| Vaccination Hesitancy 16:28 - May 20 with 3031 views | SpruceMoose |
Disclaimer... It would be nice if we could avoid descending into any squabbles on here, but I was reading an article in the NYT this morning regarding NYC's vaccination campaign and attempts to reach members of the public who have not taken up the offer of vaccination yet - and their reason why.
I personally don't know anyone who has not been vaccinated when eligible, and personally find some of the reasons I've heard for not being vaccinated utterly bizarre. Does anyone here know anyone hesitant, or who is outright refusing, to be vaccinated? Have you spoken to them about why? I'm just curious as to what the main concerns are out there (and whether they are different in the UK to over here).
I'll whack the article link at the bottom (it's paywalled but I think you can get round that in incognito) but here are some choice quotations:
“We didn’t leave this apartment for two and a half months,” Ms. Paulino, 30, explained, saying her family had been extra-cautious. Still, she explained, they were unlikely to get vaccinated. It was up to God whether or not she got Covid-19, she said, and whether or not she died.
“My mom said, ‘They’re putting something in the vaccine to kill people,’” Mr. Ramos recalled.
“People don’t want Moderna because they say you’re going to need a booster shot,” said Manny Diaz, an unvaccinated hotel worker, who lives in the North Bronx. He said he was willing to get the Pfizer vaccine – whose plan for a booster shot seems to have received less attention – but didn’t know where to get it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/nyregion/vaccine-hesitancy-outreach.html
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:37 - May 20 with 2285 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
I have a few mates that were initially reluctant - all thinking that the side effects were worse than catching COVID.
However, as they've become eligible, all have gone on to have the vaccine anyway. Also there was concern about AZ/clots, so I think the switch to Pfizer/Moderna for this age group (u40) has also encouraged people to take it up.
Just my personal experience. Had my 1st jab yest! |  | | |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:39 - May 20 with 2274 views | footers |
Not vaccine-related but was chatting to a taxi driver earlier who was telling me people's reasons for not wearing a mask while in his car. One lady was very concerned that it would smudge her make-up.
If that's the level of intelligence we're dealing with when it comes to the nation's health, then I'm really not sure what to say.
Sure she looked lovely though. |  |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:41 - May 20 with 2247 views | bluelagos |
I know 3 refusniks (2 of who have both now been vaccinated).
So first one was scared about whether it was safe. She was worried it was not tested properly and that we were effectively "guinea pigs". She came round due to 2 factors, the fact that all the 50+ people had had it without major issues and the fact that she wants to travel to see her family this summer and figured it would be far harder without a vaccine.
Second one was a bit more difficult, she bought into the anti-vax crap and didn't trust the govt. She has some history with and some borderline mental health issues (paranoia) some of which are diagnosed, some not. She has got vaccinated now and when I asked why she said she wanted to get out and about. She had literally been out of the house 3 times in a year (through fear) and recognised she couldn't live that way indefinitely.
The other one is hopeless. An accountant, educated and gobbing off about the vaccine having mercury in it. For a supposedly intelligent man he can be an absolute moron. Not a friend and am avoiding him at the moment as I would end up having a proper row with him. Not just over CV - he's a bell end anyway. [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:44]
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:42 - May 20 with 2236 views | brazil1982 |
One of my colleagues isn't having it (she's 42).
"They* don't know much about the disease, and I don't know what's been put in the vaccine"
*Never quite sure who "they" are. I have tried speaking rationally to her but she's having none of it. Return to the office is going to be interesting. |  | | |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:43 - May 20 with 2229 views | RadioOrwell |
What's interesting is that in the rest of their normal 'medical' life - doctors, dentists, whatever - they'll take advice without question.
"You've got cancer and you need to do this ..."
"OK"
"I need to remove a tooth..."
"OK"
But now, because someone who met someone's Aunty who was on facebook and read something stupid about Covid ... [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:46]
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:44 - May 20 with 2210 views | BlueBadger |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:43 - May 20 by RadioOrwell |
What's interesting is that in the rest of their normal 'medical' life - doctors, dentists, whatever - they'll take advice without question.
"You've got cancer and you need to do this ..."
"OK"
"I need to remove a tooth..."
"OK"
But now, because someone who met someone's Aunty who was on facebook and read something stupid about Covid ... [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:46]
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You woukd be surprised and slightly depressed by the number in people in hospital who are basically there because they won't listen to doctors. |  |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:47 - May 20 with 2170 views | hype313 |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:42 - May 20 by brazil1982 |
One of my colleagues isn't having it (she's 42).
"They* don't know much about the disease, and I don't know what's been put in the vaccine"
*Never quite sure who "they" are. I have tried speaking rationally to her but she's having none of it. Return to the office is going to be interesting. |
Most of the hesitancy I see is full blown Anti Vaxx conspiracy, great reset, these vaccines are still in trial stages until 2023 etc.. |  |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:47 - May 20 with 2159 views | RadioOrwell |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:44 - May 20 by BlueBadger |
You woukd be surprised and slightly depressed by the number in people in hospital who are basically there because they won't listen to doctors. |
That is a fair point. | | | |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:48 - May 20 with 2149 views | footers |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:43 - May 20 by RadioOrwell |
What's interesting is that in the rest of their normal 'medical' life - doctors, dentists, whatever - they'll take advice without question.
"You've got cancer and you need to do this ..."
"OK"
"I need to remove a tooth..."
"OK"
But now, because someone who met someone's Aunty who was on facebook and read something stupid about Covid ... [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:46]
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I'm not sure if this is a problem that's getting worse but it certainly seems like it. For example, my friend's cat got cancer a couple of years back. The vet had prescribed some drugs and therapy for it (not sure if it included surgery or what have you) but she in all her wisdom decided to ignore all that advice and use CBD oil on it instead.
It died, probably high as a kite and in serious pain, about a month later. | |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:48 - May 20 with 2150 views | SpruceMoose |
Yes, vaccine hesitancy in the Black community is well documented, and is actually based on real experience, not imagined hocus pocus. So I do accept that there's genuine concern there. It's sad that because of the actions of Rich White Folk (yet again) the people who have been among the hardest hit by Covid in the city are often scared to take the final step to protect themselves.
I suppose now that the city is pretty much going to follow CDC guidance and reopen with limited restrictions it raises interesting thoughts. Seemingly, it's being done on an honour system. You can come in and be maskless, but only if you're vaccinated. So... you're vaccinated... right? There's really little imperative to get yourself vaccinated if you don't have to now (other than caring about your own health obvs).
Interestingly, a lot of the local businesses I follow on social media have announced over the last few days that they are resisting CDC guidance for now and sticking with the mask requirement. Do I need to say the comments on those posts have been a horror show?
Interesting times ahead! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:48 - May 20 with 2152 views | Steve_M |
I think the important thing is to see hesitancy as a spectrum of views and not an absolutist position. If people understand that then this thread might stay civil.
It's probably legitimate to wonder why these vaccines have been developed so quickly. The answer to that is obvious to you and me maybe some people need it explained how money has been - rightly - thrown at developing and regulatory approval has been prioritised.
There was an item on Today on R4 a while back about how doctors in Leicester had boosted the uptake by talking to those patients who had not taken up the offer of vaccination. Things like that take time and only capture some people but it's one solution.
The more extreme nonsense about vaccines being deliberately harmful will surely be disproved with time too when hundreds of thousands of people haven't dropped dead.
Ultimately though it takes time, persuasion at many levels - family, friends and colleagues probably being more effective than celebrities on tv, although that helps people too - and a lot of effort. A lot of people have already invested a lot of time in sowing the negative views of vaccines.
It's also worth noting that most people below 50 in the west have seen little evidence of what happened without vaccination, when polio crippled thousands of children annually and TB was a major cause of death. [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:58]
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:50 - May 20 with 2122 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:41 - May 20 by bluelagos |
I know 3 refusniks (2 of who have both now been vaccinated).
So first one was scared about whether it was safe. She was worried it was not tested properly and that we were effectively "guinea pigs". She came round due to 2 factors, the fact that all the 50+ people had had it without major issues and the fact that she wants to travel to see her family this summer and figured it would be far harder without a vaccine.
Second one was a bit more difficult, she bought into the anti-vax crap and didn't trust the govt. She has some history with and some borderline mental health issues (paranoia) some of which are diagnosed, some not. She has got vaccinated now and when I asked why she said she wanted to get out and about. She had literally been out of the house 3 times in a year (through fear) and recognised she couldn't live that way indefinitely.
The other one is hopeless. An accountant, educated and gobbing off about the vaccine having mercury in it. For a supposedly intelligent man he can be an absolute moron. Not a friend and am avoiding him at the moment as I would end up having a proper row with him. Not just over CV - he's a bell end anyway. [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:44]
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That last one... woof! That's a shocker. It's always so weird when otherwise friendly, intelligent, successful people have one tiny area in which they hold some utterly incredible beliefs. It's half fascinating half depressing. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:53 - May 20 with 2103 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:48 - May 20 by Steve_M |
I think the important thing is to see hesitancy as a spectrum of views and not an absolutist position. If people understand that then this thread might stay civil.
It's probably legitimate to wonder why these vaccines have been developed so quickly. The answer to that is obvious to you and me maybe some people need it explained how money has been - rightly - thrown at developing and regulatory approval has been prioritised.
There was an item on Today on R4 a while back about how doctors in Leicester had boosted the uptake by talking to those patients who had not taken up the offer of vaccination. Things like that take time and only capture some people but it's one solution.
The more extreme nonsense about vaccines being deliberately harmful will surely be disproved with time too when hundreds of thousands of people haven't dropped dead.
Ultimately though it takes time, persuasion at many levels - family, friends and colleagues probably being more effective than celebrities on tv, although that helps people too - and a lot of effort. A lot of people have already invested a lot of time in sowing the negative views of vaccines.
It's also worth noting that most people below 50 in the west have seen little evidence of what happened without vaccination, when polio crippled thousands of children annually and TB was a major cause of death. [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:58]
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Excellent points.
I'd add that all the advice I've heard around vaccine hesitancy is that being dismissive / rude towards people's concerns is unlikely to help persuade them to change their minds.
The other issue is easy access. Hence why in places like Bolton, having on the ground "walk in" jabs can increase take up too. Many people are busy and making it as easy as possible to get jabbed has to be a good thing. | |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:56 - May 20 with 2083 views | BlueBadger |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:48 - May 20 by footers |
I'm not sure if this is a problem that's getting worse but it certainly seems like it. For example, my friend's cat got cancer a couple of years back. The vet had prescribed some drugs and therapy for it (not sure if it included surgery or what have you) but she in all her wisdom decided to ignore all that advice and use CBD oil on it instead.
It died, probably high as a kite and in serious pain, about a month later. |
It has its roots in the MMR scandal(the main scandal being the BMJ running Wakefields's obvioulsy masisvely flawed paper in the first place) but it encompasses a whole dickhive of idiocy from media(The Mail all the way down to Private Eye) to Tony Blair's reticence about whether his children were jabbed or not.
I was INCENSED to see a Mail headline wailing about 'refuseniks' who were 'threatening our freedom' the other day, given their shameless championing of Wakefield, even years after he was discredited and struck off. | |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:58 - May 20 with 2064 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:50 - May 20 by SpruceMoose |
That last one... woof! That's a shocker. It's always so weird when otherwise friendly, intelligent, successful people have one tiny area in which they hold some utterly incredible beliefs. It's half fascinating half depressing. |
This guy is a strange one. He is what you might call "old school". He has a number of blind spots (political and social) perhaps best summed up when he left the CoE to join the RC church due to his disgust at the CoE ordaining women.
So he is a traditionalist with views you would expect on social issues. But where he gets the mercury thing from no idea. He also loves the pub so much as I really dislike the idea of CV passports for pubs, the silver lining if it happens is it would make me laugh to know he will be in meltdown over it. | |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:58 - May 20 with 2059 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:48 - May 20 by Steve_M |
I think the important thing is to see hesitancy as a spectrum of views and not an absolutist position. If people understand that then this thread might stay civil.
It's probably legitimate to wonder why these vaccines have been developed so quickly. The answer to that is obvious to you and me maybe some people need it explained how money has been - rightly - thrown at developing and regulatory approval has been prioritised.
There was an item on Today on R4 a while back about how doctors in Leicester had boosted the uptake by talking to those patients who had not taken up the offer of vaccination. Things like that take time and only capture some people but it's one solution.
The more extreme nonsense about vaccines being deliberately harmful will surely be disproved with time too when hundreds of thousands of people haven't dropped dead.
Ultimately though it takes time, persuasion at many levels - family, friends and colleagues probably being more effective than celebrities on tv, although that helps people too - and a lot of effort. A lot of people have already invested a lot of time in sowing the negative views of vaccines.
It's also worth noting that most people below 50 in the west have seen little evidence of what happened without vaccination, when polio crippled thousands of children annually and TB was a major cause of death. [Post edited 20 May 2021 16:58]
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Excellent points, thanks Steve.
Your point about time and persuasion actually reminds me of conversations that myself and Ms Moose have been having over the last week or so. This CDC guidance that masks are now no longer needed if you're fully vaccinated is great news, but it certainly feels like after a year and a half of wearing them, it will take a while for our comfort levels to catch up with the new reality. In that sense, aren't we just going against expert advice and falling back on gut feeling and personal comfort levels? I'm all about 'follow the science' or have been, but now science is making me feel uncomfortable on a gut level.
Regarding your last point about witnessing the impact of the pandemic, I wonder if the scenes from last year in NY, with mobile morgues, ICUs over run, bodies in bags in the street has played a part in the high vaccination rate in the city. When I talk to family in rural areas back home their experience of the pandemic is markedly different to mine. T
heir experience understandably seems to focus on the loss of personal liberties and isolation, the concept of death seems rather abstract to them. Whereas for me, it's the reverse. My memories will definitely be mainly of the refrigerated lorry parked on our street for months on end and the neighbours we won't see again. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:59 - May 20 with 2057 views | Nazemariner |
I was very hesitant at first because i couldn't really see the need to vaccinate a perfectly healthy individual against an rare virus, that if caught would be unlikely to show any symptoms, let alone cause any threat to my life. I have never had a flu jab for the very same reason. I have subsequently changed my view and have received my first dose. The sole reason being that i want to be able to take my family on holiday, and i do not want to be treated like a leper, and denied the opportunity to the things i enjoy, all for the sake of a somewhat pointless (no pun intended) shot in the arm.
Just being honest. |  | | |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:01 - May 20 with 2039 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:58 - May 20 by SpruceMoose |
Excellent points, thanks Steve.
Your point about time and persuasion actually reminds me of conversations that myself and Ms Moose have been having over the last week or so. This CDC guidance that masks are now no longer needed if you're fully vaccinated is great news, but it certainly feels like after a year and a half of wearing them, it will take a while for our comfort levels to catch up with the new reality. In that sense, aren't we just going against expert advice and falling back on gut feeling and personal comfort levels? I'm all about 'follow the science' or have been, but now science is making me feel uncomfortable on a gut level.
Regarding your last point about witnessing the impact of the pandemic, I wonder if the scenes from last year in NY, with mobile morgues, ICUs over run, bodies in bags in the street has played a part in the high vaccination rate in the city. When I talk to family in rural areas back home their experience of the pandemic is markedly different to mine. T
heir experience understandably seems to focus on the loss of personal liberties and isolation, the concept of death seems rather abstract to them. Whereas for me, it's the reverse. My memories will definitely be mainly of the refrigerated lorry parked on our street for months on end and the neighbours we won't see again. |
Qn for you Spruce - one thing that continues to wind me up - we have test, trace and isolate and everyone knows the isolate is the weak link - majority of people just don't or can't do it.
I read that NYC did quite a bit on it when it was needed - you got any insights? | |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:04 - May 20 with 2020 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:59 - May 20 by Nazemariner |
I was very hesitant at first because i couldn't really see the need to vaccinate a perfectly healthy individual against an rare virus, that if caught would be unlikely to show any symptoms, let alone cause any threat to my life. I have never had a flu jab for the very same reason. I have subsequently changed my view and have received my first dose. The sole reason being that i want to be able to take my family on holiday, and i do not want to be treated like a leper, and denied the opportunity to the things i enjoy, all for the sake of a somewhat pointless (no pun intended) shot in the arm.
Just being honest. |
Appreciate the honesty. Not sure if it helps much but you can also think that you've done your bit to help keep your friends, family and community a little bit safer. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:05 - May 20 with 2012 views | gtsb1966 |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:59 - May 20 by Nazemariner |
I was very hesitant at first because i couldn't really see the need to vaccinate a perfectly healthy individual against an rare virus, that if caught would be unlikely to show any symptoms, let alone cause any threat to my life. I have never had a flu jab for the very same reason. I have subsequently changed my view and have received my first dose. The sole reason being that i want to be able to take my family on holiday, and i do not want to be treated like a leper, and denied the opportunity to the things i enjoy, all for the sake of a somewhat pointless (no pun intended) shot in the arm.
Just being honest. |
100% where I am at too. I didn't want it either but had my second jab this morning. |  | | |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:06 - May 20 with 2008 views | Ryorry |
Sadly, two of my besties, both my are my own age (70-something) cis females. Both are intelligent & well-educated, so to say I was shocked when they told me they'd be refusing is the understatement of the century - my jaw was on floor.
One has always been "alternative" culture & anti-establishment - "I've never had a vaccine in my life & am not starting now" (tho she must have had BCG at school like the rest of us).
Other, ironically, is a bit of a health fanatic, eats incredibly healthily & takes what seems to me are probably excessive doses of vit & min supplements - "my own immune system will be more than enough to see off Covid".
Both think the vaccine was too rapidly approved to be safe. No amount of talking/reasoning with them helped, & I stopped pushing them quite quickly as I felt any more would end the friendship. |  |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:07 - May 20 with 1999 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 16:59 - May 20 by Nazemariner |
I was very hesitant at first because i couldn't really see the need to vaccinate a perfectly healthy individual against an rare virus, that if caught would be unlikely to show any symptoms, let alone cause any threat to my life. I have never had a flu jab for the very same reason. I have subsequently changed my view and have received my first dose. The sole reason being that i want to be able to take my family on holiday, and i do not want to be treated like a leper, and denied the opportunity to the things i enjoy, all for the sake of a somewhat pointless (no pun intended) shot in the arm.
Just being honest. |
An uppie for you honesty. | |
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| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:10 - May 20 with 1986 views | Nazemariner |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:04 - May 20 by SpruceMoose |
Appreciate the honesty. Not sure if it helps much but you can also think that you've done your bit to help keep your friends, family and community a little bit safer. |
I don't proclaim to know huge amounts about either the virus or the vaccine, but isn't it the case that the vaccine neither prevents you getting the virus, nor does it stop transmission of the virus. | | | |
| Vaccination Hesitancy on 17:11 - May 20 with 1975 views | Vic |
My wife had her first AZ jab a couple of months ago but is now very hesitant about having the 2nd. She suffers from serious migraines and the first dose brought one on. With what’s been shown since about blood clots she is now concerned there may yet be an unreported connection between the two. It’s made worse by the fact that she knows someone who recently died as a result of complications with the AZ vaccine.
I don’t have the same concerns, but I understand her hesitancy and said the decision is entirely up to her. |  |
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