| Agree with Nicola 00:48 - Dec 13 with 1209 views | Darth_Koont |
Good result for Scotland but bad result for the UK as a whole. |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 00:49 - Dec 13 with 947 views | wkj |
I am surprised she didn't outright claim it was bad for Scotland too. Any chance of the indy ref is up in smoke if the exit polls ring true. |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 00:52 - Dec 13 with 931 views | StokieBlue |
Great result in terms of MPs however it means no referendum under the Tories so surely it's an awful result for Scotland if you're an SNP member?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Agree with Nicola on 00:52 - Dec 13 with 926 views | wkj |
| Agree with Nicola on 00:52 - Dec 13 by StokieBlue |
Great result in terms of MPs however it means no referendum under the Tories so surely it's an awful result for Scotland if you're an SNP member?
SB |
:( As an SNP member (which I am), It is terrible news. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 00:55 - Dec 13 with 909 views | Darth_Koont |
| Agree with Nicola on 00:52 - Dec 13 by StokieBlue |
Great result in terms of MPs however it means no referendum under the Tories so surely it's an awful result for Scotland if you're an SNP member?
SB |
Time to go Catalan. This ship is sinking. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:01 - Dec 13 with 883 views | WeWereZombies |
| Agree with Nicola on 00:55 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
Time to go Catalan. This ship is sinking. |
Different constitution here but even if a Catalan style UDI was possible you have to see that it has not gone well for them over the last year.
However, if the exit polls are an indication of the final result then I can see something it might cause a great deal of disillusionment with the Liberal Democrats and Labour thus paving the way for an even greater SNP presence. A second independence referendum may get forced no matter what the Conservatives try and do because Westminster's hold on the country becomes untenable in a social sense. |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:03 - Dec 13 with 872 views | The_Last_Baron |
Terrible result for Scotland but a great victory for the UK. |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:04 - Dec 13 with 865 views | Darth_Koont |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:01 - Dec 13 by WeWereZombies |
Different constitution here but even if a Catalan style UDI was possible you have to see that it has not gone well for them over the last year.
However, if the exit polls are an indication of the final result then I can see something it might cause a great deal of disillusionment with the Liberal Democrats and Labour thus paving the way for an even greater SNP presence. A second independence referendum may get forced no matter what the Conservatives try and do because Westminster's hold on the country becomes untenable in a social sense. |
What’s the point of such a union? With the bigger and better EU standing right there, showing how countries like Scotland can flourish?
Total no brainer. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:04 - Dec 13 with 865 views | wkj |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:01 - Dec 13 by WeWereZombies |
Different constitution here but even if a Catalan style UDI was possible you have to see that it has not gone well for them over the last year.
However, if the exit polls are an indication of the final result then I can see something it might cause a great deal of disillusionment with the Liberal Democrats and Labour thus paving the way for an even greater SNP presence. A second independence referendum may get forced no matter what the Conservatives try and do because Westminster's hold on the country becomes untenable in a social sense. |
Given some of the chatter I have seen among members, there is a REAL hunger to field candidates in England, in truth there was ample chatter about it before hand too. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:05 - Dec 13 with 859 views | vapour_trail |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:03 - Dec 13 by The_Last_Baron |
Terrible result for Scotland but a great victory for the UK. |
Weren’t you supporting Brexit party because the tories wasn’t your cup of tea? |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:05 - Dec 13 with 854 views | wkj |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:05 - Dec 13 by vapour_trail |
Weren’t you supporting Brexit party because the tories wasn’t your cup of tea? |
Not like Baron to hedge his bets. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:07 - Dec 13 with 844 views | bazgammon |
Yep, Give us English a vote on Independence and wee jimmy krankie would get her wish of freeeedom as we could all go it alone. |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:07 - Dec 13 with 843 views | Oldsmoker |
| Agree with Nicola on 00:49 - Dec 13 by wkj |
I am surprised she didn't outright claim it was bad for Scotland too. Any chance of the indy ref is up in smoke if the exit polls ring true. |
The Tories won't put forward a bill to give them a referendum like they did last time.
UDI - Unilateral Declaration of Independence - may be an option.
However, a more likely route is the Tory Brexit deal. They might sacrifice NI in the Brexit deal to get it past the EU. Brexit will force NI to cooperate with the Republic and form cross-border agreements in a way that might make NI see their future lies with the Republic as Westminster abandons them.
If NI leaves the Union then the door opens for Scotland.
I don't think the Tories understand NI so this is quite possible. |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:10 - Dec 13 with 829 views | wkj |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:07 - Dec 13 by Oldsmoker |
The Tories won't put forward a bill to give them a referendum like they did last time.
UDI - Unilateral Declaration of Independence - may be an option.
However, a more likely route is the Tory Brexit deal. They might sacrifice NI in the Brexit deal to get it past the EU. Brexit will force NI to cooperate with the Republic and form cross-border agreements in a way that might make NI see their future lies with the Republic as Westminster abandons them.
If NI leaves the Union then the door opens for Scotland.
I don't think the Tories understand NI so this is quite possible. |
Do you really think that will happen though Smokes? with an 80 strong majority, they have the keys to the kingdom and wont have to make any sort of deals internally, surely? | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:15 - Dec 13 with 816 views | Darth_Koont |
| Agree with Nicola on 00:52 - Dec 13 by StokieBlue |
Great result in terms of MPs however it means no referendum under the Tories so surely it's an awful result for Scotland if you're an SNP member?
SB |
The UK government no longer has the mandate. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:18 - Dec 13 with 798 views | StokieBlue |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:15 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
The UK government no longer has the mandate. |
How do you figure?
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:20 - Dec 13 with 794 views | vapour_trail |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:15 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
The UK government no longer has the mandate. |
Scotland looks as if it might have less alignment with England and Wales than at any point in recent memory.
If the tories deny them a referendum, it will fly in the face of democracy. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:22 - Dec 13 with 788 views | Oldsmoker |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:10 - Dec 13 by wkj |
Do you really think that will happen though Smokes? with an 80 strong majority, they have the keys to the kingdom and wont have to make any sort of deals internally, surely? |
No-one knows what Johnson is prepared to do to "Get Brexit done".
The 'border in the Irish Sea' will mean Westminster selling out NI and Arlene Foster looks a mean and angry woman most of the time.
We will have to wait until January to find out but if NI get short-changed then thats the first step towards driving a wedge between Westminster and NI. [Post edited 13 Dec 2019 1:23]
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:24 - Dec 13 with 779 views | Darth_Koont |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:20 - Dec 13 by vapour_trail |
Scotland looks as if it might have less alignment with England and Wales than at any point in recent memory.
If the tories deny them a referendum, it will fly in the face of democracy. |
Indeed.
Shocking that it’s come to this given the warnings but inevitable given the way the country and the political debate has gone since then.
Very sad. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:26 - Dec 13 with 769 views | WeWereZombies |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:22 - Dec 13 by Oldsmoker |
No-one knows what Johnson is prepared to do to "Get Brexit done".
The 'border in the Irish Sea' will mean Westminster selling out NI and Arlene Foster looks a mean and angry woman most of the time.
We will have to wait until January to find out but if NI get short-changed then thats the first step towards driving a wedge between Westminster and NI. [Post edited 13 Dec 2019 1:23]
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I still can't see the DUP standing by and letting the North cede to the Republic, not given the level of sectarian flags on display the last time I was there eighteen months ago, even if the withdrawal of European Union funding sees employment fall dramatically. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 01:38 - Dec 13 with 741 views | Oldsmoker |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:26 - Dec 13 by WeWereZombies |
I still can't see the DUP standing by and letting the North cede to the Republic, not given the level of sectarian flags on display the last time I was there eighteen months ago, even if the withdrawal of European Union funding sees employment fall dramatically. |
It will take time.
Each incident that tells the NI people that Westminster doesn't care about them might result in voters deserting the DUP. There are other unionist parties in NI. A large Tory majority means they don't need the DUP support that May bought to prop up her government. That means no more Downing street visits for Arlene Foster. She will lose her influence and that has to weaken her.
Everytime I think I understand NI politics I learn something else that contradicts it. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 10:39 - Dec 13 with 634 views | WeWereZombies |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:38 - Dec 13 by Oldsmoker |
It will take time.
Each incident that tells the NI people that Westminster doesn't care about them might result in voters deserting the DUP. There are other unionist parties in NI. A large Tory majority means they don't need the DUP support that May bought to prop up her government. That means no more Downing street visits for Arlene Foster. She will lose her influence and that has to weaken her.
Everytime I think I understand NI politics I learn something else that contradicts it. |
I will give some ground to you now that I have seen the election results in Northern Ireland, one crumb of comfort in the lockdown of SNP and Conservative triumphs is that the extremist parties in Northern Ireland have had a bad night with the DUP losing two seats and the BBC saying that Sinn Féin have seen their share of the vote drop by 6.7% (DUP by 5.4%) although their graphics for voting changes since 2017 seem to contradict that, still trying to puzzle that one out:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50766004
Gains for the cross-community Alliance Party are especially encouraging as well as the more moderate SDLP taking a seat off Sinn Féin. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 10:55 - Dec 13 with 609 views | Radlett_blue |
| Agree with Nicola on 01:20 - Dec 13 by vapour_trail |
Scotland looks as if it might have less alignment with England and Wales than at any point in recent memory.
If the tories deny them a referendum, it will fly in the face of democracy. |
Scotland had a referendum in 2014 years ago and 55% of Scots preferred to stay. At the time, even the SNP called it a "once in a generation" event. Why do they need another referendum?
Rather like the English constituencies turning to the Conservatives doesn't mean they support all their policies, even Ms Sturgeon admitted yesterday that not every SNP voter wants independence - “I don’t pretend that every single person that voted SNP yesterday will necessarily support independence".
Does Scotland now have to have a referendum every 5 years until Sturgeon gets the result she wants? As we saw with Brexit, referenda on controversial issues can produce greater division, rather than "settle the issue". |  |
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| Agree with Nicola on 10:56 - Dec 13 with 607 views | r2d2 |
Not great for JImmy Cranky, because Boris wont give her a referendum |  | | |
| Agree with Nicola on 11:05 - Dec 13 with 561 views | WeWereZombies |
| Agree with Nicola on 10:55 - Dec 13 by Radlett_blue |
Scotland had a referendum in 2014 years ago and 55% of Scots preferred to stay. At the time, even the SNP called it a "once in a generation" event. Why do they need another referendum?
Rather like the English constituencies turning to the Conservatives doesn't mean they support all their policies, even Ms Sturgeon admitted yesterday that not every SNP voter wants independence - “I don’t pretend that every single person that voted SNP yesterday will necessarily support independence".
Does Scotland now have to have a referendum every 5 years until Sturgeon gets the result she wants? As we saw with Brexit, referenda on controversial issues can produce greater division, rather than "settle the issue". |
It is difficult to know at the moment which way the players in this game will proceed, the most sensible thing I would say is that a push for much more devolution would quell the calls for a second referendum and make Scotland easier to govern (there is a small but serious risk that it could become ungovernable from Westminster if the Conservatives become too full of themselves). However, going by political events of recent years and the self seeking personalities that some politicians demonstrate that it far too sensible to happen. | |
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| Agree with Nicola on 11:06 - Dec 13 with 560 views | BiGDonnie |
Nope, the country got what they voted for. Great result. |  |
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