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If you don't want to have. just don't have it. And don't go anywhere near anyone vulnerable.
Just ENOUGH with the tinfoil hatting. What with your defending Jeremy Corbyn's dodgy racist mates and your selfishness regarding other people's welfare, you'r starting to sound like a leftwing P*z.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
We are knocking on that door. My fear is also very real around the potential harvesting and formulation of a biometric database by a foreign company in the private sector (see Iceland).
Whilst the concept of Track and Trace is perfect, I have no desire to participate in the scheme and have permanently self isolated this year since about midway through the spring lockdown.
The people in charge have no clue, and I am not letting them gamble with my information.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:01 - Nov 30 by BlueBadger
If you don't want to have. just don't have it. And don't go anywhere near anyone vulnerable.
Just ENOUGH with the tinfoil hatting. What with your defending Jeremy Corbyn's dodgy racist mates and your selfishness regarding other people's welfare, you'r starting to sound like a leftwing P*z.
Whoaaa!!.....any more hoops you want to jump through?
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:02 - Nov 30 by wkj
We are knocking on that door. My fear is also very real around the potential harvesting and formulation of a biometric database by a foreign company in the private sector (see Iceland).
Whilst the concept of Track and Trace is perfect, I have no desire to participate in the scheme and have permanently self isolated this year since about midway through the spring lockdown.
The people in charge have no clue, and I am not letting them gamble with my information.
This is a cogent argument and I respect it, hence the uppie. But we have to set it against the success of the Vietnamese in almost suppressing Covid-19 with their near one hundred percent voluntary adherence to track and trace.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:03 - Nov 30 by bluelagos
You responding to a particular story Bankster or just worried about where it might lead?
Just a passing thought brought on by the increase in you can't do a, b, c, d......without proving you have had the vaccine. When did a government last fail to use a crisis to bring in more control! Only this time they will be able to call on Badger and co to fully back them if his post is anything to go by.
[Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:50]
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:09 - Nov 30 by J2BLUE
Why would proof need an ID card?
There are many other ways around it.
Just don't have it if you don't want it.
The answer surely is, it doesn't.
I think Bankster's concern would be if ministers went down the route of trying to introduce a standard card with your ID (and status) on it, then it would become a defacto ID card.
Don't forget previous tory governments have flirted with the idea, indeed Thatcher's government legislated to bring in ID cards for football fans.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:07 - Nov 30 by WeWereZombies
This is a cogent argument and I respect it, hence the uppie. But we have to set it against the success of the Vietnamese in almost suppressing Covid-19 with their near one hundred percent voluntary adherence to track and trace.
They have done very well indeed - that said, we're being run by a government that would be very happy to manipulate it after all is said and done.
I do respect the fact that people like myself may be seen as reckless and taking risks, though i literally do not leave home any more or answer my door for direct conversations with people/food delivery and haven't since finishing up with my job.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:10 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave
Just a passing thought brought on by the increase in you can't do a, b, c, d......without proving you have had the vaccine. When did a government last fail to use a crisis to bring in more control! Only this time they will be able to call on Badger and co to fully back them if his post is anything to go by.
[Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:50]
There is clearly a danger of ID cards by the back door, can't pretend there isn't.
That said the Tory libertarians would be unlikely to sign up to one, and no way labour would, so think the risk is fairly low myself.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:12 - Nov 30 by bluelagos
The answer surely is, it doesn't.
I think Bankster's concern would be if ministers went down the route of trying to introduce a standard card with your ID (and status) on it, then it would become a defacto ID card.
Don't forget previous tory governments have flirted with the idea, indeed Thatcher's government legislated to bring in ID cards for football fans.
The government want people to have the vaccine. They won't give any further ammo to the conspiracy nutters.
I think someone is just trying to justify a decision it seems they've already made. Each to their own, he doesn't owe us an explanation.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:09 - Nov 30 by J2BLUE
Why would proof need an ID card?
There are many other ways around it.
Just don't have it if you don't want it.
They wouldn't but I can see one quite easily leading to the other. It can hardly be anonymous can it and is sure to be on a data base somewhere. I am fairly sure that it was an exchange with you a few weeks back when I said I am currently more likely than not not take the vaccine but don't let that stop you from adding 2 and 2 to get 5 Any excuse...
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
What are your specific issues with a national ID card?
It's hardly an outlier, lots of countries have them, Germany and France two of the closest examples.
I think Badgers response is because you are slowly but surely drifting into conspiracy territory with each post. Perhaps it's not intentional but it's the way it comes across and I believe the way it reads to many posters.
SB
[Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:19]
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
1
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:29 - Nov 30 with 975 views
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:18 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue
What are your specific issues with a national ID card?
It's hardly an outlier, lots of countries have them, Germany and France two of the closest examples.
I think Badgers response is because you are slowly but surely drifting into conspiracy territory with each post. Perhaps it's not intentional but it's the way it comes across and I believe the way it reads to many posters.
SB
[Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:19]
My issue isn't with the national ID card, but rather what they do with it.
The government* has already helped itself to data sold by credit reference agencies to provide targeted political advertising, so there is no doubt they would find a way to capitalise off of the ID card in some way shape or form.
Another fear is that the information then becomes a tangible asset for the private sector.
Granted, they could do this with the voting register, NHS database, DVLA records (the list goes on) but the national ID card would be purely to their benefit on a larger scale with the common man getting very isolated and infrequent benefits.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:18 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue
What are your specific issues with a national ID card?
It's hardly an outlier, lots of countries have them, Germany and France two of the closest examples.
I think Badgers response is because you are slowly but surely drifting into conspiracy territory with each post. Perhaps it's not intentional but it's the way it comes across and I believe the way it reads to many posters.
SB
[Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:19]
Here's a crazy thought for you...let's take a random country and call it'The Land of the Free' and they have an ID card introduced for all sorts of cuddly nice beneficial reasons but one day they vote in a racist sociopathic leader backed by mentalist armed militias who now have access to all they could possibly want to know about everybody! Nah that sh1t could never happen.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:29 - Nov 30 by Keno
You already have at least 2 forms of national ID
So there should be no need for another one.
If we decide to have ways of "encouraging" people to vaccinate (E.G. You need proof to get on a plane) then there should be no need to set up anything more than a booklet record.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:30 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave
Here's a crazy thought for you...let's take a random country and call it'The Land of the Free' and they have an ID card introduced for all sorts of cuddly nice beneficial reasons but one day they vote in a racist sociopathic leader backed by mentalist armed militias who now have access to all they could possibly want to know about everybody! Nah that sh1t could never happen.
It's not a good argument though is it?
It's based entirely on an event that might not happen and even if it did, such a government would force and ID card on you anyway.
Then on the other hand we have a number of European neighbours who already have ID cards and you already have plenty of national ID by which any government could trace you.
For the record, I've not stated there should be a national ID card (seems overkill given we have electronic passports) but to say having a vaccination record will lead to one which is then abused isn't supported by evidence at the moment.
SB
[Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:34]
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
0
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:36 - Nov 30 with 935 views
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:30 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave
Here's a crazy thought for you...let's take a random country and call it'The Land of the Free' and they have an ID card introduced for all sorts of cuddly nice beneficial reasons but one day they vote in a racist sociopathic leader backed by mentalist armed militias who now have access to all they could possibly want to know about everybody! Nah that sh1t could never happen.
You think that's bad? You should see what they do in "The home of the brave".
They hold elections for fun, but at the end of the day the government comes out an says "just kidding guys, we prefer elections held in the court". Imagine if they had a centralised ID card system though, they wouldn't need courts at all and just created "No Voter Zones" where your geolocation dictates your right to vote.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:29 - Nov 30 by wkj
My issue isn't with the national ID card, but rather what they do with it.
The government* has already helped itself to data sold by credit reference agencies to provide targeted political advertising, so there is no doubt they would find a way to capitalise off of the ID card in some way shape or form.
Another fear is that the information then becomes a tangible asset for the private sector.
Granted, they could do this with the voting register, NHS database, DVLA records (the list goes on) but the national ID card would be purely to their benefit on a larger scale with the common man getting very isolated and infrequent benefits.
I don't think the data volunteered by people on FB is really comparable. An ID card really is a centralised place to put information the government already has on you. Do other countries have the issues you are highlighting?
Most peoples details are already in the private sector, every time one books a flight the passport information is entered into their system as will be the C19 vaccination record when the time comes.
As I said to DBS, I'm not saying we should have one, just it doesn't seem to be the big deal many think it is and many other countries comparable to the UK have them.
SB
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Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:38 - Nov 30 with 929 views
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:36 - Nov 30 by wkj
You think that's bad? You should see what they do in "The home of the brave".
They hold elections for fun, but at the end of the day the government comes out an says "just kidding guys, we prefer elections held in the court". Imagine if they had a centralised ID card system though, they wouldn't need courts at all and just created "No Voter Zones" where your geolocation dictates your right to vote.
Or alternatively they could instantly prove who actually voted and Trump's nonsense about illegal votes would have been immediately shutdown on the first night.
SB
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Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:42 - Nov 30 with 913 views
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:37 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue
I don't think the data volunteered by people on FB is really comparable. An ID card really is a centralised place to put information the government already has on you. Do other countries have the issues you are highlighting?
Most peoples details are already in the private sector, every time one books a flight the passport information is entered into their system as will be the C19 vaccination record when the time comes.
As I said to DBS, I'm not saying we should have one, just it doesn't seem to be the big deal many think it is and many other countries comparable to the UK have them.
SB
I am under doubt what I fear is something that is already in place. However, my stance is reluctance to make it any easier for them on a system that would be very one sided in terms of who benefits.
We live in a political system that thrives on "Act now, apologise later (if we're caught)" The added step to this cycle is the inevitable "Whoops, too late to go back now" part.
To be clear, this is not an attack on the current government in power, the other parties have been just as culpable.
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:42 - Nov 30 by wkj
I am under doubt what I fear is something that is already in place. However, my stance is reluctance to make it any easier for them on a system that would be very one sided in terms of who benefits.
We live in a political system that thrives on "Act now, apologise later (if we're caught)" The added step to this cycle is the inevitable "Whoops, too late to go back now" part.
To be clear, this is not an attack on the current government in power, the other parties have been just as culpable.
How is it one sided on who benefits?
Having a standardised way to identify someone and to collate records could have benefits for lots of things.
Just seems to me that the OP feeds into the conspiratorial narrative that C19 is in some form "designed" to force these things on us. That is incredibly unhelpful in my opinion. As far as I am aware nobody in government has mentioned an ID card around vaccinations so putting it out there feeds the conspiracy narrative.
SB
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Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:49 - Nov 30 with 898 views
Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:33 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue
It's not a good argument though is it?
It's based entirely on an event that might not happen and even if it did, such a government would force and ID card on you anyway.
Then on the other hand we have a number of European neighbours who already have ID cards and you already have plenty of national ID by which any government could trace you.
For the record, I've not stated there should be a national ID card (seems overkill given we have electronic passports) but to say having a vaccination record will lead to one which is then abused isn't supported by evidence at the moment.
SB
[Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:34]
Recent observations of an increasing drift to the authoritarian right and/or all knowing data (corporate) state suggests it is a pretty good argument but you are welcome to your opinion.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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