum (Deal vs Remain choice) please. |  | | |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:05 - Oct 19 with 2345 views | WeWereZombies |
If voting in favour of the deal actually meant that we left the European Union on 31st October then reversing that decision in a General Election would mean signing up to the accession process, losing the rebates, probably having to adopt the Euro at some point in the future with all the pain of meeting the criteria and losing our national reserves in the process. It would be almost as daft as leaving with no deal. |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:39 - Oct 19 with 2287 views | hampstead_blue |
A few thoughts in time order, (I think)
Take the deal
My spinal fusion on Nov 6th is a total success and I can walk properly and run again, Marathon De Sable for my 50th birthday
General election
Lib Dems make ground from Tories and Labour, Con small majority.
JC sent to the back benches to continue his love affair with the bad guys
Boris to get us a good permanent deal as his small majority will keep it that way
Trump to be sent to jail and share a cell with Doreen the 20 stone dame of D Wing.
Democrats win and balance out the far right in the US getting us a better trade deal.
ITFC win L1 with a record points total |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:47 - Oct 19 with 2274 views | Dubtractor |
I'm a remainer (shock) but in all honesty not so wedded to remain vs leave in the grand scheme of things. My biggest concern isn't that we are leaving, but that we are leaving led by the tune of scary right wing loons who have no regard for the best interests of most of the country, coupled with what looks like closer ties with bloody Trump afterwards.
So my hope would be to veto this deal, which can in no remote way have been subject to due diligence at all, and hope that we somehow there is still a better way through a GE/better deal/remaining. |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:58 - Oct 19 with 2246 views | sparks |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:47 - Oct 19 by Dubtractor |
I'm a remainer (shock) but in all honesty not so wedded to remain vs leave in the grand scheme of things. My biggest concern isn't that we are leaving, but that we are leaving led by the tune of scary right wing loons who have no regard for the best interests of most of the country, coupled with what looks like closer ties with bloody Trump afterwards.
So my hope would be to veto this deal, which can in no remote way have been subject to due diligence at all, and hope that we somehow there is still a better way through a GE/better deal/remaining. |
I believe that a confirmatory refernedum is the appropriate approach. This deal v Remain (now there is a deal on the table).
However, if it doesnt go through- we have an election, in which Boris has very strong prospects of a strengthened mandate and a majority to do what the hell he wants.
That risk might well persuade me to vote yes. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:59 - Oct 19 with 2242 views | giant_stow |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:39 - Oct 19 by hampstead_blue |
A few thoughts in time order, (I think)
Take the deal
My spinal fusion on Nov 6th is a total success and I can walk properly and run again, Marathon De Sable for my 50th birthday
General election
Lib Dems make ground from Tories and Labour, Con small majority.
JC sent to the back benches to continue his love affair with the bad guys
Boris to get us a good permanent deal as his small majority will keep it that way
Trump to be sent to jail and share a cell with Doreen the 20 stone dame of D Wing.
Democrats win and balance out the far right in the US getting us a better trade deal.
ITFC win L1 with a record points total |
Best of luck in your opp Mr |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:01 - Oct 19 with 2230 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
As a "remainer", I would say no I would not. The reasons would be that the deal is still harmful for the UK and will cause division between the UK and Northern Ireland that is likely to lead to violence. I would vote for a deal that kept the UK in the customs union (the only deal that does not cause the problem with Northern Ireland) or for a confirmatory referendum where remain is on the ballot paper (either pitched against Johnson's deal or in some 3-way single transferable vote-type option with no deal on the table as no deal is probably not that much more damaging than Johnson's anyway and if the majority of the electorate are determined to go down that path we will get what we deserve). |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:19 - Oct 19 with 2184 views | J2BLUE |
I am a reformed leaver and would love the chance to put things right with a confirmation referendum but as far as i'm aware there is no MP for leave who has switched sides so if I was an MP i'd either be the first and last brave enough to stand up and say I got it wrong or i'd be like the rest and arguing for something damaging for the sake of it. |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:41 - Oct 19 with 2155 views | Bluefish |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 12:05 - Oct 19 by WeWereZombies |
If voting in favour of the deal actually meant that we left the European Union on 31st October then reversing that decision in a General Election would mean signing up to the accession process, losing the rebates, probably having to adopt the Euro at some point in the future with all the pain of meeting the criteria and losing our national reserves in the process. It would be almost as daft as leaving with no deal. |
Sounds a bit project fear mate, renegotiating to go back in will be the easiest deal in history....pretty sure this is how the answer goes | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:54 - Oct 19 with 2109 views | Herbivore |
I'd vote for it with a second referendum attached, otherwise no chance. |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:59 - Oct 19 with 2100 views | Herbivore |
I don't mind Ken Clarke, for a Tory, but this is ridiculous (from the Beeb):
"Former Chancellor Ken Clarke, who sits as an independent MP having lost the Conservative whip, says Boris Johnson's deal is "very bad" and "wholly inferior" to Theresa May's. He adds that he has "considerable sympathy" for the Northern Ireland unionists who oppose it.
But Mr Clarke says he will support the government."
There are MPs voting for a bad deal, a worse deal than what was on offer before, seemingly purely because they can't really be arsed anymore and just want something to happen. It's hard to respect that viewpoint. If MPs are fed up then let the people decide what ought to happen. | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:09 - Oct 19 with 2085 views | Bluefish |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:59 - Oct 19 by Herbivore |
I don't mind Ken Clarke, for a Tory, but this is ridiculous (from the Beeb):
"Former Chancellor Ken Clarke, who sits as an independent MP having lost the Conservative whip, says Boris Johnson's deal is "very bad" and "wholly inferior" to Theresa May's. He adds that he has "considerable sympathy" for the Northern Ireland unionists who oppose it.
But Mr Clarke says he will support the government."
There are MPs voting for a bad deal, a worse deal than what was on offer before, seemingly purely because they can't really be arsed anymore and just want something to happen. It's hard to respect that viewpoint. If MPs are fed up then let the people decide what ought to happen. |
I know what you are saying but the old deal has been rejected so isn't part of the equation today. I don't want the deal but I would vote to end the ridiculous mess and uncertainty and to ensure no deal doesn't happen | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:12 - Oct 19 with 2070 views | Darth_Koont |
No. Seems rushed and far more about party politics than actually thinking about the UK's future.
So a continuation of the last 3 or 4 years but this time really starting to scrape the barrel. |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:12 - Oct 19 with 2067 views | WeWereZombies |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:41 - Oct 19 by Bluefish |
Sounds a bit project fear mate, renegotiating to go back in will be the easiest deal in history....pretty sure this is how the answer goes |
You have got to be kidding, do you not read newspapers? | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:22 - Oct 19 with 2036 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:59 - Oct 19 by Herbivore |
I don't mind Ken Clarke, for a Tory, but this is ridiculous (from the Beeb):
"Former Chancellor Ken Clarke, who sits as an independent MP having lost the Conservative whip, says Boris Johnson's deal is "very bad" and "wholly inferior" to Theresa May's. He adds that he has "considerable sympathy" for the Northern Ireland unionists who oppose it.
But Mr Clarke says he will support the government."
There are MPs voting for a bad deal, a worse deal than what was on offer before, seemingly purely because they can't really be arsed anymore and just want something to happen. It's hard to respect that viewpoint. If MPs are fed up then let the people decide what ought to happen. |
Someone has found Ken's golden shower tapes! |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:29 - Oct 19 with 2007 views | Pinewoodblue |
I would feel obligated to honouring the result of the referendum as I would have been elected with a manifesto to do so, assuming the constituency had voted leave. I would also take note of a poll in today's Times showing leave has an eight point lead over remain. |  |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:31 - Oct 19 with 1997 views | J2BLUE |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:29 - Oct 19 by Pinewoodblue |
I would feel obligated to honouring the result of the referendum as I would have been elected with a manifesto to do so, assuming the constituency had voted leave. I would also take note of a poll in today's Times showing leave has an eight point lead over remain. |
Got any details of that poll? I would imagine it was flawed. | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:31 - Oct 19 with 1919 views | Bluefish |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:12 - Oct 19 by WeWereZombies |
You have got to be kidding, do you not read newspapers? |
No mate what do they say? | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:41 - Oct 19 with 1900 views | m14_blue |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 13:59 - Oct 19 by Herbivore |
I don't mind Ken Clarke, for a Tory, but this is ridiculous (from the Beeb):
"Former Chancellor Ken Clarke, who sits as an independent MP having lost the Conservative whip, says Boris Johnson's deal is "very bad" and "wholly inferior" to Theresa May's. He adds that he has "considerable sympathy" for the Northern Ireland unionists who oppose it.
But Mr Clarke says he will support the government."
There are MPs voting for a bad deal, a worse deal than what was on offer before, seemingly purely because they can't really be arsed anymore and just want something to happen. It's hard to respect that viewpoint. If MPs are fed up then let the people decide what ought to happen. |
The deal isn't good, no form of Brexit could be, the whole thing is utter madness.
However, we are where we are and there isn't a way out that doesn't harm the UK. A second referendum would be absolutely poisonous and I'm not sure the division would ever heal, even a remain win would just give oxygen to scum like Farage.
A general election would just give Johnson even more power, it's the perfect sh1tstorm.
I'd give anything to turn the clock back to before the referendum and stop this whole act of national suicide but we can't.
Sign the deal and let's try and make the best of it. | | | |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:50 - Oct 19 with 1880 views | Pinewoodblue |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:31 - Oct 19 by J2BLUE |
Got any details of that poll? I would imagine it was flawed. |
I like your logic. It must be a flawed poll as I don't agree. You have to.subscribe to see the full article. The choices were:-
Leave with deal 30%
Leave no deal 20%
Remain 42%
The other 8% presumably are brain dead.
The Times chose to headline on the fact it was 50% leave 42% remain | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:50 - Oct 19 with 1880 views | Herbivore |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 14:29 - Oct 19 by Pinewoodblue |
I would feel obligated to honouring the result of the referendum as I would have been elected with a manifesto to do so, assuming the constituency had voted leave. I would also take note of a poll in today's Times showing leave has an eight point lead over remain. |
The Brexit on offer doesn't resemble what has been promised to leavers over the past 3 years so I'm not convinced it has a legitimate democratic mandate. | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:52 - Oct 19 with 1873 views | Herbivore |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:50 - Oct 19 by Pinewoodblue |
I like your logic. It must be a flawed poll as I don't agree. You have to.subscribe to see the full article. The choices were:-
Leave with deal 30%
Leave no deal 20%
Remain 42%
The other 8% presumably are brain dead.
The Times chose to headline on the fact it was 50% leave 42% remain |
Although this also highlights that remain is the most popular option by 12 points. Leaving with a deal is incompatible with leaving without a deal and so you can't simply add together those tallies to show a majority for an impossible leave option. | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:54 - Oct 19 with 1869 views | Pinewoodblue |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:50 - Oct 19 by Herbivore |
The Brexit on offer doesn't resemble what has been promised to leavers over the past 3 years so I'm not convinced it has a legitimate democratic mandate. |
You still have difficulty in recognising the difference between opinion and fact.
In your opinion you have quoted a fact, but again that is just your opinion | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:55 - Oct 19 with 1865 views | Herbivore |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:54 - Oct 19 by Pinewoodblue |
You still have difficulty in recognising the difference between opinion and fact.
In your opinion you have quoted a fact, but again that is just your opinion |
You're a shoo in for most irrelevant post of the day with that one. You also expressed an opinion, I have expressed a counter opinion. | |
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| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:58 - Oct 19 with 1856 views | WeWereZombies |
| If you were an MP from any persuasion on 15:31 - Oct 19 by Bluefish |
No mate what do they say? |
'The EU has been consistent on this point for years.
The Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said in 2017, and the Vice President, Valdis Dombrovskis, reiterated in 2018, “The euro is meant to be the single currency of the European Union as a whole. All but two of our Member States are required and entitled to join the euro once they fulfil the conditions”.
To be clear, the UK is one of the two countries, alongside Denmark, that secured a legally-binding opt-out from the eurozone in the Maastricht Treaty.'
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-would-hav
'Bulgaria’s hopes of becoming the next member of the eurozone have been dealt a blow by the European Central Bank which has warned the EU’s poorest country has made minimal progress in joining the euro club.
In its latest biennial “convergence report” assessing non-euro economies, the ECB raised concerns over Bulgaria’s central bank independence, inflation dynamics and urged for “wide-ranging structural reforms”.'
https://www.ft.com/content/7eda46e0-5e78-11e8-ad91-e01af256df68
'France and Germany are fighting a €5bn battle over the fate of Margaret Thatcher’s prized EU budget rebate if Britain leaves the bloc in March without a Brexit deal.'
https://www.ft.com/content/8844cf0c-3aaa-11e9-b72b-2c7f526ca5d0 [Post edited 19 Oct 2019 16:53]
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