| What a day 22:28 - Sep 19 with 3261 views | baxterbasics |
Boy and I decided to try for Whitehall this morning - got in place at 2:30am which was early enough for an excellent view, just before the corner of Horse Guards Parade. We were almost touching distance.
There’s been lots of discussion in the last ten days about the future of the monarchy, lots of comments like “whatever you feel about them… blah blah” - I started the day moderately supportive, came away with the hope that this regime endures until the end of time (which I guess is what these events are meant to do!) May foes and cynics be forever frustrated. God save The King.
(Also, ten hours on one spot is really tough. Kudos to the met police men and women who stood to attention nearly as long, facing the crowd, not even turning their heads once to view the procession.) |  |
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| What a day on 22:32 - Sep 19 with 2686 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
"Moderately supportive." |  |
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| What a day on 00:03 - Sep 20 with 2491 views | XYZ |
Quite. Laughable, really, although no doubt some will fall for it.
Do they admit their dishonesty to themselves or is it a Stockholm syndrome-like thing? |  | | |
| What a day on 09:23 - Sep 20 with 2117 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Glad you had a great day and felt that wait was worth it.
Personally I would rather have a Head of State who would feel able to use their powers to stop a Prime Minister who wanted to unlawfully shut down Parliament, so hypnotic drum beating and feathery hats don't quite cut it for me.
Oh, and there's that thing about his brother and financial corruption, and the sex trafficking parties pay off, and the racist comments about Harry and Megan's kids, and Nicholas Fcking Witchell's obsequiousness, and the cult-like selective "respect" required in recent days, and the Orders in Council which ethnically cleansed the Chagos Islanders, and the lack of Inheritance Tax, and the longstanding friendships with Jimmy Savile etc etc etc.
It's possible to have respect for Her Late Majesty and still still ask critical questions about the institution as a whole. We need a written Constitution and an end to the corrupt First Past the Post system first, though. | | | |
| What a day on 09:41 - Sep 20 with 2076 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
"came away with the hope that this regime endures until the end of time... May foes and cynics be forever frustrated."
But why? Let's see your workings? It can't just be you loved the outfits, flags and bagpipes.
I'd also suggested if you turned up for that at 2:30am and stood there for 10 hours, you started the day rather more than "moderately supportive". |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| What a day on 09:52 - Sep 20 with 2060 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| What a day on 09:23 - Sep 20 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Glad you had a great day and felt that wait was worth it.
Personally I would rather have a Head of State who would feel able to use their powers to stop a Prime Minister who wanted to unlawfully shut down Parliament, so hypnotic drum beating and feathery hats don't quite cut it for me.
Oh, and there's that thing about his brother and financial corruption, and the sex trafficking parties pay off, and the racist comments about Harry and Megan's kids, and Nicholas Fcking Witchell's obsequiousness, and the cult-like selective "respect" required in recent days, and the Orders in Council which ethnically cleansed the Chagos Islanders, and the lack of Inheritance Tax, and the longstanding friendships with Jimmy Savile etc etc etc.
It's possible to have respect for Her Late Majesty and still still ask critical questions about the institution as a whole. We need a written Constitution and an end to the corrupt First Past the Post system first, though. |
Exactly this. I have respect for the Queen and always thought she was a decent person.
However supporting a wealth hoarding, tax avoiding, hereditary institution that carefully massages its PR and opts out of laws they don’t fancy is basically cuckholding. | | | |
| What a day on 09:54 - Sep 20 with 2041 views | WeWereZombies |
| What a day on 09:41 - Sep 20 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"came away with the hope that this regime endures until the end of time... May foes and cynics be forever frustrated."
But why? Let's see your workings? It can't just be you loved the outfits, flags and bagpipes.
I'd also suggested if you turned up for that at 2:30am and stood there for 10 hours, you started the day rather more than "moderately supportive". |
You have a point in your final sentence, I thought there were millions in the queues and so on but the BBC news this morning estimated it at quarter of a million, so less than the Isle of Wight or Weeley festivals maybe. OK, a lot of people were able to participate through the medium of television (and fair play to Baxter for doing more than passive participating) but you also need to adjust the numbers present for tourists from outwith the Home Nations and Realms, or even the Commonwealth.
So those who informally attended the funeral and ceremonies amount to a two hundred and fiftieth of the home nation 's population, a five hundredth of the population of those and the realms. Not quite, and I say this as a 'small m' monarchist, the unquestionable outpouring that the BBC and our more 'wrap a flag around themselves' politicians would have us believe. |  |
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| What a day on 10:46 - Sep 20 with 1921 views | Ryorry |
| What a day on 09:54 - Sep 20 by WeWereZombies |
You have a point in your final sentence, I thought there were millions in the queues and so on but the BBC news this morning estimated it at quarter of a million, so less than the Isle of Wight or Weeley festivals maybe. OK, a lot of people were able to participate through the medium of television (and fair play to Baxter for doing more than passive participating) but you also need to adjust the numbers present for tourists from outwith the Home Nations and Realms, or even the Commonwealth.
So those who informally attended the funeral and ceremonies amount to a two hundred and fiftieth of the home nation 's population, a five hundredth of the population of those and the realms. Not quite, and I say this as a 'small m' monarchist, the unquestionable outpouring that the BBC and our more 'wrap a flag around themselves' politicians would have us believe. |
But who counts the millions watching live on TV because they (delete as applicable) live hours away, don't have the wealth or health to travel and stand/shuffle for 12 hours, were working in NHS or other key roles?
(I guess TV viewing figures will be put out at some point, tho I wonder if that will take account of community big screens). |  |
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| What a day on 12:20 - Sep 20 with 1801 views | baxterbasics |
| What a day on 09:54 - Sep 20 by WeWereZombies |
You have a point in your final sentence, I thought there were millions in the queues and so on but the BBC news this morning estimated it at quarter of a million, so less than the Isle of Wight or Weeley festivals maybe. OK, a lot of people were able to participate through the medium of television (and fair play to Baxter for doing more than passive participating) but you also need to adjust the numbers present for tourists from outwith the Home Nations and Realms, or even the Commonwealth.
So those who informally attended the funeral and ceremonies amount to a two hundred and fiftieth of the home nation 's population, a five hundredth of the population of those and the realms. Not quite, and I say this as a 'small m' monarchist, the unquestionable outpouring that the BBC and our more 'wrap a flag around themselves' politicians would have us believe. |
On the numbers who watched it in person, worth pointing out that this was only possible via four designated 'viewing areas' along Whitehall and The Mall, with access controlled for crowd safety, and once these were considered at capacity people were instead directed to the big screen at Hyde Park. So there was always a maximum capacity that could be accommodated and it would be well below 'millions' - unsure if this was replicated at the Windsor end.
Edit - I just noticed the 250,000 figure was for the lying-in-state queue so perhaps not quite comparing apples with apples here. But again - this was limited by time. Am sure the crowds would have kept coming at the same pace for another week or more if allowed. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 12:34]
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| What a day on 15:35 - Sep 20 with 1701 views | bluelagos |
| What a day on 09:23 - Sep 20 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Glad you had a great day and felt that wait was worth it.
Personally I would rather have a Head of State who would feel able to use their powers to stop a Prime Minister who wanted to unlawfully shut down Parliament, so hypnotic drum beating and feathery hats don't quite cut it for me.
Oh, and there's that thing about his brother and financial corruption, and the sex trafficking parties pay off, and the racist comments about Harry and Megan's kids, and Nicholas Fcking Witchell's obsequiousness, and the cult-like selective "respect" required in recent days, and the Orders in Council which ethnically cleansed the Chagos Islanders, and the lack of Inheritance Tax, and the longstanding friendships with Jimmy Savile etc etc etc.
It's possible to have respect for Her Late Majesty and still still ask critical questions about the institution as a whole. We need a written Constitution and an end to the corrupt First Past the Post system first, though. |
With all of that. But for me you miss the biggest issue (for me) against the Monarchy, and that is the simple question of are we a meritocratic society?
Because if we are, if we believe people should get to where they can based on their own merit, hard work, ability, then how can we possible also doth our caps to someone who is in that position solely because of the family they were born into?
When I was teaching I used to say to the kids "You can do anything you want, achieve anything you want, if you place your mind to it" - and it simply isn't true. Society places barriers to all sorts of people, based on their colour, class, gender, race, sexuality etc.
And if we going to ever break down those barriers what better place to start than right at the very top? |  |
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| What a day on 15:55 - Sep 20 with 1635 views | J2BLUE |
As much as this OP is a car crash, I have to admit my beliefs have mellowed a lot over the last decade or so. I've gone from strong republican to, dare I say it, mildly supportive. Mainly for pragmatic reasons. I don't like the inherited titles and find people actually using the phrase royal highness to be utterly perplexing but overall I am probably now mildly supportive.
To put on an event like that where the world's most powerful people come to pay their respects really does show the benefit of 'soft power'.
Part of me feels like a sell out. The other part just doesn't really care and why fight the tide? They aren't going anywhere. Give it 20 years and it might be more of a debate. For now, i'm reluctantly mildly supportive. |  |
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| What a day on 16:17 - Sep 20 with 1569 views | baxterbasics |
| What a day on 15:55 - Sep 20 by J2BLUE |
As much as this OP is a car crash, I have to admit my beliefs have mellowed a lot over the last decade or so. I've gone from strong republican to, dare I say it, mildly supportive. Mainly for pragmatic reasons. I don't like the inherited titles and find people actually using the phrase royal highness to be utterly perplexing but overall I am probably now mildly supportive.
To put on an event like that where the world's most powerful people come to pay their respects really does show the benefit of 'soft power'.
Part of me feels like a sell out. The other part just doesn't really care and why fight the tide? They aren't going anywhere. Give it 20 years and it might be more of a debate. For now, i'm reluctantly mildly supportive. |
Upped you for your reasonable position, even if you did label my post a car crash.
As I posted elsewhere it may well be that the public mood takes a turn in the next decade or two, and if it does, the onus is on our elected officials to make constitutional changes which I can't see 'The Firm' having much ability to resist if the public pressure is there. They evolve when required, that's why it survives.
I also have no faith that any alternative would be better. If we had a directly elected presidency, with it's own bureaucracy and ceremony, can't see it costing Mr Taxpayer any less. | |
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| What a day on 16:22 - Sep 20 with 1555 views | jeera |
| What a day on 15:55 - Sep 20 by J2BLUE |
As much as this OP is a car crash, I have to admit my beliefs have mellowed a lot over the last decade or so. I've gone from strong republican to, dare I say it, mildly supportive. Mainly for pragmatic reasons. I don't like the inherited titles and find people actually using the phrase royal highness to be utterly perplexing but overall I am probably now mildly supportive.
To put on an event like that where the world's most powerful people come to pay their respects really does show the benefit of 'soft power'.
Part of me feels like a sell out. The other part just doesn't really care and why fight the tide? They aren't going anywhere. Give it 20 years and it might be more of a debate. For now, i'm reluctantly mildly supportive. |
Would it be fair to ask how much of the sentiment though is just that, sentiment?
As in a bit overwhelmed by the show (as it were) that you've described.
A number have commented on how well 'we'* put on the pomp and how prestigious it all looked.
I didn't show yesterday a lot of consideration but it was hard to avoid completely and have to say that the little I did see brought a bit of pride to the fore in me too.
But that wasn't so much to do with my feelings on the institution.
I was just taken in by the glamour and shiny things.
*I can't take any credit for that other than being born here. |  |
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| What a day on 17:24 - Sep 20 with 1504 views | Bluebell |
| What a day on 10:46 - Sep 20 by Ryorry |
But who counts the millions watching live on TV because they (delete as applicable) live hours away, don't have the wealth or health to travel and stand/shuffle for 12 hours, were working in NHS or other key roles?
(I guess TV viewing figures will be put out at some point, tho I wonder if that will take account of community big screens). |
Agree Ryorry.
‘Live hours away, don’t have the wealth or health to stand/shuffle for 12 hours’
I don’t have the bladder to do any of that! My worry would be - were there any toilets and if so, would you lose your place in the crowds if you needed one? |  | | |
| What a day on 17:36 - Sep 20 with 1473 views | Ryorry |
| What a day on 17:24 - Sep 20 by Bluebell |
Agree Ryorry.
‘Live hours away, don’t have the wealth or health to stand/shuffle for 12 hours’
I don’t have the bladder to do any of that! My worry would be - were there any toilets and if so, would you lose your place in the crowds if you needed one? |
Hi Bluebell - I think there were portaloos, but also places like the Royal Festival Hall etc. opened their doors, including right through the nights, to allow people to pee n poo in comfort. Must have cost them in staffing etc., so a generous thing to do.
Just heard (from radio in kitchen & I'm in study, so didn't catch the details) viewing figures for yesterday's BBC1 coverage - 25.2 million  at c.midday.
You might be interested in this!
https://www.shewee.com/ | |
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| What a day on 17:52 - Sep 20 with 1450 views | Warkystache |
| What a day on 17:36 - Sep 20 by Ryorry |
Hi Bluebell - I think there were portaloos, but also places like the Royal Festival Hall etc. opened their doors, including right through the nights, to allow people to pee n poo in comfort. Must have cost them in staffing etc., so a generous thing to do.
Just heard (from radio in kitchen & I'm in study, so didn't catch the details) viewing figures for yesterday's BBC1 coverage - 25.2 million at c.midday.
You might be interested in this!
https://www.shewee.com/ |
'I'm in the study'? Blimey. What do you do with the other 160-odd rooms? |  |
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| What a day on 17:55 - Sep 20 with 1442 views | Ryorry |
| What a day on 17:52 - Sep 20 by Warkystache |
'I'm in the study'? Blimey. What do you do with the other 160-odd rooms? |
Idiot.
2 small downstairs rooms + kitchen.
If that's alright by you  | |
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| What a day on 18:02 - Sep 20 with 1426 views | Trequartista |
It's just nonsense. Get rid :-) |  |
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| What a day on 18:09 - Sep 20 with 1405 views | bluelagos |
| What a day on 17:36 - Sep 20 by Ryorry |
Hi Bluebell - I think there were portaloos, but also places like the Royal Festival Hall etc. opened their doors, including right through the nights, to allow people to pee n poo in comfort. Must have cost them in staffing etc., so a generous thing to do.
Just heard (from radio in kitchen & I'm in study, so didn't catch the details) viewing figures for yesterday's BBC1 coverage - 25.2 million at c.midday.
You might be interested in this!
https://www.shewee.com/ |
Details here Ryorry
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| What a day on 18:21 - Sep 20 with 1374 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What a day on 10:46 - Sep 20 by Ryorry |
But who counts the millions watching live on TV because they (delete as applicable) live hours away, don't have the wealth or health to travel and stand/shuffle for 12 hours, were working in NHS or other key roles?
(I guess TV viewing figures will be put out at some point, tho I wonder if that will take account of community big screens). |
Millions? I heard it was over 4 BILLION people tuned in to watch/listen. I though the newsreader (it was on radio news bulletin, BBC I think) had misspoken, but then they went on to say it was over half the global population. I’ve no idea how they come up with such numbers nor how accurate they are, but anything in the vaguely similar ballpark shows a phenomenon amount of interest.
Most will be voyeurs though rather than necessarily supporters. I loved the “outfits, flags and bagpipes” as Dolly put it. Far more than I thought I would. As a piece of theatre it was great, but I still don’t see the point of them. And I mean that very literally- I have no need of them, so for me they are pointless. I don’t feel any more British because of them. I don’t need someone providing ‘a constant throughout my life’, or any other supposed benefit we hear. But maybe some people do. Maybe it’s a bit like religion and some people need the structure, certainty and emotional support these institutions provide. That’s obviously fine too. |  |
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| What a day on 18:26 - Sep 20 with 1367 views | bluelagos |
| What a day on 18:21 - Sep 20 by Swansea_Blue |
Millions? I heard it was over 4 BILLION people tuned in to watch/listen. I though the newsreader (it was on radio news bulletin, BBC I think) had misspoken, but then they went on to say it was over half the global population. I’ve no idea how they come up with such numbers nor how accurate they are, but anything in the vaguely similar ballpark shows a phenomenon amount of interest.
Most will be voyeurs though rather than necessarily supporters. I loved the “outfits, flags and bagpipes” as Dolly put it. Far more than I thought I would. As a piece of theatre it was great, but I still don’t see the point of them. And I mean that very literally- I have no need of them, so for me they are pointless. I don’t feel any more British because of them. I don’t need someone providing ‘a constant throughout my life’, or any other supposed benefit we hear. But maybe some people do. Maybe it’s a bit like religion and some people need the structure, certainty and emotional support these institutions provide. That’s obviously fine too. |
4 Bn is complete nonsense - and yeah, it was being banded about. As someone pointed out - that would be every adult - in the entire world. | |
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| What a day on 18:31 - Sep 20 with 1345 views | Churchman |
| What a day on 16:22 - Sep 20 by jeera |
Would it be fair to ask how much of the sentiment though is just that, sentiment?
As in a bit overwhelmed by the show (as it were) that you've described.
A number have commented on how well 'we'* put on the pomp and how prestigious it all looked.
I didn't show yesterday a lot of consideration but it was hard to avoid completely and have to say that the little I did see brought a bit of pride to the fore in me too.
But that wasn't so much to do with my feelings on the institution.
I was just taken in by the glamour and shiny things.
*I can't take any credit for that other than being born here. |
I’m sort of where you are on this, Jeera. I felt pride in it, especially for the organisers and the military. I thought it was an amazing spectacle, embodying (some) history and (some) tradition. Having only seen up close some relatively minor events, it was some achievement.
Had I lived in the 17c I’d have fought for Parliament. I am instinctively anti monarchy because I’ve always felt that it’s a legacy system that sustains privilege and a head of state who is born into the role has to be fundamentally wrong.
The sustaining of privilege has always been there long before the Barons forced King John to sign Magna Carta to preserve their power (nowt to do with the plebs and he ignored it anyway) to ending the divine right of kings only to restore Charles 2nd 10 years later. That’s no reason to sustain it further.
However, I’m a bit of a hypocrite. I’ve signed the forms and marched past the Royals and all that jazz with the best of them. Why? I don’t know. The job? Maybe I see them as a binding agent; continuity in a changing world, part of this country’s weird and wonderful history and peculiar identity. I know - all nonsense, but there are elements there of how I feel.
More likely, while they are an anachronism, I don’t see any better alternatives out there and that’s where I see J2Blue coming from. The future? The monarchy if it’s to survive at all it has to change.
So if there was a vote to abolish it and replace it with an American style constitution, which way would I vote? I think I know.
Rant over. |  | | |
| What a day on 18:34 - Sep 20 with 1348 views | solomon |
Maybe one thing that royalists and republicans can agree on, bagpipes when played like that are hugely emotive and make an awesome spectacle. |  | | |
| What a day on 18:46 - Sep 20 with 1306 views | Dubtractor |
| What a day on 18:26 - Sep 20 by bluelagos |
4 Bn is complete nonsense - and yeah, it was being banded about. As someone pointed out - that would be every adult - in the entire world. |
Not even half of the UK watched it, so less than zero chance that half the whole planet did. |  |
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| What a day on 18:50 - Sep 20 with 1283 views | bluelagos |
| What a day on 18:46 - Sep 20 by Dubtractor |
Not even half of the UK watched it, so less than zero chance that half the whole planet did. |
And a third of them would have been asleep... | |
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