| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. 17:05 - Jun 30 with 1713 views | OriginalMarkyP |
Firstly, let me declare an interest.
Dalian was my hero. I was the right age at the right time to totally idolize a footballer the like of which I'd never seen live before. I was there for the boro hat trick. He was the first player to define for me what it meant to say a player was 'electric' not just in speed but the pure energy he transmitted to the crowd. It felt like you literally plugged into him. In his all too short town career it looked to my eyes like he was playing a totally different game to the others around him on the pitch. How delightful it was to watch.
So when he died it felt truely shocking and it still does, how could this effervescent life be snubbed out so early?
I'm not a particularly political person. But I hate injustice. I don't mourn Dalian's death as the death of a black man, i mourn it as a person who mattered greatly to me as i grew up. As I said, a hero. But I fully see how it has an ugly resonance to events like George Floyd and all those others. Its a very uncomfortable reminder that we are far from perfect over here. And the fact that people are still unfairly judged on the colour of their skin is exactly that, a fact. To say otherwise whatever your motivation is pure ignorance or idiocy.
So the comments. The ones people made on the story thread. The ones people wanted taken down. Don't. I say leave them. Don't whitewash the ugliness. I personally would much rather see with my own eyes who is saying them. I'd much rather know what they are.
I believe this board generally has an intelligent level of poster. And i believe that if they see their fellow posters speaking in such away they will judge them appropriately. Hiding intolerance and prejudice only protects it and allows the kind of thing that happened to Dalian Atkinson to happen, because it makes it all to easy for us to think that we, collectively are better than that, when sadly, we are not. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 17:08]
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:18 - Jun 30 with 1355 views | jeera |
The comments on there generally seem to be in dismay at the loss of Dalian's life and anger at the perceived leniency of the sentence given to the police officer.
Not sure what you mean unless I've missed something, which is always possible of course. |  |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:23 - Jun 30 with 1332 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:18 - Jun 30 by jeera |
The comments on there generally seem to be in dismay at the loss of Dalian's life and anger at the perceived leniency of the sentence given to the police officer.
Not sure what you mean unless I've missed something, which is always possible of course. |
There were some posts about 'The Woke brigade' | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:23 - Jun 30 with 1324 views | BlueBadger |
I'm not seeing any, but I rather suspect Phil may have been busy. |  |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:24 - Jun 30 with 1318 views | jeera |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:23 - Jun 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
There were some posts about 'The Woke brigade' |
Oh I see, so those have already been removed then?
Yes, agree with you there that those maybe should have been left on show.
What's wrong with some people? | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:24 - Jun 30 with 1318 views | BlueBadger |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:23 - Jun 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
There were some posts about 'The Woke brigade' |
Look, it's been well established by our leading thinkers here that objecting to bigotry, corruption, criminality and incompetences is bullying of the worst kind. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 4:32]
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:25 - Jun 30 with 1320 views | PhilTWTD |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:23 - Jun 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
There were some posts about 'The Woke brigade' |
I got rid of two. One which was telling someone to F-off, which was the woke brigade one, and another which made reference to the F-off and made no sense with the other one having been removed. |  | | |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:25 - Jun 30 with 1307 views | BlueBadger |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:24 - Jun 30 by jeera |
Oh I see, so those have already been removed then?
Yes, agree with you there that those maybe should have been left on show.
What's wrong with some people? |
I'm not sure what's up with Shropshireblue and a few others, who've all downvoted the entirely reasonable suggestion that had the positions been reversed the sentencing would have been far, far, far stiffer. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:26 - Jun 30 with 1303 views | jeera |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:25 - Jun 30 by PhilTWTD |
I got rid of two. One which was telling someone to F-off, which was the woke brigade one, and another which made reference to the F-off and made no sense with the other one having been removed. |
It does seem that Owain's comment may have been misunderstood by one or two.
Unless of course... | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:30 - Jun 30 with 1272 views | jeera |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:25 - Jun 30 by BlueBadger |
I'm not sure what's up with Shropshireblue and a few others, who've all downvoted the entirely reasonable suggestion that had the positions been reversed the sentencing would have been far, far, far stiffer. |
Quite. That's what I wasn't understanding.
Owain's right, although in part for the wrong reason, given that any assault against uniform is treated more seriously anyway.
The rest of his point stands I'd say though. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:32 - Jun 30 with 1267 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:25 - Jun 30 by PhilTWTD |
I got rid of two. One which was telling someone to F-off, which was the woke brigade one, and another which made reference to the F-off and made no sense with the other one having been removed. |
Yep. Think that was the one I saw. There was reference to another poster too and maybe i missed that comment.
I get all the administrative and editorial reasons why those kind of posts have to be removed. I just guess in a realitively closed eco-system like this (as opposed to the global free-for-all that is twitter) I quite favour the give them enough rope approach. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:43 - Jun 30 with 1233 views | fergalsharkey |
Is anyone suggesting that the police officer killed Dalian because he was black?
Are you suggesting that had he arrived at the scene and been encountered with an out of control white guy with mental issues as Dalian was, he would have taken different actions?
I'm genuinely intrigued by your thoughts on this. |  |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:47 - Jun 30 with 1213 views | BlueBadger |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:32 - Jun 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
Yep. Think that was the one I saw. There was reference to another poster too and maybe i missed that comment.
I get all the administrative and editorial reasons why those kind of posts have to be removed. I just guess in a realitively closed eco-system like this (as opposed to the global free-for-all that is twitter) I quite favour the give them enough rope approach. |
Freedom of speech doesn't mean 'freedom from consequences' though.
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:51 - Jun 30 with 1193 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:43 - Jun 30 by fergalsharkey |
Is anyone suggesting that the police officer killed Dalian because he was black?
Are you suggesting that had he arrived at the scene and been encountered with an out of control white guy with mental issues as Dalian was, he would have taken different actions?
I'm genuinely intrigued by your thoughts on this. |
Yes. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 18:53 - Jun 30 with 1099 views | wkj |
If the freedom of expression is being advocated here, I find this post incredibly disturbing for one simple reason - which point is being used to prop up which point.
You have a consistent record for responding to pulled threads and seeking clarification on the decisions of mods/admins. That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing- but there are whiffs here that you're tugging at the Dalian Atkinson story, to prop up another motive.
Surely you can see that the depth of the two points converging in a single thread can make things seem opportunistic in some ways. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 18:53]
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 18:54 - Jun 30 with 1088 views | PhilTWTD |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:26 - Jun 30 by jeera |
It does seem that Owain's comment may have been misunderstood by one or two.
Unless of course... |
Yes, I thought the same. | | | |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:02 - Jun 30 with 1062 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 18:53 - Jun 30 by wkj |
If the freedom of expression is being advocated here, I find this post incredibly disturbing for one simple reason - which point is being used to prop up which point.
You have a consistent record for responding to pulled threads and seeking clarification on the decisions of mods/admins. That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing- but there are whiffs here that you're tugging at the Dalian Atkinson story, to prop up another motive.
Surely you can see that the depth of the two points converging in a single thread can make things seem opportunistic in some ways. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 18:53]
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Not my intention.
I have no alterior motive.
You are projecting.
All I'm saying that if someone on this board says something ugly, or something that it would be fair to say reflects a challenging view in society, one that might border on hate speech or worse, I for one would like to be able to see what view that person thinks it's ok to put forward as I think it is better to know that someone holds that view, rather than have it hidden.
That's all. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 19:04]
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:09 - Jun 30 with 1045 views | wkj |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:02 - Jun 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
Not my intention.
I have no alterior motive.
You are projecting.
All I'm saying that if someone on this board says something ugly, or something that it would be fair to say reflects a challenging view in society, one that might border on hate speech or worse, I for one would like to be able to see what view that person thinks it's ok to put forward as I think it is better to know that someone holds that view, rather than have it hidden.
That's all. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 19:04]
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This is where you need to back up and reverse it yourself...
"You are projecting."
You've immediately gone in with an assessment of me specifically.
My comments were focused on a perception of your post, rather than you as a poster.
It is at this point where intentions can begin to blur and the more emotive posters can get in a spiral of name-calling and bickering.
Besides, how can an observation revolving around the subject matter of two very potent points coming together in one post be perceived as projection, when no accusations or counterpoints are being made? | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:11 - Jun 30 with 1037 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 18:53 - Jun 30 by wkj |
If the freedom of expression is being advocated here, I find this post incredibly disturbing for one simple reason - which point is being used to prop up which point.
You have a consistent record for responding to pulled threads and seeking clarification on the decisions of mods/admins. That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing- but there are whiffs here that you're tugging at the Dalian Atkinson story, to prop up another motive.
Surely you can see that the depth of the two points converging in a single thread can make things seem opportunistic in some ways. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 18:53]
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And if a thread I've started or have commented on gets pulled and I don't know why, I'll ask.
I don't think that's particularly odd.
For one I'd like to know if I've said something that caused it to be pulled for obvious reasons.
And also if you go AFK and return to see a post you were interested in has been pulled I believe it's perfectly reasonable to ask for clarification on why it's disappeared. There is a gulf of difference between asking an admin/mod a question about an action they've taken to questioning their actions. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:18 - Jun 30 with 1004 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:09 - Jun 30 by wkj |
This is where you need to back up and reverse it yourself...
"You are projecting."
You've immediately gone in with an assessment of me specifically.
My comments were focused on a perception of your post, rather than you as a poster.
It is at this point where intentions can begin to blur and the more emotive posters can get in a spiral of name-calling and bickering.
Besides, how can an observation revolving around the subject matter of two very potent points coming together in one post be perceived as projection, when no accusations or counterpoints are being made? |
I say you are projecting because your post implies you have an opinion about me as a poster 'You have a consistent record'. Which is clearly you going in with an assessment of me specifically.
And I would say that there is a world of difference between asking why a thread about (not an exact example, but something like...) Whether PC's coaching staff is up to scratch is being pulled, from a post that's asking questions about racism and manslaugter. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:29 - Jun 30 with 976 views | wkj |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:18 - Jun 30 by OriginalMarkyP |
I say you are projecting because your post implies you have an opinion about me as a poster 'You have a consistent record'. Which is clearly you going in with an assessment of me specifically.
And I would say that there is a world of difference between asking why a thread about (not an exact example, but something like...) Whether PC's coaching staff is up to scratch is being pulled, from a post that's asking questions about racism and manslaugter. |
It isn't an assessment of you, but rather than a few threads similar to this - which was followed up with 'that isn't necessarily a bad thing'
A few years ago on this forum, there was a discussion of a teenager who was killed in the Queensway area of Ipswich. Before the lad was even identified, let alone buried, a thread broke out on here that went very ugly, and essentially turned into a bickering fest about crime, punishment, parenting skills, and even the character of the victim.
In my opinion, it was one of the most disgusting displays I have ever witnessed, as both sides of the argument were ignoring a simple truth - a young man died, we didn't know the name of the lad, but there would be a VERY real chance someone on here did know him - and was reading a whole bunch of bullsh*t based on conjecture alone.
So, when discussions break out about something sensitive and impactful for the community, and it veers off into a discussion about freedom of expression - questions and challenges to the motives of the post should absolutely be made.
You may do well to notice that I haven't argued your counterpoint with another. Simply provided further clarification to my question, which is essentially what I have asked you for as well. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:48 - Jun 30 with 929 views | Seablu |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 17:25 - Jun 30 by BlueBadger |
I'm not sure what's up with Shropshireblue and a few others, who've all downvoted the entirely reasonable suggestion that had the positions been reversed the sentencing would have been far, far, far stiffer. |
The Shropshireblue creature created an account purely to contribute to threads regarding societal prejudices and now he’s dipping his spoon in the Dalian Atkinson thread...
He’s one to watch. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 20:20]
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:49 - Jun 30 with 922 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:29 - Jun 30 by wkj |
It isn't an assessment of you, but rather than a few threads similar to this - which was followed up with 'that isn't necessarily a bad thing'
A few years ago on this forum, there was a discussion of a teenager who was killed in the Queensway area of Ipswich. Before the lad was even identified, let alone buried, a thread broke out on here that went very ugly, and essentially turned into a bickering fest about crime, punishment, parenting skills, and even the character of the victim.
In my opinion, it was one of the most disgusting displays I have ever witnessed, as both sides of the argument were ignoring a simple truth - a young man died, we didn't know the name of the lad, but there would be a VERY real chance someone on here did know him - and was reading a whole bunch of bullsh*t based on conjecture alone.
So, when discussions break out about something sensitive and impactful for the community, and it veers off into a discussion about freedom of expression - questions and challenges to the motives of the post should absolutely be made.
You may do well to notice that I haven't argued your counterpoint with another. Simply provided further clarification to my question, which is essentially what I have asked you for as well. |
I am not trying to open up a debate about free speech.
I am not being opportunistic, even if you think I might be.
I am simply saying that in a small online eco-system like this one, if people are expressing views that are offensive, sometimes shutting them down by removing their posts doesn't allow the 'group' to self-select them out of the picture. Pulling posts sometimes gives people who court contraversy exactly what they want. I'm just saying there are other ways to deal with it. And one of them is allowing them to be seen for what they are. I get why you have to pull them. But personally I think there are other ways to deal with it.
I'm not aware of the thread you're referring to. It sounds awful. I really don't have some hidden agenda. I find what happened to DA heart-breaking. And so avoidable. Which adds to the heart-break.
I'm also not going to engage in this thread further, because it seems to be morphing into a philosophical debate that isn't helping, and that wasn't my intention. So I'm going to leave it alone. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 19:52]
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 20:14 - Jun 30 with 875 views | BlueBadger |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 19:48 - Jun 30 by Seablu |
The Shropshireblue creature created an account purely to contribute to threads regarding societal prejudices and now he’s dipping his spoon in the Dalian Atkinson thread...
He’s one to watch. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 20:20]
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I look forward to this definitely totally new poster, honest, turning up on here the next time someone points out that the current government are institutionally corrupt,incompetent and have several figures who are openly bigoted. | |
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| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 20:23 - Jun 30 with 847 views | Seablu |
| Dalian Atkinson thread and comments. on 20:14 - Jun 30 by BlueBadger |
I look forward to this definitely totally new poster, honest, turning up on here the next time someone points out that the current government are institutionally corrupt,incompetent and have several figures who are openly bigoted. |
Won’t happen.
He’ll be quite happy swimming with some like-minded plankton in the comments swamp. | | | |
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