| England 20:27 - Sep 11 with 4504 views | cobbler |
Looking woeful.
Every time we play a half decent team we always put on one of these performances.
Everyone was banging on about us in the World Cup I thought average at best, if we played as the Swiss have tonight so far I would be well impressed bossing the game but as it is dire from England. [Post edited 11 Sep 2018 20:44]
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| England on 20:48 - Sep 11 with 4021 views | itfcjoe |
This 3 at the back system just doesn't suit the personnel |  |
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| England on 20:53 - Sep 11 with 4009 views | Garv |
Personally I can't believe we don't have a better option that Welbeck, and I also can't stand Dele Alli and really don't rate him highly at all, not for England anyway.
I'm also not watching, those two might be the best of the bunch tonight for all I know! |  |
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| England on 20:54 - Sep 11 with 4005 views | Ftnfwest |
| England on 20:48 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
This 3 at the back system just doesn't suit the personnel |
Trouble is we’ve almost run out of personnel, at least playing in the premier league. Still not much chance of Norwich coming to the rescue with their 5 Englishmen in a squad of 30 odd. |  | | |
| England on 20:54 - Sep 11 with 4005 views | Ftnfwest |
| England on 20:53 - Sep 11 by Garv |
Personally I can't believe we don't have a better option that Welbeck, and I also can't stand Dele Alli and really don't rate him highly at all, not for England anyway.
I'm also not watching, those two might be the best of the bunch tonight for all I know! |
Ali has contributed nothing tonight | | | |
| England on 21:01 - Sep 11 with 3985 views | Harry_Palmer |
| England on 20:48 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
This 3 at the back system just doesn't suit the personnel |
I must admit I am starting to question it now as well. It looked good when we first started using it but I think teams have worked us out now, put the press onto our back three and they will give the ball away sooner or later.
I think Southgate needs to look at a back four in some of these friendly games so that we at least have a plan b. It seems as though he wants to stick with the 3-5-2 regardless, no matter who we are playing or how badly a particular game may be going. |  | | |
| England on 21:02 - Sep 11 with 3967 views | GlasgowBlue |
We haven't played well since the Sweden game. |  |
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| England on 21:03 - Sep 11 with 3968 views | sparks |
| England on 21:01 - Sep 11 by Harry_Palmer |
I must admit I am starting to question it now as well. It looked good when we first started using it but I think teams have worked us out now, put the press onto our back three and they will give the ball away sooner or later.
I think Southgate needs to look at a back four in some of these friendly games so that we at least have a plan b. It seems as though he wants to stick with the 3-5-2 regardless, no matter who we are playing or how badly a particular game may be going. |
It makes a lot of sense given our attacking wing backs - which we have in depth, both sides.
It is falling out of favour as a formation again though- and its eseential that they play high as part of a midfield mostly.
Ali has not reproduced club form for England and his place should be in question.
Welbeck is hard to understand. There are other players around, but they dont get picked. |  |
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| England on 21:08 - Sep 11 with 3955 views | itfcjoe |
| England on 21:01 - Sep 11 by Harry_Palmer |
I must admit I am starting to question it now as well. It looked good when we first started using it but I think teams have worked us out now, put the press onto our back three and they will give the ball away sooner or later.
I think Southgate needs to look at a back four in some of these friendly games so that we at least have a plan b. It seems as though he wants to stick with the 3-5-2 regardless, no matter who we are playing or how badly a particular game may be going. |
None of the players play this system week in wee out, we don;t play it through the age groups either.
We really need to get comfortable playing some variation of 433 as 352 is too reliant on the whole team being on it, when one player in that system struggles the whole thing falls apart | |
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| England on 21:13 - Sep 11 with 3940 views | itfcjoe |
| England on 21:03 - Sep 11 by sparks |
It makes a lot of sense given our attacking wing backs - which we have in depth, both sides.
It is falling out of favour as a formation again though- and its eseential that they play high as part of a midfield mostly.
Ali has not reproduced club form for England and his place should be in question.
Welbeck is hard to understand. There are other players around, but they dont get picked. |
Alli is a number 10, he is so good for Spurs because he plays off Kane and is often in front of him - he plays such a deeper role for England and that loses his main abilities of timing of runs and decisiveness of finishing.
The fact we have those 2 as such a succesful pairing ina very good side makes me think Southgate should look to try and play them together in that way set up in a similar style to how Spurs play.
It worries me that when personnel changes, we try to shoehorn players into the exact same roles when often they just don't suit.
Also, with regards to the attacking wing backs, they are successes at club level in a 4, not as wing backs so shouldn't really matter | |
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| England on 21:16 - Sep 11 with 3934 views | Harry_Palmer |
| England on 21:03 - Sep 11 by sparks |
It makes a lot of sense given our attacking wing backs - which we have in depth, both sides.
It is falling out of favour as a formation again though- and its eseential that they play high as part of a midfield mostly.
Ali has not reproduced club form for England and his place should be in question.
Welbeck is hard to understand. There are other players around, but they dont get picked. |
I agree it does suit our personnel. I certainly wouldn't abandon it but just think we need a plan b if things are not working or to use against certain opposition.
We have certainly picked up in the second half of this match though, just by raising the tempo and intensity. | | | |
| England on 21:31 - Sep 11 with 3895 views | Johnny_Boy |
Much improved in the 2nd half TBF.
A bit of conviction & belief is a wonderful thing. |  | | |
| England on 22:26 - Sep 11 with 3807 views | Garv |
| England on 20:54 - Sep 11 by Ftnfwest |
Ali has contributed nothing tonight |
His touch for such a top player is shocking at times.
His saving grace, if I can say it, is he does pop up with the odd goal. | |
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| England on 22:46 - Sep 11 with 3772 views | Ftnfwest |
| England on 22:26 - Sep 11 by Garv |
His touch for such a top player is shocking at times.
His saving grace, if I can say it, is he does pop up with the odd goal. |
Didn’t mis control a single ball tonight tbf | | | |
| England on 23:02 - Sep 11 with 3744 views | davblue |
| England on 21:08 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
None of the players play this system week in wee out, we don;t play it through the age groups either.
We really need to get comfortable playing some variation of 433 as 352 is too reliant on the whole team being on it, when one player in that system struggles the whole thing falls apart |
IMO Southgate has good ideas, just not convinced he’s good enough to implement them though.
Would rather this to Sam’s style and probably his player selection. |  | | |
| England on 21:28 - Sep 12 with 3405 views | poppiesman |
| England on 21:13 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
Alli is a number 10, he is so good for Spurs because he plays off Kane and is often in front of him - he plays such a deeper role for England and that loses his main abilities of timing of runs and decisiveness of finishing.
The fact we have those 2 as such a succesful pairing ina very good side makes me think Southgate should look to try and play them together in that way set up in a similar style to how Spurs play.
It worries me that when personnel changes, we try to shoehorn players into the exact same roles when often they just don't suit.
Also, with regards to the attacking wing backs, they are successes at club level in a 4, not as wing backs so shouldn't really matter |
Spot on about Dele's role with Kane. He plays far too deep for England. He would be far more effective for England if he played in the same role as he does for Spurs.
They are also helped at Spurs by Eriksen, no England player comes close to providing chances etc that he does. |  | | |
| England on 07:24 - Sep 13 with 3346 views | christiand |
| England on 21:13 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
Alli is a number 10, he is so good for Spurs because he plays off Kane and is often in front of him - he plays such a deeper role for England and that loses his main abilities of timing of runs and decisiveness of finishing.
The fact we have those 2 as such a succesful pairing ina very good side makes me think Southgate should look to try and play them together in that way set up in a similar style to how Spurs play.
It worries me that when personnel changes, we try to shoehorn players into the exact same roles when often they just don't suit.
Also, with regards to the attacking wing backs, they are successes at club level in a 4, not as wing backs so shouldn't really matter |
But England manager's have always had a habit of doing that. For example, Sven with his midfield options during that supposed 'Golden Generation' would try to shoehorn: Lampard, Gerrad, Beckham and Scholes in to his sides where he should have just played the best player in their rightful position. Scholes, in my opinion, was the best midfielder out of the lot and yet he was the one that was often compromised. [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 7:27]
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| England on 08:21 - Sep 13 with 3310 views | itfcjoe |
| England on 07:24 - Sep 13 by christiand |
But England manager's have always had a habit of doing that. For example, Sven with his midfield options during that supposed 'Golden Generation' would try to shoehorn: Lampard, Gerrad, Beckham and Scholes in to his sides where he should have just played the best player in their rightful position. Scholes, in my opinion, was the best midfielder out of the lot and yet he was the one that was often compromised. [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 7:27]
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Whilst Scholes was an excellent player, this myth about him seems to grow. He was pretty poor for England for a long period and Lampard and Gerrard were rightfully ahead of him in central roles - he even admits so.
When he first came into team he scored loads, after that he didn't make any real contributions. | |
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| England on 13:00 - Sep 13 with 3247 views | christiand |
| England on 08:21 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
Whilst Scholes was an excellent player, this myth about him seems to grow. He was pretty poor for England for a long period and Lampard and Gerrard were rightfully ahead of him in central roles - he even admits so.
When he first came into team he scored loads, after that he didn't make any real contributions. |
Difficult to make an impact when played continually out of the position and stuck in an unnatural position on the left side of midfield, which was our problem area at the time. Scholes should of played more centrally, then you would have seen the best of him in a white shirt instead of trying to accommodate others. | |
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| England on 13:20 - Sep 13 with 3228 views | itfcjoe |
| England on 13:00 - Sep 13 by christiand |
Difficult to make an impact when played continually out of the position and stuck in an unnatural position on the left side of midfield, which was our problem area at the time. Scholes should of played more centrally, then you would have seen the best of him in a white shirt instead of trying to accommodate others. |
But he didn't spend that long on the left, it was only really at Euro 2004 when he went there.
In the build up to that tournament we had been trying to play a diamond with lampard at the base, Becks right, Gerrard left and Scholes at the top.
Scholes had a poor qualifying campaign and everyone wanted to go back to a flat 4 and he didn't have the legs to play in the middle in that heat so think Sven made best decision. Scholes was hardly a winger too, he just used to drift inisde and Cole bombed up and down that flank.
We were the best team in that tournament, and but for Rooney breaking his foot we'd have won it with Scholes on the left
Scholes said later ‘A lot of people blamed Sven for me quitting England, but the truth is I played on the wing for Man United too and scored a lot of goals,’ also said that he didn't like international duty and being away from his family for long periods. | |
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| England on 13:51 - Sep 13 with 3208 views | HennikerBlu |
| England on 13:20 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
But he didn't spend that long on the left, it was only really at Euro 2004 when he went there.
In the build up to that tournament we had been trying to play a diamond with lampard at the base, Becks right, Gerrard left and Scholes at the top.
Scholes had a poor qualifying campaign and everyone wanted to go back to a flat 4 and he didn't have the legs to play in the middle in that heat so think Sven made best decision. Scholes was hardly a winger too, he just used to drift inisde and Cole bombed up and down that flank.
We were the best team in that tournament, and but for Rooney breaking his foot we'd have won it with Scholes on the left
Scholes said later ‘A lot of people blamed Sven for me quitting England, but the truth is I played on the wing for Man United too and scored a lot of goals,’ also said that he didn't like international duty and being away from his family for long periods. |
I agree on the tournament performance of England, I have always wondered about that tackle against Rooney, never a chance in hell of getting the ball. I good while since I have seen it, but possibly a sending off today and a penalty.
Rooney's best tournament for England for me, I felt for England he was never quite the same.
Found this:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=euro+2004+portugal+rooney+injury&&view=deta | | | |
| England on 14:32 - Sep 13 with 3190 views | itfcjoe |
| England on 13:51 - Sep 13 by HennikerBlu |
I agree on the tournament performance of England, I have always wondered about that tackle against Rooney, never a chance in hell of getting the ball. I good while since I have seen it, but possibly a sending off today and a penalty.
Rooney's best tournament for England for me, I felt for England he was never quite the same.
Found this:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=euro+2004+portugal+rooney+injury&&view=deta |
I was at the game so that is probably the first time I've ever seen it back - looks relatively innocuous on first viewing but he does look down when he lands on it | |
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| England on 14:36 - Sep 13 with 3183 views | HennikerBlu |
| England on 14:32 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
I was at the game so that is probably the first time I've ever seen it back - looks relatively innocuous on first viewing but he does look down when he lands on it |
No eyes on or towards the ball, its an interesting one, they simply could not deal with his pace nor could anyone else. At that tournament he was world class and deserved to get to and play in the final.
Must have been a great experience being at that tournament. | | | |
| England on 07:08 - Sep 14 with 3140 views | christiand |
| England on 13:20 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
But he didn't spend that long on the left, it was only really at Euro 2004 when he went there.
In the build up to that tournament we had been trying to play a diamond with lampard at the base, Becks right, Gerrard left and Scholes at the top.
Scholes had a poor qualifying campaign and everyone wanted to go back to a flat 4 and he didn't have the legs to play in the middle in that heat so think Sven made best decision. Scholes was hardly a winger too, he just used to drift inisde and Cole bombed up and down that flank.
We were the best team in that tournament, and but for Rooney breaking his foot we'd have won it with Scholes on the left
Scholes said later ‘A lot of people blamed Sven for me quitting England, but the truth is I played on the wing for Man United too and scored a lot of goals,’ also said that he didn't like international duty and being away from his family for long periods. |
Actually playing Scholes in his proper position the one he played at United might actually have benefited the England team more and seen us win something. Scholes, wasn't a 'Flash Harry' that adored the publicity and was probably trying to be diplomatic in his response about playing on the left wing, he just wants to play. I certainly don't recall him playing that often for United as a winger, occasionally yes, but his position was centrally where he could dictate play and influence games. It's not really a surprise when most England players of that generation say Scholes was the best English player they played with or against. We just never used him properly and for a sustained period for England as we were too busy accommodating others instead of thinking what was best for the team! | |
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| England on 08:24 - Sep 14 with 3117 views | itfcjoe |
| England on 07:08 - Sep 14 by christiand |
Actually playing Scholes in his proper position the one he played at United might actually have benefited the England team more and seen us win something. Scholes, wasn't a 'Flash Harry' that adored the publicity and was probably trying to be diplomatic in his response about playing on the left wing, he just wants to play. I certainly don't recall him playing that often for United as a winger, occasionally yes, but his position was centrally where he could dictate play and influence games. It's not really a surprise when most England players of that generation say Scholes was the best English player they played with or against. We just never used him properly and for a sustained period for England as we were too busy accommodating others instead of thinking what was best for the team! |
Scholes only played on the left for Euro 2004, so hardly like he spent years out there - and Lampard and Gerrard were excellent in that tournament.
I read something in Sven's(?) book where Scholes didn't even practice penalties with the squad in that tournament as said he wouldn't be able to get through 120 minutes in those conditions so was no point - and he went of just before the hour against Portugak in the quarter finals.
I think Sven had it right in that tournament, Lampard and Gerrard were fantastic players as well as Scholes and were in much better form. | |
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