| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:12 - Apr 9 with 3316 views | StokieBlue |
It's not as easy as you make out though.
Every single country in the world is trying to get more PPE gear to the point where the US are active outbidding other developed countries on the runway as the plane is about to leave.
I agree we need more PPE gear but the implication seems to be we aren't trying to get it?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:13 - Apr 9 with 3264 views | brazil1982 |
Doctor Who is dead?! |  | | |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:19 - Apr 9 with 3290 views | monytowbray |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:12 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue |
It's not as easy as you make out though.
Every single country in the world is trying to get more PPE gear to the point where the US are active outbidding other developed countries on the runway as the plane is about to leave.
I agree we need more PPE gear but the implication seems to be we aren't trying to get it?
SB |
Doesn’t help we decided not to stockpile any as it costs too much in the first place though.
What we’re being told and what is happening don’t seem to add up.
https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/nurse-poll-hints-at-scale-of-shortag |  |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:40 - Apr 9 with 3227 views | StokieBlue |
Most other countries haven't stockpiled either, hence my first post.
It's not an easy situation.
SB [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 19:45]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:49 - Apr 9 with 3211 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:12 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue |
It's not as easy as you make out though.
Every single country in the world is trying to get more PPE gear to the point where the US are active outbidding other developed countries on the runway as the plane is about to leave.
I agree we need more PPE gear but the implication seems to be we aren't trying to get it?
SB |
We weren't trying to get them early on (around the time we went into lockdown). People and organisations were donating PPE to their local hospitals as orders weren't being placed (we donated our entire supply of lab gear). It wasn't a case of orders being placed that couldn't be delivered. Simply they weren't being ordered.
It does now appear we're in a bidding war as demand has risen though, that seems correct. Badger's probably got some insight from his place, but not sure he'd be able to tell us due to gagging orders that are being put on NHS staff who speak out (and why would they do that...?).
The more news that comes out, the more it seems that we were woefully under-prepared. Increasingly tensions are showing from No 10 too. There have been several reports in the media of a battle of wills going on there. Yesterday we had the CMO saying lessons were to be learnt from Germany's testing approach, and then attempts to deflect from that straight afterwards.
Hard for us to seperate rumour from the actual situation, but the signs that we ballsed up are looking pretty strong at the moment as more testimonies come out. |  |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:51 - Apr 9 with 3194 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:49 - Apr 9 by Swansea_Blue |
We weren't trying to get them early on (around the time we went into lockdown). People and organisations were donating PPE to their local hospitals as orders weren't being placed (we donated our entire supply of lab gear). It wasn't a case of orders being placed that couldn't be delivered. Simply they weren't being ordered.
It does now appear we're in a bidding war as demand has risen though, that seems correct. Badger's probably got some insight from his place, but not sure he'd be able to tell us due to gagging orders that are being put on NHS staff who speak out (and why would they do that...?).
The more news that comes out, the more it seems that we were woefully under-prepared. Increasingly tensions are showing from No 10 too. There have been several reports in the media of a battle of wills going on there. Yesterday we had the CMO saying lessons were to be learnt from Germany's testing approach, and then attempts to deflect from that straight afterwards.
Hard for us to seperate rumour from the actual situation, but the signs that we ballsed up are looking pretty strong at the moment as more testimonies come out. |
Sorry Swansea but I can tell you with definite info that you are talking absolute b0llocks. |  |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:55 - Apr 9 with 3156 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:40 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue |
Most other countries haven't stockpiled either, hence my first post.
It's not an easy situation.
SB [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 19:45]
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Bloody Tories!!!!!! Really screwed up over this in Italy, France and Spain. Boris Out!!!! Blah blah blah!!!!! |  |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:02 - Apr 9 with 3146 views | tractordownsouth |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:40 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue |
Most other countries haven't stockpiled either, hence my first post.
It's not an easy situation.
SB [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 19:45]
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I still think the fact we didn't take part in the EU ventilator scheme despite being eligible to do so just "because we're an independent country" is an absolute shambles mind |  |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:05 - Apr 9 with 3143 views | tractordownsouth |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:51 - Apr 9 by Lord_Lucan |
Sorry Swansea but I can tell you with definite info that you are talking absolute b0llocks. |
How so?
I think the financial response from the government was been very good and have praised them for it, but the fact we didn't bulk buy ventilators, despite Hancock saying we were "prepared" in the House of Commons in January, is horrendous. The WHO advice has been to keep testing and testing, which we haven't done. | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:08 - Apr 9 with 3117 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:02 - Apr 9 by tractordownsouth |
I still think the fact we didn't take part in the EU ventilator scheme despite being eligible to do so just "because we're an independent country" is an absolute shambles mind |
Looks like Dyson's ventilators will be ready long before the EU.
https://euobserver.com/tickers/147981 | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:11 - Apr 9 with 3127 views | giant_stow |
Maybe i just got the wrong idea previously but the predicted peak of deaths seems to have moved forwars a couple of weeks - anyone know why?
Presumably this means we'll be seeing well over a 1000 deaths per day if thats the case? Again, anyone got any idea on why we seem to be getting it worse [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 20:23]
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:15 - Apr 9 with 3050 views | Pecker |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:55 - Apr 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Bloody Tories!!!!!! Really screwed up over this in Italy, France and Spain. Boris Out!!!! Blah blah blah!!!!! |
That's my line. |  | | |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:17 - Apr 9 with 3084 views | Trequartista |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:11 - Apr 9 by giant_stow |
Maybe i just got the wrong idea previously but the predicted peak of deaths seems to have moved forwars a couple of weeks - anyone know why?
Presumably this means we'll be seeing well over a 1000 deaths per day if thats the case? Again, anyone got any idea on why we seem to be getting it worse [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 20:23]
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It's all very confusing, today there were 881 UK deaths reported for the last 24 hours, but NHS England said only 140 of the 765 in England were yesterday, the rest were earlier in the week??? |  |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:17 - Apr 9 with 3069 views | xrayspecs |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:02 - Apr 9 by tractordownsouth |
I still think the fact we didn't take part in the EU ventilator scheme despite being eligible to do so just "because we're an independent country" is an absolute shambles mind |
Rather than competing for ventilators on the international market where demand has pushed prices up by many multiples of normal times price, UK government has worked with UK high tech engineering sector to build our own.
Mercedes are now producing 1000 CPAP machines per day for the NHS and have given their blueprint/intellectual property away for free so that others can also copy/produce more machines.
On this particular topic, the government have done a good job. It also means that CPAP machines (which we will need in the future) will be a lot cheaper for all health care systems to manufacture. | | | |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:25 - Apr 9 with 3035 views | giant_stow |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:17 - Apr 9 by Trequartista |
It's all very confusing, today there were 881 UK deaths reported for the last 24 hours, but NHS England said only 140 of the 765 in England were yesterday, the rest were earlier in the week??? |
No clue here. Despite daily briefings thing seem muddy | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:25 - Apr 9 with 3035 views | xrayspecs |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:11 - Apr 9 by giant_stow |
Maybe i just got the wrong idea previously but the predicted peak of deaths seems to have moved forwars a couple of weeks - anyone know why?
Presumably this means we'll be seeing well over a 1000 deaths per day if thats the case? Again, anyone got any idea on why we seem to be getting it worse [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 20:23]
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I suspect this is as much to do with our understanding/modelling assumptions evolving as it is about the rate of transmission. We are trying to model something that has not existed before late last year and the potential analogs - SARS, MERS, Ebola are quite different in reality. | | | |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:27 - Apr 9 with 3024 views | giant_stow |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:17 - Apr 9 by xrayspecs |
Rather than competing for ventilators on the international market where demand has pushed prices up by many multiples of normal times price, UK government has worked with UK high tech engineering sector to build our own.
Mercedes are now producing 1000 CPAP machines per day for the NHS and have given their blueprint/intellectual property away for free so that others can also copy/produce more machines.
On this particular topic, the government have done a good job. It also means that CPAP machines (which we will need in the future) will be a lot cheaper for all health care systems to manufacture. |
You're right, building our own does seem vital, with a global free for all apparently developing. | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:30 - Apr 9 with 3013 views | monytowbray |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 19:55 - Apr 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Bloody Tories!!!!!! Really screwed up over this in Italy, France and Spain. Boris Out!!!! Blah blah blah!!!!! |
Is this your way of deflecting being a bit annoyed and in denial about what you’ve actively voted for over the last decade plus? Because this is a pretty immature and sulky post by your usual standards. | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:31 - Apr 9 with 3009 views | monytowbray |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:11 - Apr 9 by giant_stow |
Maybe i just got the wrong idea previously but the predicted peak of deaths seems to have moved forwars a couple of weeks - anyone know why?
Presumably this means we'll be seeing well over a 1000 deaths per day if thats the case? Again, anyone got any idea on why we seem to be getting it worse [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 20:23]
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Positive signs though. The cases are dropping off whilst we, errr, still don’t test enough. | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:32 - Apr 9 with 3003 views | giant_stow |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:25 - Apr 9 by xrayspecs |
I suspect this is as much to do with our understanding/modelling assumptions evolving as it is about the rate of transmission. We are trying to model something that has not existed before late last year and the potential analogs - SARS, MERS, Ebola are quite different in reality. |
On one hand thats fair, but on other hand several countries are apparently ahead of us in their epidemics, so doesnt that provide useful data? | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:34 - Apr 9 with 2986 views | monytowbray |
If it were Corbyn you’d be on the side that says hindsight won’t change what a reckless move it was.
Also note it wasn’t just ventilators they were providing, but PPE gear too.
Never ever imply I put a spin on things again. | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:36 - Apr 9 with 2978 views | xrayspecs |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:17 - Apr 9 by Trequartista |
It's all very confusing, today there were 881 UK deaths reported for the last 24 hours, but NHS England said only 140 of the 765 in England were yesterday, the rest were earlier in the week??? |
The daily figures are not what people necessary assume.
- they are deaths reported in the last 24 hours rather than deaths in the last 24 hours
- a lot of folk who died were frail/unwell and had limited life expectancy
- some were dying and then caught Covid19 in hospital
- we have seen dips in the numbers over the weekend (non-reporting of cases) followed by a catch up in the following days
There is some debate about by how much the published figures underestimate the true figure as it is hospital deaths only. The emerging view is not by much as most folk, with the exception of those in care homes and possibly prisons end up in hospital for ICU care. | | | |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:44 - Apr 9 with 2946 views | monytowbray |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:17 - Apr 9 by xrayspecs |
Rather than competing for ventilators on the international market where demand has pushed prices up by many multiples of normal times price, UK government has worked with UK high tech engineering sector to build our own.
Mercedes are now producing 1000 CPAP machines per day for the NHS and have given their blueprint/intellectual property away for free so that others can also copy/produce more machines.
On this particular topic, the government have done a good job. It also means that CPAP machines (which we will need in the future) will be a lot cheaper for all health care systems to manufacture. |
My main issue is why take the risk of one or the other. They also didn’t get back to an actual ventilator manufacturer who enquired about upping production too, whilst giving out contracts to their mates. https://www.ft.com/content/f9051f66-cfbe-4b36-848e-3980225ae542
Then this came out today which is a risk I’ve not even considered: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-nhs-patient-safety-vent
Also the companies in question making the ventilators have said they won’t hit the correct numbers before peak. Really should have our eggs any basket that’s available: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/hancock-admits-nhs-may-not-hit-ventil
At what point do these dots start connecting? | |
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| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:45 - Apr 9 with 2950 views | Trequartista |
| Even their own cheerleaders are turning... on 20:36 - Apr 9 by xrayspecs |
The daily figures are not what people necessary assume.
- they are deaths reported in the last 24 hours rather than deaths in the last 24 hours
- a lot of folk who died were frail/unwell and had limited life expectancy
- some were dying and then caught Covid19 in hospital
- we have seen dips in the numbers over the weekend (non-reporting of cases) followed by a catch up in the following days
There is some debate about by how much the published figures underestimate the true figure as it is hospital deaths only. The emerging view is not by much as most folk, with the exception of those in care homes and possibly prisons end up in hospital for ICU care. |
But even taking into account they are reports of deaths in the last 24 hours, not actual deaths in the last 24 hours, how can there be a daily reported deaths of 800+ yesterday, and now today it's a weekly figure of 700+
And these are all NHS England figures so they are all hospitals only. | |
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