| Brexit 10:36 - Dec 16 with 4805 views | clive_baker |
Hopefully over the coming days and weeks the political posturing subsides and makes way for a softer Brexit, whereby a free trade agreement remains with the EU, rather than reverting to WTO terms, and our ability to diverge is moderated to some degree or pegged to EU terms, which they're seemingly insistent on.
Once the dust settles on Brexit and it becomes chip paper, how likely do we think it is that a party will take a strong re-join position? And will there be appetite for it? As a remainer myself, we lost, and I'm over it. I'm not sure I've got the mental horsepower for years more of Brexit dominating the media and causing further division in this country. A referendum on re-joining followed by 4.5 years of arguing about that feels like a toxic recipe for disaster. I do believe the social, sentimental, economic and logistical practicalities and pain will continue to be felt for some time though.
However, how likely do we think it is that it can & will finally be put to bed as a political issue? |  |
| |  |
| Brexit on 10:39 - Dec 16 with 2805 views | lowhouseblue |
rejoining will include the euro. it's then a whole different ball game. not a symmetrical process at all. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Brexit on 10:40 - Dec 16 with 2805 views | factual_blue |
Will it be put to bed? No. Not as long as the Village Green Tendency in the tory party and the daily mail/express believe that, essentially, God is an Englishman. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 10:45 - Dec 16 with 2788 views | Herbivore |
Given the generational divide on Brexit I think it's inevitable that there will be a groundswell to rejoin. The vast majority of younger people didn't want to leave, Brexit was an old man's game. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 10:46 - Dec 16 with 2781 views | snudge27 |
| Brexit on 10:39 - Dec 16 by lowhouseblue |
rejoining will include the euro. it's then a whole different ball game. not a symmetrical process at all. |
Precisely.
If there's a decision to rejoin there'll be no negotiation. The EU will have all the cards and will be able to say 'if you want to join our club, these are the terms. Take them or leave them.". |  |
| |
| Brexit on 10:47 - Dec 16 with 2774 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brexit on 10:46 - Dec 16 by snudge27 |
Precisely.
If there's a decision to rejoin there'll be no negotiation. The EU will have all the cards and will be able to say 'if you want to join our club, these are the terms. Take them or leave them.". |
we threw away the best deal going. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Brexit on 10:49 - Dec 16 with 2777 views | Steve_M |
"I'm not sure I've got the mental horsepower for years more of Brexit dominating the media and causing further division in this country."
I think this is inevitable even without a widespread movement to rejoin the EU for the reasons you allude to in your first paragraph: gravity matters in trade and the UK will have to shadow the EU's regulatory systems to allow businesses access to the single market, it's just a question of to what degree.
Switzerland is an instructive example to anyone who hopes that the issue of the UK's relationship with the EU might just go away. It's won't it's a process and whatever policy choices the EU makes will have an impact on the UK, probably a smaller one than if we were still a member but one where we will have given up our ability to have a say in it.
I can't see any formal effort to rejoin the EU for at least 10 years but an EFTA or Norway-type relationship is more likely - it's where Theresa May should have been aiming for and something many who voted leave wanted. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 10:54 - Dec 16 with 2754 views | giant_stow |
| Brexit on 10:39 - Dec 16 by lowhouseblue |
rejoining will include the euro. it's then a whole different ball game. not a symmetrical process at all. |
My opinion's worth plop, but I'd be amazed if any politician goes near a campaign to re-join. That's both because it'll be toxic here, but also because the EU will probably have to either integrate further or get split. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 11:04 - Dec 16 with 2741 views | jaykay |
| Brexit on 10:45 - Dec 16 by Herbivore |
Given the generational divide on Brexit I think it's inevitable that there will be a groundswell to rejoin. The vast majority of younger people didn't want to leave, Brexit was an old man's game. |
at 71 i voted twice to be in the e.u. you are right the 18 -24 year olds majority did vote remain. but only64% of the young voted and 30 % voted leave. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Brexit on 11:05 - Dec 16 with 2731 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit on 11:04 - Dec 16 by jaykay |
at 71 i voted twice to be in the e.u. you are right the 18 -24 year olds majority did vote remain. but only64% of the young voted and 30 % voted leave. |
So 70% voted remain then, which is a massive majority. | |
| |
| Brexit on 11:12 - Dec 16 with 2719 views | noggin |
| Brexit on 10:49 - Dec 16 by Steve_M |
"I'm not sure I've got the mental horsepower for years more of Brexit dominating the media and causing further division in this country."
I think this is inevitable even without a widespread movement to rejoin the EU for the reasons you allude to in your first paragraph: gravity matters in trade and the UK will have to shadow the EU's regulatory systems to allow businesses access to the single market, it's just a question of to what degree.
Switzerland is an instructive example to anyone who hopes that the issue of the UK's relationship with the EU might just go away. It's won't it's a process and whatever policy choices the EU makes will have an impact on the UK, probably a smaller one than if we were still a member but one where we will have given up our ability to have a say in it.
I can't see any formal effort to rejoin the EU for at least 10 years but an EFTA or Norway-type relationship is more likely - it's where Theresa May should have been aiming for and something many who voted leave wanted. |
I don't know about that. I believe Norway pays more per capita to the EU than UK and has to abide by most of the rules. A free trade agreement is clearly worth the money but I thought leave meant leave. for the Brexit voters. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 11:14 - Dec 16 with 2707 views | Fixed_It |
| Brexit on 10:45 - Dec 16 by Herbivore |
Given the generational divide on Brexit I think it's inevitable that there will be a groundswell to rejoin. The vast majority of younger people didn't want to leave, Brexit was an old man's game. |
I would fully expect us, if we were to eventually return into the fold, to be part of the Eurozone. We won't get the 'preferential' terms that we have (had) now. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 11:15 - Dec 16 with 2699 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit on 11:14 - Dec 16 by Fixed_It |
I would fully expect us, if we were to eventually return into the fold, to be part of the Eurozone. We won't get the 'preferential' terms that we have (had) now. |
We'll definitely have to adopt the Euro, but I think my generation and the generation below would be much more willing to accept that anyway. I don't feel any special attachment to a currency. | |
| |
| Brexit on 11:20 - Dec 16 with 2691 views | Steve_M |
| Brexit on 11:12 - Dec 16 by noggin |
I don't know about that. I believe Norway pays more per capita to the EU than UK and has to abide by most of the rules. A free trade agreement is clearly worth the money but I thought leave meant leave. for the Brexit voters. |
Norway's position is manifestly worse than the one the UK gave up but greatly better than the one the UK is likely to be in, err, two weeks time.
Leave only won the referendum because it was able to encompass those in favour of EFTA as well as those who wanted nothing contaminated by any hint of Europe, economic protectionists and ultra-freemarketers. Precisely because it could mean whatever anyone wanted it to mean it was far easier to campaign to leave than to make hard choices about which costs were worth taking - which is why the UK is floundering around 4.5 years on. | |
| |
| Brexit on 11:29 - Dec 16 with 2672 views | GavTWTD |
| Brexit on 10:46 - Dec 16 by snudge27 |
Precisely.
If there's a decision to rejoin there'll be no negotiation. The EU will have all the cards and will be able to say 'if you want to join our club, these are the terms. Take them or leave them.". |
At least we'll know exactly what we're voting for. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 11:31 - Dec 16 with 2667 views | Churchman |
| Brexit on 10:49 - Dec 16 by Steve_M |
"I'm not sure I've got the mental horsepower for years more of Brexit dominating the media and causing further division in this country."
I think this is inevitable even without a widespread movement to rejoin the EU for the reasons you allude to in your first paragraph: gravity matters in trade and the UK will have to shadow the EU's regulatory systems to allow businesses access to the single market, it's just a question of to what degree.
Switzerland is an instructive example to anyone who hopes that the issue of the UK's relationship with the EU might just go away. It's won't it's a process and whatever policy choices the EU makes will have an impact on the UK, probably a smaller one than if we were still a member but one where we will have given up our ability to have a say in it.
I can't see any formal effort to rejoin the EU for at least 10 years but an EFTA or Norway-type relationship is more likely - it's where Theresa May should have been aiming for and something many who voted leave wanted. |
I would be surprised if any party went near rejoining the EU. Political suicide not helped by the EUs attitude towards the U.K. before the Brexit vote and since. Obviously, as a single party state once they’ve left the union, Scotland will try and if that’s what they want good luck to them. I think the England will continue to move away from the EU in trade terms. It’s been doing so since long before Brexit anyway. Will we make a success of it? It might in the long term if it replaces the clowns in charge with some sane people, but that’s not likely and in any case.
Inevitably given geography there will be a relationship with Europe, but I think it’ll be very different to how anyone predicts, not least because the EU itself will have to significantly change. |  | | |
| Brexit on 11:59 - Dec 16 with 2615 views | jaykay |
| Brexit on 11:05 - Dec 16 by Herbivore |
So 70% voted remain then, which is a massive majority. |
so 36% lazy sods didn't vote so its 66% helped the leave campaign | |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
| |
| Brexit on 12:53 - Dec 16 with 2542 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Brexit on 11:15 - Dec 16 by Herbivore |
We'll definitely have to adopt the Euro, but I think my generation and the generation below would be much more willing to accept that anyway. I don't feel any special attachment to a currency. |
If you have a strong, balanced, economy the euro is good for you buy su much so if your ecenimy is weak.
Take Germany for example. If Germany still had its own currency its value against other currencies would be a lot higher than the Euro. The weakness of the euro zone gives Germany a significant advantage. Which would be lost if the Deutschmark were to return. |  |
| |
| Brexit on 12:55 - Dec 16 with 2521 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit on 11:59 - Dec 16 by jaykay |
so 36% lazy sods didn't vote so its 66% helped the leave campaign |
That's some interesting maths. | |
| |
| Brexit on 13:01 - Dec 16 with 2505 views | TJS |
| Brexit on 12:53 - Dec 16 by Pinewoodblue |
If you have a strong, balanced, economy the euro is good for you buy su much so if your ecenimy is weak.
Take Germany for example. If Germany still had its own currency its value against other currencies would be a lot higher than the Euro. The weakness of the euro zone gives Germany a significant advantage. Which would be lost if the Deutschmark were to return. |
Spot on - shackling southern Europe to an overvalued currency has been great for German manufacturing.
As for us having to adopt the euro if we ever wanted to rejoin - no chance.
Given the EU rips up their rules when they need to and provided we were re-entering as a net contributor (as before) I hardly think they would have any problem with us keeping the pound. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 13:03]
|  | | |
| Brexit on 13:10 - Dec 16 with 2477 views | Moriarty |
| Brexit on 13:01 - Dec 16 by TJS |
Spot on - shackling southern Europe to an overvalued currency has been great for German manufacturing.
As for us having to adopt the euro if we ever wanted to rejoin - no chance.
Given the EU rips up their rules when they need to and provided we were re-entering as a net contributor (as before) I hardly think they would have any problem with us keeping the pound. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 13:03]
|
“The EU rips up their rules when they need to”.
It was Boris and the U.K. who threatened to break international law during the negotiations. Rabb got sent home from the US with his tail between his legs? Biden is Irish? Any of that ring a bell? [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 13:10]
|  |
| |
| Brexit on 13:10 - Dec 16 with 2475 views | MattinLondon |
| Brexit on 13:01 - Dec 16 by TJS |
Spot on - shackling southern Europe to an overvalued currency has been great for German manufacturing.
As for us having to adopt the euro if we ever wanted to rejoin - no chance.
Given the EU rips up their rules when they need to and provided we were re-entering as a net contributor (as before) I hardly think they would have any problem with us keeping the pound. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 13:03]
|
Is this the same chain of thought which dictated that the EU will dilute the rules of the single market to accommodate the UK?
If the UK were to rejoin the EU then it’ll have to, at some point, adopt the Euro. |  | | |
| Brexit on 13:14 - Dec 16 with 2466 views | Basuco |
| Brexit on 11:31 - Dec 16 by Churchman |
I would be surprised if any party went near rejoining the EU. Political suicide not helped by the EUs attitude towards the U.K. before the Brexit vote and since. Obviously, as a single party state once they’ve left the union, Scotland will try and if that’s what they want good luck to them. I think the England will continue to move away from the EU in trade terms. It’s been doing so since long before Brexit anyway. Will we make a success of it? It might in the long term if it replaces the clowns in charge with some sane people, but that’s not likely and in any case.
Inevitably given geography there will be a relationship with Europe, but I think it’ll be very different to how anyone predicts, not least because the EU itself will have to significantly change. |
The UK not joining the single currency and open borders was a huge mistake, we never completely bought into the European ideal as we should have done. |  | | |
| Brexit on 13:20 - Dec 16 with 2446 views | MattinLondon |
| Brexit on 13:14 - Dec 16 by Basuco |
The UK not joining the single currency and open borders was a huge mistake, we never completely bought into the European ideal as we should have done. |
But that would mean a vast proportion of the population abandoning their ‘We won the war’ mentality. A step too far for many who believed that the EU would implode without the UK. | | | |
| Brexit on 13:23 - Dec 16 with 2435 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Brexit on 13:10 - Dec 16 by MattinLondon |
Is this the same chain of thought which dictated that the EU will dilute the rules of the single market to accommodate the UK?
If the UK were to rejoin the EU then it’ll have to, at some point, adopt the Euro. |
There wouldn’t be a single market if it wasn’t for the UK, more specifically Maggie Thatcher. You may loath her but she was the architect of the single market.
Trouble is the original idea was to remove regulation, it wasn’t intended to be protectionist. | |
| |
| Brexit on 13:26 - Dec 16 with 2426 views | Moriarty |
| Brexit on 13:20 - Dec 16 by MattinLondon |
But that would mean a vast proportion of the population abandoning their ‘We won the war’ mentality. A step too far for many who believed that the EU would implode without the UK. |
I’ve met a fair share of educated English people who actually think that Britain won the war. It’s as if the role of leading nations, such as the US didn’t really matter and that the war on the Eastern Front isn’t taught in all English schools. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
