| Any thoughts on this? on 20:49 - Nov 1 with 2502 views | footers |
You seem awfully preoccupied with trans issues, buh. Live and let live, eh? Doubt it affects you so chill and follow the Towen.
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| Any thoughts on this? on 20:55 - Nov 1 with 2465 views | LankHenners |
It’s nothing to do with someone’s rights being ‘superior’ to another’s, more so M&S making a complete hash of the whole situation.
People need to stop ranking rights/issues of various groups as well. |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 20:57 - Nov 1 with 2453 views | J2BLUE |
It's a tough time for businesses who are in a lose/lose situation. They are going to offend someone whatever they do. |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 20:59 - Nov 1 with 2436 views | J2BLUE |
| Any thoughts on this? on 20:55 - Nov 1 by LankHenners |
It’s nothing to do with someone’s rights being ‘superior’ to another’s, more so M&S making a complete hash of the whole situation.
People need to stop ranking rights/issues of various groups as well. |
People need to stop ranking rights/issues of various groups as well.
That is going to happen when the interests of groups are directly in opposition. I don't think you can just say stop it. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:02 - Nov 1 with 2421 views | Darth_Koont |
Not sure I see the problem.
Changing areas are just a curtain and if they were unisex it wouldn't change the basic rules that people can try on clothes in privacy.
Added to which, I've been in and around enough female changing areas waiting for my daughters and wife as a long-suffering shopping aide. Not sure a trans person is any huge concern given how open everything is anyway. |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:03 - Nov 1 with 2403 views | LankHenners |
| Any thoughts on this? on 20:59 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
People need to stop ranking rights/issues of various groups as well.
That is going to happen when the interests of groups are directly in opposition. I don't think you can just say stop it. |
How are they “directly in opposition” here? Properly set up gender-neutral changing rooms would be fine, not this blundered free for all system M&S seem to have created. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:03 - Nov 1 with 2404 views | Darth_Koont |
| Any thoughts on this? on 20:59 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
People need to stop ranking rights/issues of various groups as well.
That is going to happen when the interests of groups are directly in opposition. I don't think you can just say stop it. |
What interests of groups are directly in opposition? If you take triggered white males out of the equation, of course. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:05 - Nov 1 with 2389 views | J2BLUE |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:03 - Nov 1 by LankHenners |
How are they “directly in opposition” here? Properly set up gender-neutral changing rooms would be fine, not this blundered free for all system M&S seem to have created. |
I wasn't specifically talking about this issue. I thought your comment was a general comment.
To give Darth an example, trans women in sports etc. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:06 - Nov 1 with 2375 views | giant_stow |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:03 - Nov 1 by Darth_Koont |
What interests of groups are directly in opposition? If you take triggered white males out of the equation, of course. |
Don't think that's fair - seems a live issue for many women. |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:07 - Nov 1 with 2365 views | jeera |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:02 - Nov 1 by Darth_Koont |
Not sure I see the problem.
Changing areas are just a curtain and if they were unisex it wouldn't change the basic rules that people can try on clothes in privacy.
Added to which, I've been in and around enough female changing areas waiting for my daughters and wife as a long-suffering shopping aide. Not sure a trans person is any huge concern given how open everything is anyway. |
Isn't part of the argument here that anyone can say they're cross-gender though and wander into areas?
I see in the article M&S state cubicles can be locked so in that respect it shouldn't matter who's in which, but there is usually a common area outside the cubicles isn't there, where women generally like to ask the opinion of whoever they're with.
But then that part is usually the bit where bored dads/partners wait around anyway as you say.
I'm more concerned I'm bored enough to try to care. |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:12 - Nov 1 with 2336 views | LankHenners |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:05 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
I wasn't specifically talking about this issue. I thought your comment was a general comment.
To give Darth an example, trans women in sports etc. |
It was specific because the OP is guilty of doing it.
I’d say generally it’s only more complex issues where there is some sort of “opposition” though I’d hesitate to call it that.
You do see it a lot though when there’s a trans rights issue and there’s a backlash of ‘oh so suddenly they’re more important than everyone else then are they?’ nonsense. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:15 - Nov 1 with 2315 views | Ftnfwest |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:07 - Nov 1 by jeera |
Isn't part of the argument here that anyone can say they're cross-gender though and wander into areas?
I see in the article M&S state cubicles can be locked so in that respect it shouldn't matter who's in which, but there is usually a common area outside the cubicles isn't there, where women generally like to ask the opinion of whoever they're with.
But then that part is usually the bit where bored dads/partners wait around anyway as you say.
I'm more concerned I'm bored enough to try to care. |
Which cubicle do drag queens go into? (Asking for a ‘friend’) |  | | |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:15 - Nov 1 with 2312 views | Darth_Koont |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:05 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
I wasn't specifically talking about this issue. I thought your comment was a general comment.
To give Darth an example, trans women in sports etc. |
Which is a very specific and complex example.
Here there needs to be discussion and even thinking about what the nature of sport is. There aren't any simple answers but personally, I think women's sports would do well to be inclusive here.
If we're going to have hard and fast rules about where trans athletes shouldn't have a chance then we might as well scrap all genders and say women just can't have their own sports.
Trying to find a balance around testosterone levels would be a start. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:17 - Nov 1 with 2299 views | Darth_Koont |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:07 - Nov 1 by jeera |
Isn't part of the argument here that anyone can say they're cross-gender though and wander into areas?
I see in the article M&S state cubicles can be locked so in that respect it shouldn't matter who's in which, but there is usually a common area outside the cubicles isn't there, where women generally like to ask the opinion of whoever they're with.
But then that part is usually the bit where bored dads/partners wait around anyway as you say.
I'm more concerned I'm bored enough to try to care. |
As you say, the bored dads/partners are there anyway.
It's really not a big issue, and not a gender issue, if people's privacy is taken as read. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:19 - Nov 1 with 2286 views | jeera |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:15 - Nov 1 by Ftnfwest |
Which cubicle do drag queens go into? (Asking for a ‘friend’) |
I'll let you know. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:20 - Nov 1 with 2283 views | Darth_Koont |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:06 - Nov 1 by giant_stow |
Don't think that's fair - seems a live issue for many women. |
Then I think they need to have a bit more understanding for trans people. Overall.
I'm not sure they're trying to impose themselves on women rather than find a place where they fit in, despite that place not being at all clear. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:28 - Nov 1 with 2238 views | giant_stow |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:20 - Nov 1 by Darth_Koont |
Then I think they need to have a bit more understanding for trans people. Overall.
I'm not sure they're trying to impose themselves on women rather than find a place where they fit in, despite that place not being at all clear. |
I can absolutely see what you're saying, but these issues really do seem like a true clash of rights and needs, at least in certain situations. I believe there's a huge debate in the lgbt world about all this right now and I can see why. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:29 - Nov 1 with 2235 views | giant_stow |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:15 - Nov 1 by Ftnfwest |
Which cubicle do drag queens go into? (Asking for a ‘friend’) |
Depends if they're in drag I guess | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:31 - Nov 1 with 2230 views | giant_stow |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:15 - Nov 1 by Darth_Koont |
Which is a very specific and complex example.
Here there needs to be discussion and even thinking about what the nature of sport is. There aren't any simple answers but personally, I think women's sports would do well to be inclusive here.
If we're going to have hard and fast rules about where trans athletes shouldn't have a chance then we might as well scrap all genders and say women just can't have their own sports.
Trying to find a balance around testosterone levels would be a start. |
So women: accept trans athletes or we'll just have to stop your chance of glory or making a living like us men can do?! I can see why a feminist would kick off at that point. [Post edited 1 Nov 2019 21:33]
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:32 - Nov 1 with 2229 views | Darth_Koont |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:28 - Nov 1 by giant_stow |
I can absolutely see what you're saying, but these issues really do seem like a true clash of rights and needs, at least in certain situations. I believe there's a huge debate in the lgbt world about all this right now and I can see why. |
There's a debate certainly. But a woman who says she thinks it's bad isn't the definitive voice on the subject.
Of course, listen to her and others but what's the practical and fair solution for a group who have more to deal with in society than almost anyone else? | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:32 - Nov 1 with 2226 views | itfcjoe |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:15 - Nov 1 by Darth_Koont |
Which is a very specific and complex example.
Here there needs to be discussion and even thinking about what the nature of sport is. There aren't any simple answers but personally, I think women's sports would do well to be inclusive here.
If we're going to have hard and fast rules about where trans athletes shouldn't have a chance then we might as well scrap all genders and say women just can't have their own sports.
Trying to find a balance around testosterone levels would be a start. |
Trans women competing in women’s sports is inherently unfair and will be the death of it.
The Brits going away from Best Male and Best Female will affect women more than men.
Trans rights are trumping women’s rights currently, it’s wrong and will balance out in time |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:33 - Nov 1 with 2226 views | BlueBadger |
| Any thoughts on this? on 20:49 - Nov 1 by footers |
You seem awfully preoccupied with trans issues, buh. Live and let live, eh? Doubt it affects you so chill and follow the Towen.
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This is where I'm at, I'm not for one second going to pretend I understand all this '100 different genders' stuff the kids go on about, but I don't think that being a dick about it is the right thing to do. |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:37 - Nov 1 with 2213 views | StokieBlue |
Can't really see the logic in having changing rooms divided by sex anyway - everything important happens behind a door and in private.
Unisex toilets are becoming increasingly prevalent, this seems little different.
It's 2019, not 1950. Things change.
SB |  |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:39 - Nov 1 with 2191 views | Darth_Koont |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:31 - Nov 1 by giant_stow |
So women: accept trans athletes or we'll just have to stop your chance of glory or making a living like us men can do?! I can see why a feminist would kick off at that point. [Post edited 1 Nov 2019 21:33]
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Women's sports exist because sport is for everyone. And far more important than winning or losing.
Now give that right to a trans person ...
If women say no then they're putting their own rights at risk. They need to embrace male-female trans people and help them find a place in sport as women.
And male sport can share a bit more of its money to help female sport and share the responsibility.
Sport is for all. All we have to do is remember that. | |
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| Any thoughts on this? on 21:48 - Nov 1 with 2167 views | itfcjoe |
| Any thoughts on this? on 21:39 - Nov 1 by Darth_Koont |
Women's sports exist because sport is for everyone. And far more important than winning or losing.
Now give that right to a trans person ...
If women say no then they're putting their own rights at risk. They need to embrace male-female trans people and help them find a place in sport as women.
And male sport can share a bit more of its money to help female sport and share the responsibility.
Sport is for all. All we have to do is remember that. |
When push comes to shove that doesn’t work.
The former NZ male champion power lifter cleaning up the medals in women’s weightlifting now they are trans.
The trans cyclist winning the indoors. The trans women wrestling girls in the States.
This will be, and probably already is being, exploited and who wants to see what are effectively men in a physical sense beating women comfortably? How does that encourage women to go into sports? | |
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