By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
I can only assume he is trying to say they are recruiting 50k extra but normally I would need 69k extra to add 50k. Either that or maybe 19k are on temporary contracts and now they will be on permanent. Who bloody knows? I have avoided most of it but the bits I've seen and contradictory although he says there is currently 280k and there will he 330k so that is a 50k increase.
i assume they mean adding 50k to the total number in post. how much your rate of recruitment needs to rise to achieve that depends on the rate at which existing people leave each year. it's all a question of turnover.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
0
50k extra nurses on 12:15 - Nov 28 with 3354 views
18.5k are nurses who are expected to leave the industry but will be persuaded to stay.
It's like when people claim that a player extending their contract with a year or two to run is a new signing.
They won't answer it properly because they don't need to, there is so little scrutiny applied to the Tory party
And interestingly, of those 18,500 'not new' nurses, there is already a funded commitment to reduce retention by 2% by 2025, which will be the equivalent to about 12,400 nurses.
So their plan is actually to: - recruit 31,500 genuinely new nurses - retain an additional 6,100 nurses over current retention targets, who would otherwise have left
I'm not sure why they couldn't have said they plan to recruit and extra 30k+, and increase retention rates. Maybe they want everyone talking about the semantics of the numbers instead of concentrating on their terrible record with the NHS?
18.5k are nurses who are expected to leave the industry but will be persuaded to stay.
It's like when people claim that a player extending their contract with a year or two to run is a new signing.
They won't answer it properly because they don't need to, there is so little scrutiny applied to the Tory party
If the explanation was that there will be 50k more nurses then that’s fine - in fact trying to retain nurses is entirely logical, and just focusing on new ones misleading as you could actually hire 50k new ones and end up with less of say 60k leave
However the issue is surely that the policy is quite simply obviously b*llocks, with the fact the Tories are now scrambling around trying to justify how they’ll do it showing how little it has been thought out
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
50k extra nurses on 12:13 - Nov 28 by lowhouseblue
i assume they mean adding 50k to the total number in post. how much your rate of recruitment needs to rise to achieve that depends on the rate at which existing people leave each year. it's all a question of turnover.
(a) If you have 100 nurses and no one leaves or joins then in 5 years you still have 100 nurses
(b) If you have 100 hundred nurses and over 5 years 20 leave and no-one joins you will have 80 nurses. This is 20 less than now.
(c) If you have 100 nurses, you retain those that would have left and recruit 20 nurses you will have 120 nurses. This is 40 more than you would have had after 5 years in situation (b) but only 20 more than you have now. That is only 20 'new' nurses.
To claim 40 more nurses is misleading in my book as most people would assume that the comparison is with what we have now than what we might notionally have in five years time
1
50k extra nurses on 12:30 - Nov 28 with 3263 views
(a) If you have 100 nurses and no one leaves or joins then in 5 years you still have 100 nurses
(b) If you have 100 hundred nurses and over 5 years 20 leave and no-one joins you will have 80 nurses. This is 20 less than now.
(c) If you have 100 nurses, you retain those that would have left and recruit 20 nurses you will have 120 nurses. This is 40 more than you would have had after 5 years in situation (b) but only 20 more than you have now. That is only 20 'new' nurses.
To claim 40 more nurses is misleading in my book as most people would assume that the comparison is with what we have now than what we might notionally have in five years time
absolutely. you need to rise the steady state by 40 in order to say you have 40 more.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
0
50k extra nurses on 12:34 - Nov 28 with 3238 views
(a) If you have 100 nurses and no one leaves or joins then in 5 years you still have 100 nurses
(b) If you have 100 hundred nurses and over 5 years 20 leave and no-one joins you will have 80 nurses. This is 20 less than now.
(c) If you have 100 nurses, you retain those that would have left and recruit 20 nurses you will have 120 nurses. This is 40 more than you would have had after 5 years in situation (b) but only 20 more than you have now. That is only 20 'new' nurses.
To claim 40 more nurses is misleading in my book as most people would assume that the comparison is with what we have now than what we might notionally have in five years time
And the 20,000 "new" police officers - forgetting the 21,000 posts they got rid of.
I'm not sure how they can be so sure that 19,000 demoralised nurses can be persuaded to stay - what's the incentive that is going to make them think everything is so much better?
You claim to be anti tory and labour at the mo, yet go in with both feet on anything labour do, and somehow try to justify a tory policy which even Boris has admitted is about 19000 nurses being retained.
Just saying.
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
You claim to be anti tory and labour at the mo, yet go in with both feet on anything labour do, and somehow try to justify a tory policy which even Boris has admitted is about 19000 nurses being retained.
Just saying.
Bit of an odd take there. I have raised this as a shambles and I am trying to scrutinise it because it doesn't make sense. The fact remains they have said clearly that it will go from 280 to 330 so that is why I want to know where this shambles is coming from
Bit of an odd take there. I have raised this as a shambles and I am trying to scrutinise it because it doesn't make sense. The fact remains they have said clearly that it will go from 280 to 330 so that is why I want to know where this shambles is coming from
if it goes from 280 to 330, however that is achieved (recruitment, retention, cloning …) then I think it would be fair to say that they have added 50. logically speaking and all that.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
0
50k extra nurses on 13:00 - Nov 28 with 3143 views
If the explanation was that there will be 50k more nurses then that’s fine - in fact trying to retain nurses is entirely logical, and just focusing on new ones misleading as you could actually hire 50k new ones and end up with less of say 60k leave
However the issue is surely that the policy is quite simply obviously b*llocks, with the fact the Tories are now scrambling around trying to justify how they’ll do it showing how little it has been thought out
The way you defend them in your first para is incredible. You can't say it's 50k MORE nurses if some of them are already nurses.
Can't believe I'm agreeing with Piers Morgan here.
50k extra nurses on 12:59 - Nov 28 by lowhouseblue
if it goes from 280 to 330, however that is achieved (recruitment, retention, cloning …) then I think it would be fair to say that they have added 50. logically speaking and all that.
So why are they struggling with the maths to get there then? Why is he saying add 31k?
The way you defend them in your first para is incredible. You can't say it's 50k MORE nurses if some of them are already nurses.
Can't believe I'm agreeing with Piers Morgan here.
(from 3:20)
What? I’m saying if the end result is 50k more nurses than there are today then it’s fine, the issue is that there clearly isn’t any intention to do so as you can tell by their desperate attempts to scramble some sort of explanation
Not sure how you concluded I was defending them - in fact I think you’ve completely misunderstood the point tbh
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
40,000 nurse vacancies largely due to devaluation of the £ after the referendum..... quite why would you want to analyse or believe their latest lies.
Nurse numbers will continue to drop
Last year my wife was seriously ill in one of the largest, most prestigeous teaching hospitals in the country. They were closing wards and cancelling operations because so many nurses had gone back to Spain & Portugal. All the Tories are doing is suggesting that they WILL replace those people by persuading disillusioned staff to remain or encourage others to suddenly enter the profession.
[Post edited 28 Nov 2019 13:21]
0
50k extra nurses on 13:22 - Nov 28 with 3023 views
What? I’m saying if the end result is 50k more nurses than there are today then it’s fine, the issue is that there clearly isn’t any intention to do so as you can tell by their desperate attempts to scramble some sort of explanation
Not sure how you concluded I was defending them - in fact I think you’ve completely misunderstood the point tbh
What does this bit mean then: "and just focusing on new ones misleading as you could actually hire 50k new ones and end up with less of say 60k leave."
Of course, if there are 50k more nurses in 5 years than there are now then it is fine. But that's not what they're saying. That 50k figure is including 19k who are already nurses that they hope to retain.
Last year my wife was seriously ill in one of the largest, most prestigeous teaching hospitals in the country. They were closing wards and cancelling operations because so many nurses had gone back to Spain & Portugal. All the Tories are doing is suggesting that they WILL replace those people by persuading disillusioned staff to remain or encourage others to suddenly enter the profession.
[Post edited 28 Nov 2019 13:21]
Then that doesn't make the 280 to 330 stack up. They have either left and will come back or they won't be leaving it doesn't make sense
Why is he talking about retainment then? It's neither here nor there. Retainment should happen anyway, and that would be a bonus (i.e. nothing to do with the 50k figure).
Given the lack of basic numeracy across all political parties around one wonders why a black left-wing woman is the only one who seems to have picked up the "I can't add up" memes and comments.
For more ITFC chat and some fantasy football mutterings follow me on twitter @fpl_tractor.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
