| Mr Jones on the 4-day week 18:34 - Nov 9 with 3068 views | StokieBlue |
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/09/britain-stressed-overworke
Some valid points around productivity in there but he hasn't explained how it will work so thought I'd ask the TWTD collective if they had any ideas/knowledge.
So does a 4 day week mean 80% the take home pay? Or are businesses and the public sector expected to pay 5 days for 4 days work and then another 1 day for the other days work which he wants to "redistribute":
"But a shorter working week would enable us to redistribute hours from the overworked to the underworked"
If it's the first one could most people get by on 80% their income? Could most businesses and the public sector get by with an extra 20% outlay?
It seems very light on actual facts and ideas, hence the questions to the board.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:40 - Nov 9 with 2482 views | Swansea_Blue |
We run both. Some people on 80% full time equivalent, others on condensed hours (100%, worked across 4 longer days).
4-day weeks are great if everyone is on them. But a pain in the butt when not, as you inevitably need that person when they’re not in.
Don’t see it hitting productivity. If anything 4 dayers tend to be a bit more focussed. |  |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:49 - Nov 9 with 2460 views | Lord_Lucan |
I haven't had a single day off for three weeks. During that time I have been working until a minimum 21.00, an average of 22.00 and a couple of nights till way gone midnight.
How the hell can someone work a 4 day week?
FFS |  |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:52 - Nov 9 with 2445 views | Darth_Koont |
Not sure how it would work but in my industry (advertising) if people had fewer days to plan meetings, overthink or sit on their @rse we'd actually get more done. And it would feel easier and be more fun too.
So in theory we could still get 100% if not increase it based on keeping the same output and increasing the quality.
Of course, none of that applies to proper industries that already work efficiently and have already worked out the cost and potential waste in minutes rather than hours or days. |  |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:57 - Nov 9 with 2434 views | J2BLUE |
Too many people see hours worked as some sort of badge of honour. They believe in working harder not working smarter. The usual suspects will be along shortly to dismiss this as some sort of workshy millennial idea.
The one good part of my last job was the 4 day week. I was on 37.5 hours and we then went to 9 hour days do I asked to drop my hours to 36 and do a four day week and to my surprised they agreed. What would be really great is if we all had Wednesdays off. The boost to mental and physical health would be massive. Two days of working smart AND hard. Day off. Another two days. There's no reason we couldn't work full time hours over four days if we had that kind of working week.
Again, the turkeys will vote for Christmas and it will be dismissed as some sort of crackpot idea. |  |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:57 - Nov 9 with 2430 views | Darth_Koont |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:49 - Nov 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I haven't had a single day off for three weeks. During that time I have been working until a minimum 21.00, an average of 22.00 and a couple of nights till way gone midnight.
How the hell can someone work a 4 day week?
FFS |
Don't your lips get chapped?
But seriously, I think working for yourself is tough unless you'd do a lot of it for free because you enjoy it. There are certainly a lot easier ways to make money. Having done both and now on the freelance side to get "freedom" and "control", I'm looking at the fully employed side with all the automatic pension and admin benefits and starting to wonder whether I'm not giving up more than I'm supposedly gaining. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:00 - Nov 9 with 2411 views | J2BLUE |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:49 - Nov 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I haven't had a single day off for three weeks. During that time I have been working until a minimum 21.00, an average of 22.00 and a couple of nights till way gone midnight.
How the hell can someone work a 4 day week?
FFS |
Most people don't work for themselves and forgive the assumption but I assume you're making enough money to think it's worth it. Bit different for someone on 20k in an office. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:01 - Nov 9 with 2407 views | StokieBlue |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:57 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
Too many people see hours worked as some sort of badge of honour. They believe in working harder not working smarter. The usual suspects will be along shortly to dismiss this as some sort of workshy millennial idea.
The one good part of my last job was the 4 day week. I was on 37.5 hours and we then went to 9 hour days do I asked to drop my hours to 36 and do a four day week and to my surprised they agreed. What would be really great is if we all had Wednesdays off. The boost to mental and physical health would be massive. Two days of working smart AND hard. Day off. Another two days. There's no reason we couldn't work full time hours over four days if we had that kind of working week.
Again, the turkeys will vote for Christmas and it will be dismissed as some sort of crackpot idea. |
I agree productivity could possibly increase as people become more efficient.
But who is going to work those Wednesdays when things still need to get done. The company is now either paying 20% more which is a lot to take out of a bottom line or the employee is living off 80%, also hard to deal with for those leveraged with a mortgage or other expenses.
The idea has merit, the details are nowhere to be seen though and I think that is dangerous. Stating something should happen and be a goal of someone without details leads to false promises and hope.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:03 - Nov 9 with 2393 views | J2BLUE |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:01 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
I agree productivity could possibly increase as people become more efficient.
But who is going to work those Wednesdays when things still need to get done. The company is now either paying 20% more which is a lot to take out of a bottom line or the employee is living off 80%, also hard to deal with for those leveraged with a mortgage or other expenses.
The idea has merit, the details are nowhere to be seen though and I think that is dangerous. Stating something should happen and be a goal of someone without details leads to false promises and hope.
SB |
In my example no one is losing out. The employee is still full time and the employer isn't paying extra.
Most people wouldn't even care about working a 40 hour week over 4 days.
As for Wednesdays, things would quickly adapt IMO. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:07 - Nov 9 with 2382 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:00 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
Most people don't work for themselves and forgive the assumption but I assume you're making enough money to think it's worth it. Bit different for someone on 20k in an office. |
Through a series of disasters over a 5 year period up to 2015 I lost about £400k so it's a case of wiping your mouth and getting it back.
I would probably swap your bank balance for mine.
I get what you mean though but I have always worked like a mad man, if I was employed and had a 4 day week it would would kill me, I'd get another job on the side. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:10 - Nov 9 with 2366 views | StokieBlue |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:03 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
In my example no one is losing out. The employee is still full time and the employer isn't paying extra.
Most people wouldn't even care about working a 40 hour week over 4 days.
As for Wednesdays, things would quickly adapt IMO. |
I can see how it would work in your example.
Why would they adapt?
What about if you do business with other countries who do work Wednesday? What if it rely on international markets?
It certainly could work but it's so fluffy. As I said, he needs to provide details not utopian ideas.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:11 - Nov 9 with 2364 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:10 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
I can see how it would work in your example.
Why would they adapt?
What about if you do business with other countries who do work Wednesday? What if it rely on international markets?
It certainly could work but it's so fluffy. As I said, he needs to provide details not utopian ideas.
SB |
It's bloody ridiculous, that's what it is. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:16 - Nov 9 with 2345 views | J2BLUE |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:10 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
I can see how it would work in your example.
Why would they adapt?
What about if you do business with other countries who do work Wednesday? What if it rely on international markets?
It certainly could work but it's so fluffy. As I said, he needs to provide details not utopian ideas.
SB |
What would need to be done on that specific day? I'm sure you can give me loads of examples but my mind is blank. If it's urgent to be done by Wednesday suddenly you have an extra half day of time on Monday/Tuesday to do it. If it isn't urgent it would be left until Thursday.
Wednesday is just one idea. Half the workforce could take Wednesday and half Friday. Alternate each week.
Edited: would to could. [Post edited 9 Nov 2018 19:19]
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:21 - Nov 9 with 2320 views | brogansnose |
Surely the people who are underworked would need to have the neccessary skills to fill in the void created. I'm thinking here of the construction industry where we already have a shortfall of trained workers which I'm sure could be repeated accross other sectors such as the NHS. Madam B works in the NHS and works ridiculous hours. |  | | |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:23 - Nov 9 with 2311 views | Wonky |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:57 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
Too many people see hours worked as some sort of badge of honour. They believe in working harder not working smarter. The usual suspects will be along shortly to dismiss this as some sort of workshy millennial idea.
The one good part of my last job was the 4 day week. I was on 37.5 hours and we then went to 9 hour days do I asked to drop my hours to 36 and do a four day week and to my surprised they agreed. What would be really great is if we all had Wednesdays off. The boost to mental and physical health would be massive. Two days of working smart AND hard. Day off. Another two days. There's no reason we couldn't work full time hours over four days if we had that kind of working week.
Again, the turkeys will vote for Christmas and it will be dismissed as some sort of crackpot idea. |
Agreed. Germany and France GDP exceeds ours with a shorter working week. The more hours = more productivity idea is wrong. |  | | |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:25 - Nov 9 with 2300 views | BlueBadger |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 18:57 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
Too many people see hours worked as some sort of badge of honour. They believe in working harder not working smarter. The usual suspects will be along shortly to dismiss this as some sort of workshy millennial idea.
The one good part of my last job was the 4 day week. I was on 37.5 hours and we then went to 9 hour days do I asked to drop my hours to 36 and do a four day week and to my surprised they agreed. What would be really great is if we all had Wednesdays off. The boost to mental and physical health would be massive. Two days of working smart AND hard. Day off. Another two days. There's no reason we couldn't work full time hours over four days if we had that kind of working week.
Again, the turkeys will vote for Christmas and it will be dismissed as some sort of crackpot idea. |
Another consequence of people actually getting on with their jobs would be that Phil and Gav would have to go and find proper jobs as the footfall on this place would drop drastically.. |  |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:33 - Nov 9 with 2270 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:16 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
What would need to be done on that specific day? I'm sure you can give me loads of examples but my mind is blank. If it's urgent to be done by Wednesday suddenly you have an extra half day of time on Monday/Tuesday to do it. If it isn't urgent it would be left until Thursday.
Wednesday is just one idea. Half the workforce could take Wednesday and half Friday. Alternate each week.
Edited: would to could. [Post edited 9 Nov 2018 19:19]
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What if a corner shop owner opened 5 days a week and employed one permanent member of staff? What happens to him?
It seems madness to me, what if my project manager has Thursdays off and the person he is dealing with as a customer has Tuesdays off?
These are just a couple of daft things completely off the top of my head. What’s to stop a lazy 5 day a week bastard becoming a lazy 4 day a week bastard?
I hope you never need an emergency plumber on his day off. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:37 - Nov 9 with 2256 views | J2BLUE |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:33 - Nov 9 by Lord_Lucan |
What if a corner shop owner opened 5 days a week and employed one permanent member of staff? What happens to him?
It seems madness to me, what if my project manager has Thursdays off and the person he is dealing with as a customer has Tuesdays off?
These are just a couple of daft things completely off the top of my head. What’s to stop a lazy 5 day a week bastard becoming a lazy 4 day a week bastard?
I hope you never need an emergency plumber on his day off. |
I doubt a corner shop staff member would work standard hours across five days anyway.
It could be flexible.
That lazy bastard would still be doing the same hours so what would be the difference? They might even feel more motivated knowing they have an extra day off during the week. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:44 - Nov 9 with 2242 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:37 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
I doubt a corner shop staff member would work standard hours across five days anyway.
It could be flexible.
That lazy bastard would still be doing the same hours so what would be the difference? They might even feel more motivated knowing they have an extra day off during the week. |
I like you J2 but it’s all a load of bloody nonsense and please don’t take offence but I think you must live and work in a parallel universe.
Does this 4 day a week think apply to our players and coaching staff? What happens to ticket office if we had a cup run.
I appreciate my last sentence was a bit far fetched. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:47 - Nov 9 with 2231 views | gtsb |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:07 - Nov 9 by Lord_Lucan |
Through a series of disasters over a 5 year period up to 2015 I lost about £400k so it's a case of wiping your mouth and getting it back.
I would probably swap your bank balance for mine.
I get what you mean though but I have always worked like a mad man, if I was employed and had a 4 day week it would would kill me, I'd get another job on the side. |
I worked in engineering for 31 years on the nightshift. At 50 I was very fortunate to be able to take a big redundancy package and retire on a final salary pension. Within two months I got a part time driving job as sitting at home was doing my head in so I know where you are coming from. |  | | |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:47 - Nov 9 with 2225 views | Clapham_Junction |
If I wasn't paying so much in rent, I would seriously considering going down to four days, even if it meant a 20% pay cut.
Building on that, perhaps the answer is to look at how the government can cut living costs - particularly housing - which would enable people to get by with less money and not need to work as much.
I'm currently reading a book called Bullsh1t Jobs, which is making the case that a huge number of jobs have no added value, and that by getting rid of them, the valuable/useful work could be spread between people doing less hours, I guess with no loss of income. |  | | |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:50 - Nov 9 with 2211 views | J2BLUE |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:44 - Nov 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I like you J2 but it’s all a load of bloody nonsense and please don’t take offence but I think you must live and work in a parallel universe.
Does this 4 day a week think apply to our players and coaching staff? What happens to ticket office if we had a cup run.
I appreciate my last sentence was a bit far fetched. |
I think it's fairly obvious that this would be an office jobs type of deal just as the five day week is. The current system doesn't mean everyone works over five days. When I did a 5 day week at my last job before dropping down I actually did a 6 day week followed by a 4 day week.
Your plumber example makes no sense unless they refuse to come out for two days a week at the moment? | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:55 - Nov 9 with 2186 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:50 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
I think it's fairly obvious that this would be an office jobs type of deal just as the five day week is. The current system doesn't mean everyone works over five days. When I did a 5 day week at my last job before dropping down I actually did a 6 day week followed by a 4 day week.
Your plumber example makes no sense unless they refuse to come out for two days a week at the moment? |
Ah, so are you saying it’s only for people like hum drum office workers and everyone else has to continue doing a full days work.
Everyone stays on the same money but Keith from The Office gets an extra day off.
Even some Keith’s struggle to get all their work done in 5 days.
It’s loony tunes - and I’ve only just clicked and read that a loony has suggested it. | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 20:03 - Nov 9 with 2162 views | J2BLUE |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 19:55 - Nov 9 by Lord_Lucan |
Ah, so are you saying it’s only for people like hum drum office workers and everyone else has to continue doing a full days work.
Everyone stays on the same money but Keith from The Office gets an extra day off.
Even some Keith’s struggle to get all their work done in 5 days.
It’s loony tunes - and I’ve only just clicked and read that a loony has suggested it. |
No idea what you're struggling with here to be honest. The current five day week Monday to Friday idea is mainly for office workers. It clearly doesn't apply to people working in retail, for emergency service, to emergency plumbers etc.
All that is being suggested is that if someone, for example, works a 40 hour week over 5 days and does 8 hours a day they instead do 10 hours a day over 4 days. This would have a number of benefits to employees, employers and society (less NHS expenditure on a happier and healthier public etc)
Companies could stagger the day people had off so the office stays open for all 5 days. A big office could stagger it over 5 days. A smaller office could stagger over 2 days.
It's not that revolutionary if you let go on the bizarre concept of having to work over five days (says who?). Why do we even have 2 days off? Lets make it 6 or 7! | |
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| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 20:07 - Nov 9 with 2154 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mr Jones on the 4-day week on 20:03 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
No idea what you're struggling with here to be honest. The current five day week Monday to Friday idea is mainly for office workers. It clearly doesn't apply to people working in retail, for emergency service, to emergency plumbers etc.
All that is being suggested is that if someone, for example, works a 40 hour week over 5 days and does 8 hours a day they instead do 10 hours a day over 4 days. This would have a number of benefits to employees, employers and society (less NHS expenditure on a happier and healthier public etc)
Companies could stagger the day people had off so the office stays open for all 5 days. A big office could stagger it over 5 days. A smaller office could stagger over 2 days.
It's not that revolutionary if you let go on the bizarre concept of having to work over five days (says who?). Why do we even have 2 days off? Lets make it 6 or 7! |
It still doesn’t work. What if you are dealing in the office on overseas business on a daily basis. | |
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