| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE 08:52 - Dec 17 with 1567 views | Herbivore |
Not saying I agree with all of it and it seeks to absolve Labour of any responsibility at all when clearly Corbyn was a big issue for voters. Some interesting thoughts though and they chime with a focus group that C4 showed extracts from where Leave voters in the North felt Brexit would only negatively impact the wealthy and so they were intending to vote for the Tories. They also saw Johnson as being honest and standing up for people like them, which is fairly incontrovertible evidence of actual brainwashing. |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 10:06 - Dec 17 with 1481 views | Guthrum |
I'm sorry, but there is an answer to all the bleating about the media demolishing Corbyn and brainwashing voters. And it's one which is probably easier now than at any time in our history.
Set up your own.
You don't even need expensive printworks and distribution systems any more, just some people who understand how to manipulate Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, how to get web postings to go viral. Has the Left got no-one who can do that?
Pro-Labour newspapers do exist, such as the Mirror. Make maximum use of them.
Put out snappy, media-friendly soundbite slogans, not earnest expositions of policy. TV news programmes do not broadcast long and waffly speeches. Be as dirty as the opposition. When they go low, don't go high - kick them in the teeth.
Prepare early. Don't act surprised when the media turns out not to be impartial. They never have been, in the whole history of journalism. Be ready to get the first blows in. It's a competition to ruthlessly get your points home, not one as to whom is most righteously truthful. |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:01 - Dec 17 with 1419 views | Oldsmoker |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 10:06 - Dec 17 by Guthrum |
I'm sorry, but there is an answer to all the bleating about the media demolishing Corbyn and brainwashing voters. And it's one which is probably easier now than at any time in our history.
Set up your own.
You don't even need expensive printworks and distribution systems any more, just some people who understand how to manipulate Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, how to get web postings to go viral. Has the Left got no-one who can do that?
Pro-Labour newspapers do exist, such as the Mirror. Make maximum use of them.
Put out snappy, media-friendly soundbite slogans, not earnest expositions of policy. TV news programmes do not broadcast long and waffly speeches. Be as dirty as the opposition. When they go low, don't go high - kick them in the teeth.
Prepare early. Don't act surprised when the media turns out not to be impartial. They never have been, in the whole history of journalism. Be ready to get the first blows in. It's a competition to ruthlessly get your points home, not one as to whom is most righteously truthful. |
You highlight a point made by some research I saw.
People read the headlines that come through on their smart-phones but few read the article in full.
So, get it all in the headline - the soundbite of you like. It seems the "Get Brexit done" was the one message that got through above all the others. |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:34 - Dec 17 with 1386 views | Parsley |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 10:06 - Dec 17 by Guthrum |
I'm sorry, but there is an answer to all the bleating about the media demolishing Corbyn and brainwashing voters. And it's one which is probably easier now than at any time in our history.
Set up your own.
You don't even need expensive printworks and distribution systems any more, just some people who understand how to manipulate Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, how to get web postings to go viral. Has the Left got no-one who can do that?
Pro-Labour newspapers do exist, such as the Mirror. Make maximum use of them.
Put out snappy, media-friendly soundbite slogans, not earnest expositions of policy. TV news programmes do not broadcast long and waffly speeches. Be as dirty as the opposition. When they go low, don't go high - kick them in the teeth.
Prepare early. Don't act surprised when the media turns out not to be impartial. They never have been, in the whole history of journalism. Be ready to get the first blows in. It's a competition to ruthlessly get your points home, not one as to whom is most righteously truthful. |
Is there not a danger of this leading to a race to the bottom? When I see articles like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50726500 about the number of misleading political ads I would want this stopped/regulated rather than everyone competing to engage more in this kind of activity. |  | | |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:43 - Dec 17 with 1369 views | Steve_M |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 10:06 - Dec 17 by Guthrum |
I'm sorry, but there is an answer to all the bleating about the media demolishing Corbyn and brainwashing voters. And it's one which is probably easier now than at any time in our history.
Set up your own.
You don't even need expensive printworks and distribution systems any more, just some people who understand how to manipulate Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, how to get web postings to go viral. Has the Left got no-one who can do that?
Pro-Labour newspapers do exist, such as the Mirror. Make maximum use of them.
Put out snappy, media-friendly soundbite slogans, not earnest expositions of policy. TV news programmes do not broadcast long and waffly speeches. Be as dirty as the opposition. When they go low, don't go high - kick them in the teeth.
Prepare early. Don't act surprised when the media turns out not to be impartial. They never have been, in the whole history of journalism. Be ready to get the first blows in. It's a competition to ruthlessly get your points home, not one as to whom is most righteously truthful. |
"Set up your own."
This has been part of the problem, highly partisan and inflammatory pro-Corbyn bloggers have created a bubble around the Dear Leader which made the party leadership ignore the wider reality. |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:45 - Dec 17 with 1366 views | Freddies_Ears |
Mate in the West Midlands said "it can't get any worse here, but at least Brexit will hurt London". The politics of greed, fuelled by the politics of envy. |  | | |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 12:03 - Dec 17 with 1331 views | LankHenners |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 10:06 - Dec 17 by Guthrum |
I'm sorry, but there is an answer to all the bleating about the media demolishing Corbyn and brainwashing voters. And it's one which is probably easier now than at any time in our history.
Set up your own.
You don't even need expensive printworks and distribution systems any more, just some people who understand how to manipulate Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, how to get web postings to go viral. Has the Left got no-one who can do that?
Pro-Labour newspapers do exist, such as the Mirror. Make maximum use of them.
Put out snappy, media-friendly soundbite slogans, not earnest expositions of policy. TV news programmes do not broadcast long and waffly speeches. Be as dirty as the opposition. When they go low, don't go high - kick them in the teeth.
Prepare early. Don't act surprised when the media turns out not to be impartial. They never have been, in the whole history of journalism. Be ready to get the first blows in. It's a competition to ruthlessly get your points home, not one as to whom is most righteously truthful. |
The Left don't have a problem doing that, in term of viral posts they're streaks ahead of anything the Tories put up. If anything they're almost too good at it to the point their opposition can say they only care about social media likes than real issues.
As Steve alludes to above, there was plenty of partisan media outlets but the problem was they were all by and large 'pro-Corbyn' than 'pro-Labour' which a) made them easy to ridicule and b) meant they alienated anybody who, at least, wasn't sold on Corbyn.
The biggest problem is that there is a large chunk of the electorate that doesn't appear to mind being lied to or treated with contempt and it's sad to say that one side did a better job of exploiting that than the other. |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 12:55 - Dec 17 with 1255 views | Bluefish |
Not sure why is being done to death
1) Brexit was the biggest single issue by miles. Labour refused to take a position for so long to try and not be divisive, they then blocked all moves from elsewhere and they lost just about everyone on the subject.
2) The anti semitism wasn't dealt with and the looking for ways not to apologise lost trust.
3) The spending pledges became comical and desperate
Yes they became London centric but they wouldn't have mattered too much because so are the Tories. Yes the press hammered him but Momentum do their own job with that too. The 3 reasons above killed Labour and that comes down to Corbz and McDonnell. They had such an advantage in the north through loyalty, it will be very difficult to reclaim that now. |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:03 - Dec 17 with 1239 views | Bluefish |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:01 - Dec 17 by Oldsmoker |
You highlight a point made by some research I saw.
People read the headlines that come through on their smart-phones but few read the article in full.
So, get it all in the headline - the soundbite of you like. It seems the "Get Brexit done" was the one message that got through above all the others. |
Research shows that 3 words are needed and that take back control was the decisive slogan for leave. Get brexit done became the new version, momentum were outplayed at their own game. | |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:06 - Dec 17 with 1222 views | Bluefish |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:45 - Dec 17 by Freddies_Ears |
Mate in the West Midlands said "it can't get any worse here, but at least Brexit will hurt London". The politics of greed, fuelled by the politics of envy. |
I've heard that angle from some in the north as well. Seems utterly bonkers but is how things have become. They say who cares about jobs because they haven't got any, met people that refuse to visit london out of principle | |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:13 - Dec 17 with 1199 views | BloomBlue |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 12:55 - Dec 17 by Bluefish |
Not sure why is being done to death
1) Brexit was the biggest single issue by miles. Labour refused to take a position for so long to try and not be divisive, they then blocked all moves from elsewhere and they lost just about everyone on the subject.
2) The anti semitism wasn't dealt with and the looking for ways not to apologise lost trust.
3) The spending pledges became comical and desperate
Yes they became London centric but they wouldn't have mattered too much because so are the Tories. Yes the press hammered him but Momentum do their own job with that too. The 3 reasons above killed Labour and that comes down to Corbz and McDonnell. They had such an advantage in the north through loyalty, it will be very difficult to reclaim that now. |
A Labour MP I thought got it spot on at the weekend when he said Labour's position on Brexit was so confusing that Remainers thought Labour was pro leave and Brexiteers thought Labour was pro remain whereas the Cons were decisive with their leave campaign and that confusion could only end one way and it did with a win for Boris |  | | |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:16 - Dec 17 with 1185 views | Darth_Koont |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:43 - Dec 17 by Steve_M |
"Set up your own."
This has been part of the problem, highly partisan and inflammatory pro-Corbyn bloggers have created a bubble around the Dear Leader which made the party leadership ignore the wider reality. |
The wider reality isn't the objective truth though.
Isn't the wider reality created or at least skewed by the predominantly right-wing press, online cheerleaders like Guido and the populist, social media-friendly rantings of those even further right of the Tories like Farage and Robinson etc.? The latter who nevertheless forced Brexit and recruited the critical votes to get the Tories re-elected.
The "wider reality" needs changing before a political party actually tries to get elected in it. I'd spend the next couple of years pushing for more media representation of social democratic views, better media and social media regulation and stricter campaigning standards. Otherwise I don't see much of a chance for whoever tries to mount an election bid from the left - and probably even from the so-called centre too. |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:36 - Dec 17 with 1157 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:13 - Dec 17 by BloomBlue |
A Labour MP I thought got it spot on at the weekend when he said Labour's position on Brexit was so confusing that Remainers thought Labour was pro leave and Brexiteers thought Labour was pro remain whereas the Cons were decisive with their leave campaign and that confusion could only end one way and it did with a win for Boris |
I wouldn’t say it was confusing but it did mean that ardent remainers couldn’t be certain of the outcome under a Labour government and vice-versa
Unfortunately whether or not the approach itself was a sensible one or not (and I’m not convinced it was personally) is fairly irrelevant given the above |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:48 - Dec 17 with 1137 views | cbower |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 10:06 - Dec 17 by Guthrum |
I'm sorry, but there is an answer to all the bleating about the media demolishing Corbyn and brainwashing voters. And it's one which is probably easier now than at any time in our history.
Set up your own.
You don't even need expensive printworks and distribution systems any more, just some people who understand how to manipulate Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, how to get web postings to go viral. Has the Left got no-one who can do that?
Pro-Labour newspapers do exist, such as the Mirror. Make maximum use of them.
Put out snappy, media-friendly soundbite slogans, not earnest expositions of policy. TV news programmes do not broadcast long and waffly speeches. Be as dirty as the opposition. When they go low, don't go high - kick them in the teeth.
Prepare early. Don't act surprised when the media turns out not to be impartial. They never have been, in the whole history of journalism. Be ready to get the first blows in. It's a competition to ruthlessly get your points home, not one as to whom is most righteously truthful. |
I love the "Prepare early" advice. Why did Labour wait for a GE to put forward its manifesto, costings and ideas? Too much of it seemed to be on the hoof, off the cuff - call it what you will. The silence of Corbyn and his leadership since 2017 in bringing their own policies to the fore has been deafening. They have, instead, sought refuge in criticizing the woeful attempts of May to deliver Brexit whilst Conservative austerity has ravaged public services with a particularly harsh time for low wage earners. They should simultaneously have been promoting their own agenda, tweaking ideas (ditching the frankly insane - 4 day week for example) so the public could really buy in to what they were proposing. They have failed to do this and all of their attempts over Brexit have simply emboldened the Tories and lost them support when, perversely, the Tories were seemingly at their weakest and internally divided too! |  |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:59 - Dec 17 with 1102 views | Steve_M |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 13:48 - Dec 17 by cbower |
I love the "Prepare early" advice. Why did Labour wait for a GE to put forward its manifesto, costings and ideas? Too much of it seemed to be on the hoof, off the cuff - call it what you will. The silence of Corbyn and his leadership since 2017 in bringing their own policies to the fore has been deafening. They have, instead, sought refuge in criticizing the woeful attempts of May to deliver Brexit whilst Conservative austerity has ravaged public services with a particularly harsh time for low wage earners. They should simultaneously have been promoting their own agenda, tweaking ideas (ditching the frankly insane - 4 day week for example) so the public could really buy in to what they were proposing. They have failed to do this and all of their attempts over Brexit have simply emboldened the Tories and lost them support when, perversely, the Tories were seemingly at their weakest and internally divided too! |
Don't forget the brilliance of running campaigns to deselect Labour MPs for being insufficiently loyal as recently as this Autumn. | |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 14:11 - Dec 17 with 1070 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:34 - Dec 17 by Parsley |
Is there not a danger of this leading to a race to the bottom? When I see articles like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50726500 about the number of misleading political ads I would want this stopped/regulated rather than everyone competing to engage more in this kind of activity. |
The race is already running. Standing aloof merely gives the opponent a head start.
The whole point of Cummings was to play as dirty as possible. How are you going to beat that when objective truth has no traction? | |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 14:18 - Dec 17 with 1050 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 11:43 - Dec 17 by Steve_M |
"Set up your own."
This has been part of the problem, highly partisan and inflammatory pro-Corbyn bloggers have created a bubble around the Dear Leader which made the party leadership ignore the wider reality. |
I'm talking about outward-facing "journalism", to go after the attention of the public, not internal bloggery for the consumption of the faithful.
It must have quickly become obvious to Labour's canvassers that the messages weren't getting through, even if they didn't realise before. Which suggests, as you say, willful or blissfully ignorant sticking of heads in sand. | |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 14:31 - Dec 17 with 1029 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 12:03 - Dec 17 by LankHenners |
The Left don't have a problem doing that, in term of viral posts they're streaks ahead of anything the Tories put up. If anything they're almost too good at it to the point their opposition can say they only care about social media likes than real issues.
As Steve alludes to above, there was plenty of partisan media outlets but the problem was they were all by and large 'pro-Corbyn' than 'pro-Labour' which a) made them easy to ridicule and b) meant they alienated anybody who, at least, wasn't sold on Corbyn.
The biggest problem is that there is a large chunk of the electorate that doesn't appear to mind being lied to or treated with contempt and it's sad to say that one side did a better job of exploiting that than the other. |
'Being lied to' - or, to put it another way, being told what they want to hear. That there is a quick and easy solution to their problems (Brexit) and that confusion will no longer reign. That's far easier to grasp than Labour's nuanced position and vague promises (taking months to negotiate yet another new deal). | |
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| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 15:09 - Dec 17 with 991 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting thread on Northern leave voters and the GE on 10:06 - Dec 17 by Guthrum |
I'm sorry, but there is an answer to all the bleating about the media demolishing Corbyn and brainwashing voters. And it's one which is probably easier now than at any time in our history.
Set up your own.
You don't even need expensive printworks and distribution systems any more, just some people who understand how to manipulate Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, how to get web postings to go viral. Has the Left got no-one who can do that?
Pro-Labour newspapers do exist, such as the Mirror. Make maximum use of them.
Put out snappy, media-friendly soundbite slogans, not earnest expositions of policy. TV news programmes do not broadcast long and waffly speeches. Be as dirty as the opposition. When they go low, don't go high - kick them in the teeth.
Prepare early. Don't act surprised when the media turns out not to be impartial. They never have been, in the whole history of journalism. Be ready to get the first blows in. It's a competition to ruthlessly get your points home, not one as to whom is most righteously truthful. |
Trying to put out a platform with the reach of outlets like the Sun, Mail and Express is no easy task. Online content will likely just end up shouting into the echo chamber. | |
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