| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum 00:28 - Aug 8 with 7149 views | J2BLUE |
Interesting thread started there by a Portsmouth fan suggesting a boycott of the 17* clubs who voted the salary cap in. The idea seems to have been generally well received.
I must say, I quite like the idea. We've been screwed over twice now by the smaller clubs in this league and the argument is why give them revenue and the benefit of our large away following?
Also, credit to their poster Scootsie who posted:
It’s like going to the strippers with a load of cash and being told you can’t see any tits cos nee one else in there can afford them.
https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/boycott-the-17-clubs.1525492/
*Maybe give Peterborough a pass as they voted to play on and MacAnthony at least tried to get the cap based on turnover.
Thoughts? [Post edited 8 Aug 2020 0:29]
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 06:00 - Aug 8 with 6611 views | bournemouthblue |
We don't know how long it's going to be before we can visit any ground
It's an interesting idea, are our fans disciplined enough to do it?
Do you save all the money for the 'big club' away days essentially?
It does seem a fair point, what is the point in putting any extra revenue in these clubs pockets if they essentially want to hamstring our wage budgets to suit them
I imagine all it means will be that the smaller clubs boycott the big clubs too?
I'm sure the coach load of fans from Fleetwood, assuming they were actually against it, is neither here nor there
I still don't get, why they are introducing this rule when League One has a rule where it's something like, clubs not being able to spend more than 60% of turnover on wages?
That seems fair enough to me?
Why the need for a flat cost, it essentially turns League One into an academy development league and will make the bridge to the Championship vast |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 06:53 - Aug 8 with 6529 views | BlueBadger |
As this guy, 'Flash Gordon' in the thread says: 'It's a poor strategy but blaming small clubs is ridiculous. If we can't create a competitive advantage down here without overspending then we need to look at our own clubs and their mismanagement. |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 06:58 - Aug 8 with 6527 views | bournemouthblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 06:53 - Aug 8 by BlueBadger |
As this guy, 'Flash Gordon' in the thread says: 'It's a poor strategy but blaming small clubs is ridiculous. If we can't create a competitive advantage down here without overspending then we need to look at our own clubs and their mismanagement. |
The will be loopholes to be exploited but fundamentally, it does drive us down to the bottom rung of clubs at this level
Yes okay, you could reinvest the spare revenue into infrastructure and the academy or simply signing more promising youth players
It's certainly going to put us on the back foot though and may result in some cost cutting measures
In three seasons time, it will allow clubs to plan for it but we're essentially shooting in the dark here
It probably also offers Championship clubs a great opportunity to pluck a lot of League One talent at knockdown prices | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 08:21 - Aug 8 with 6291 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
My thoughts?
Who can blame them? If we were a 'smaller' club, we would have voted for the cap. |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 08:39 - Aug 8 with 6238 views | Guthrum |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 06:58 - Aug 8 by bournemouthblue |
The will be loopholes to be exploited but fundamentally, it does drive us down to the bottom rung of clubs at this level
Yes okay, you could reinvest the spare revenue into infrastructure and the academy or simply signing more promising youth players
It's certainly going to put us on the back foot though and may result in some cost cutting measures
In three seasons time, it will allow clubs to plan for it but we're essentially shooting in the dark here
It probably also offers Championship clubs a great opportunity to pluck a lot of League One talent at knockdown prices |
It doesn't 'drive us down to the bottom rung', it merely puts everyone on the same rung financially (except those unable to even keep up with salary cap levels). If all the good players get skimmed off*, that affects all clubs in L1. Tho the Champ will, itself, have limits on how many they can afford to sign.
As Badger says, we will have to become better at the other parts of creating a successful football team. In some of which we will still have a head start, such as the Academy, the infrastructure and the history/reputation.
It's not as if ITFC has heretofore been using its "financial clout" to dominate the division, anyway.
* Doubt that will become more likely than it already was. |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 09:27 - Aug 8 with 6098 views | Pinewoodblue |
Even when fans are allowed to attend games it seems unlikely that there will be away fans in the ground.
To get the salary cap through they first had to change the rule that required 75% of clubs to agree.
Anyone know if Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich etc voted against the change. It was obvious why the rule change was proposed. |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 09:39 - Aug 8 with 6049 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 06:53 - Aug 8 by BlueBadger |
As this guy, 'Flash Gordon' in the thread says: 'It's a poor strategy but blaming small clubs is ridiculous. If we can't create a competitive advantage down here without overspending then we need to look at our own clubs and their mismanagement. |
I think there is a difference between over spending, and spending within your financial capabilities. And our capabilities with a drastically larger gate to most others in this division, we are commercially bigger than most others, why should be limited to spend the same on wages as Accrington Stanley, we make more money than them. |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:32 - Aug 8 with 5935 views | pointofblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 09:39 - Aug 8 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
I think there is a difference between over spending, and spending within your financial capabilities. And our capabilities with a drastically larger gate to most others in this division, we are commercially bigger than most others, why should be limited to spend the same on wages as Accrington Stanley, we make more money than them. |
And, as said on the Sunderland thread, if the likes of Accrington spent £2.5m on salaries then they would soon go bankrupt as it would be unsustainable to them, so it isn’t stopping unscrupulous people coming in and burying (Bury-ing?) a club. An income cap would have done this but this doesn’t. |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 14:58 - Aug 8 with 5623 views | ElephantintheRoom |
democracy is a terrible thing when you dont agree with the result. | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 21:42 - Aug 8 with 5320 views | TieDyedIn95 |
Yeah I agree. Screw the 17 - how they are allowed to vote on what our business spends is a joke, it's a bit like Tesco telling Aldi what to pay people. Only in football...
Boycott them. |  |
| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81 | | Poll: | Would you attend a socially distanced training ground protest? |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 21:43 - Aug 8 with 5314 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 14:58 - Aug 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
democracy is a terrible thing when you dont agree with the result. |
Since when has free market capitalism been democratic? | |
| Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81 | | Poll: | Would you attend a socially distanced training ground protest? |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 09:21 - Aug 9 with 4975 views | pointofblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 09:27 - Aug 8 by Pinewoodblue |
Even when fans are allowed to attend games it seems unlikely that there will be away fans in the ground.
To get the salary cap through they first had to change the rule that required 75% of clubs to agree.
Anyone know if Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich etc voted against the change. It was obvious why the rule change was proposed. |
16 voted for
7 voted against - believed to be Charlton, Doncaster, Hull, Ipswich, Oxford, Portsmouth and Sunderland
1 abstained
ETA - Corrected [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 9:57]
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:03 - Aug 9 with 4886 views | J2BLUE |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 09:21 - Aug 9 by pointofblue |
16 voted for
7 voted against - believed to be Charlton, Doncaster, Hull, Ipswich, Oxford, Portsmouth and Sunderland
1 abstained
ETA - Corrected [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 9:57]
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Wigan instead of Doncaster? | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:05 - Aug 9 with 4881 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 14:58 - Aug 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
democracy is a terrible thing when you dont agree with the result. |
I wouldn't call the vote that the EFL set up on this democracy..... |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:08 - Aug 9 with 4865 views | pointofblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:03 - Aug 9 by J2BLUE |
Wigan instead of Doncaster? |
I thought so originally but apparently not - can only assume Wigan were the abstainers? Perhaps their administrators didn’t think they could vote against something which looked financially prudent. Am looking through some club forums so will post if something indicates differently. | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:15 - Aug 9 with 4835 views | Swansea_Blue |
Don’t think it’s a particularly good idea. We would have been on the other end of this stick only a couple of years ago. Also undermines the idea of the football community. |  |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:32 - Aug 9 with 4791 views | bournemouthblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 08:39 - Aug 8 by Guthrum |
It doesn't 'drive us down to the bottom rung', it merely puts everyone on the same rung financially (except those unable to even keep up with salary cap levels). If all the good players get skimmed off*, that affects all clubs in L1. Tho the Champ will, itself, have limits on how many they can afford to sign.
As Badger says, we will have to become better at the other parts of creating a successful football team. In some of which we will still have a head start, such as the Academy, the infrastructure and the history/reputation.
It's not as if ITFC has heretofore been using its "financial clout" to dominate the division, anyway.
* Doubt that will become more likely than it already was. |
I'm not saying you can't be better at all the other things
But a cap which is about 1/3 of our current budget and just under a tenth of the League above is going to have some unintended consequences I fear
Are clubs going to get around it by paying massive signing on fees or will that count towards wages as well?
Are there caps below League Two out of interest? | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:36 - Aug 9 with 4780 views | gordon |
We might not like it but clubs like us, that have been run at a significant loss for years with money pumped in by an owner who has no clue what he's doing are precisely why football is in such a mess.
We obviously haven't benefited much from the all the money Evans has blown on dreadful managers and players over the years but that isn't anyone else's fault. We might not be in the same league as some other clubs in terms of throwing money at it, but we still do it. Taking our frustration out on Rochdale or Shrewsbury or whatever because we've been so badly run over the years would be embarrassing.
It's absolutely right that a salary cap is introduced, and we absolutely aren't being screwed over by anyone - we've been screwing over the few clubs left that are still run as an actual proper business - we've just been utterly incompetent at it. |  | | |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:39 - Aug 9 with 4768 views | J2BLUE |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:36 - Aug 9 by gordon |
We might not like it but clubs like us, that have been run at a significant loss for years with money pumped in by an owner who has no clue what he's doing are precisely why football is in such a mess.
We obviously haven't benefited much from the all the money Evans has blown on dreadful managers and players over the years but that isn't anyone else's fault. We might not be in the same league as some other clubs in terms of throwing money at it, but we still do it. Taking our frustration out on Rochdale or Shrewsbury or whatever because we've been so badly run over the years would be embarrassing.
It's absolutely right that a salary cap is introduced, and we absolutely aren't being screwed over by anyone - we've been screwing over the few clubs left that are still run as an actual proper business - we've just been utterly incompetent at it. |
We have been screwed. A salary cap based on turnover would have been fine. | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:42 - Aug 9 with 4756 views | bournemouthblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 14:58 - Aug 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
democracy is a terrible thing when you dont agree with the result. |
Since when has the UK been democratic
We have a the Whip System and a House of Lords? We have just rejected the EU despite actually having proportional representation in EU elections
We have a very right wing media, mainly run by Billionaire Press Barons and as a result, we are only considered to have the 40th freest media in the World
This is the UK supposedly great but massively flawed, sadly [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 10:44]
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:49 - Aug 9 with 4731 views | gordon |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:39 - Aug 9 by J2BLUE |
We have been screwed. A salary cap based on turnover would have been fine. |
There was already a salary cap based on turnover - but (I think, happy to be corrected) clubs with benefactors argued that donations to the club from owners should be treated as 'turnover', making the salary cap effectively meaningless. [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 10:49]
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:57 - Aug 9 with 4701 views | pointofblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:49 - Aug 9 by gordon |
There was already a salary cap based on turnover - but (I think, happy to be corrected) clubs with benefactors argued that donations to the club from owners should be treated as 'turnover', making the salary cap effectively meaningless. [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 10:49]
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It would have made more sense to remove this loophole than set an arbitrary limit. | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 11:07 - Aug 9 with 4664 views | gordon |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 10:57 - Aug 9 by pointofblue |
It would have made more sense to remove this loophole than set an arbitrary limit. |
That's fair enough, but I think because of COVID it would be unworkable for the next year or two.
I'm just making the point that we most definitely cannot take any high moral ground here - our owner encapsulates everything that's gone wrong with football over the last twenty years or so.
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 11:15 - Aug 9 with 4615 views | pointofblue |
| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 11:07 - Aug 9 by gordon |
That's fair enough, but I think because of COVID it would be unworkable for the next year or two.
I'm just making the point that we most definitely cannot take any high moral ground here - our owner encapsulates everything that's gone wrong with football over the last twenty years or so.
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Possibly. Though if it wasn’t for the rich benefactors we’d probably see Manchester United win the league over and over to the point people’s love of the sport would dry up to a greater level than it is now. Even Leicester’s success was built on financial support above and beyond income. The Premier League would basically make the Bundesliga look competitive. | |
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| Boycott the 17 - Sunderland forum on 08:00 - Aug 10 with 4231 views | ArnieM |
Question:
Whilst I would fully support the suggested boycott, HOW can this possibly work when away fans are likely to be banned due to CoVid anyway ? |  |
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