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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice 15:13 - Dec 23 with 2435 viewsFrimleyBlue

Get to share Xmas. Despite the facts showing the variant is spreading there

Yet all the others have to miss Xmas with family.


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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 22:38 - Dec 23 with 2139 viewsBlue12345

The government are showing so many contradictions and incompetence. We thought it was bad but it just gets worse.
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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 22:45 - Dec 23 with 2121 viewsjeera

Once again, the lack of direct action and clear leadership has been missing.

I'm annoyed, as I supposed millions of others are.

Not because I feel my personal liberties are being oppressed, that cannot be helped, but at the way I feel messed about.

One day I am trying to follow this, then the next I am trying to adapt to that. The people I care most about are subject to a different set of rules, then they're not.

Govern for feck's sake. Make some solid decisions based on the information you have available, stop guessing and listen to the people who understand the virus and how the situation should be played out, and be succinct when you make those decisions public.
[Post edited 23 Dec 2020 22:47]

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 22:45 - Dec 23 with 2122 viewsStokieBlue

Lots of calls from scientists to implement tier 4 in those areas from tomorrow but won't happen as that means cancelling Christmas for the entire SE.

The new variant has really messed up all the previous modelling and recommendations but the government will be slow to act.

SB

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:39 - Dec 23 with 2028 viewsvapour_trail

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 22:45 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue

Lots of calls from scientists to implement tier 4 in those areas from tomorrow but won't happen as that means cancelling Christmas for the entire SE.

The new variant has really messed up all the previous modelling and recommendations but the government will be slow to act.

SB


I feel for them a little with the latest twists. If all is as being presented that is, and I genuinely don’t trust them.

Like most people they will have been grateful of the better news emerging. We are now back on a dire footing. I am sure they’re as mentally exhausted as most.

It doesn’t detract from their repeated incompetence but it must be demoralising.

They should act immediately after Christmas however. I don’t see how anything other than an open ended national lockdown is an option. Just depends how severe it is. Selfishly, I want my kids in school for their own well-being but I think that will be unlikely.

Trailing vapour since 1999.
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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:47 - Dec 23 with 2004 viewstextbackup

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:39 - Dec 23 by vapour_trail

I feel for them a little with the latest twists. If all is as being presented that is, and I genuinely don’t trust them.

Like most people they will have been grateful of the better news emerging. We are now back on a dire footing. I am sure they’re as mentally exhausted as most.

It doesn’t detract from their repeated incompetence but it must be demoralising.

They should act immediately after Christmas however. I don’t see how anything other than an open ended national lockdown is an option. Just depends how severe it is. Selfishly, I want my kids in school for their own well-being but I think that will be unlikely.


its not selfish to want your kids in school, to learn. I want exactly the same, and id guess most of the country would agree, even the teachers want to teach.

but already seeing messages from mates "fck these new rules, im doing the same xmas as I had planned" oh, well done you

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:48 - Dec 23 with 2002 viewsstonojnr

well theres nothing stopping anyone treating tomorrow or the next day as if they are in tier 4 already... its about personal responsibility & personal choices at the end of the day, the government rules are the backstop of when you have to take that decision, not the nudge you need towards the beginning.
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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:59 - Dec 23 with 1968 viewsjeera

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:47 - Dec 23 by textbackup

its not selfish to want your kids in school, to learn. I want exactly the same, and id guess most of the country would agree, even the teachers want to teach.

but already seeing messages from mates "fck these new rules, im doing the same xmas as I had planned" oh, well done you


People with that attitude still just aren't making the connections how it's spreading are they?

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:03 - Dec 24 with 1960 viewstextbackup

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:59 - Dec 23 by jeera

People with that attitude still just aren't making the connections how it's spreading are they?


its incredible really isn't it.

same with my place of work, proved back in lockdown1 that this can be done from home, very easily, but now insist as its a critical role we must be in the office...… with 40/50 at any one time.

all boils down to trust, they don't trust the people to work from home.

they seem to glaze over when you try and explain that the virus loves people being in close proximity.

so short sighted

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:09 - Dec 24 with 1940 viewsjeera

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:03 - Dec 24 by textbackup

its incredible really isn't it.

same with my place of work, proved back in lockdown1 that this can be done from home, very easily, but now insist as its a critical role we must be in the office...… with 40/50 at any one time.

all boils down to trust, they don't trust the people to work from home.

they seem to glaze over when you try and explain that the virus loves people being in close proximity.

so short sighted


As for the workplace, I don't really know what to say to that.

They must be able to measure productivity.

To deliberately shove any number of people into any environment unnecessarily right now is downright irresponsible.

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:16 - Dec 24 with 1925 viewstextbackup

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:09 - Dec 24 by jeera

As for the workplace, I don't really know what to say to that.

They must be able to measure productivity.

To deliberately shove any number of people into any environment unnecessarily right now is downright irresponsible.


its madness mate, every worker is asking and pointing out the government rules etc, and the management are stone faced saying no (while WFH....)

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:20 - Dec 24 with 1914 viewspointofblue

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:16 - Dec 24 by textbackup

its madness mate, every worker is asking and pointing out the government rules etc, and the management are stone faced saying no (while WFH....)


I’d honestly be tempted to whistleblow to the press - the police will probably not have the time to investigate but a few choice words from a journalist might put the frighteners up them.

(You’ll now tell me you work for Archant or something!)

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:22 - Dec 24 with 1911 viewsjeera

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:16 - Dec 24 by textbackup

its madness mate, every worker is asking and pointing out the government rules etc, and the management are stone faced saying no (while WFH....)


No union by the sound of it?

I would be tempted to speak to someone in authority outside of the firm if you can get away with it, as in, I can understand you may feel your job would be under threat if 'caught'.

Caught's the wrong word of course, but you know what I mean.

It's not acceptable. You or co-workers may have vulnerable people at home/in their lives who they want to protect. The firm have a duty of care and aren't keeping their side of things.

There must be legislation but I won't pretend to know where to find it.

No HR department at the company?

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:45 - Dec 24 with 1878 viewsjeera

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:20 - Dec 24 by pointofblue

I’d honestly be tempted to whistleblow to the press - the police will probably not have the time to investigate but a few choice words from a journalist might put the frighteners up them.

(You’ll now tell me you work for Archant or something!)


Yeah, it's a tricky one and I don't want to try to tell anyone what they should/shouldn't do nor try to push any views across that might backfire either.

There's a bit of info available for anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation though:

https://www.unison.org.uk/coronavirus-rights-work/

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19

https://www.nelsonslaw.co.uk/returning-work-coronavirus/

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-to-do-if-your-company-isnt-handling-coronav

Trouble is, if no one is listening to your concerns, no matter how many times you point it out, the only option can be group action, and that takes trust and solidarity.

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:46 - Dec 24 with 1880 viewstextbackup

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:22 - Dec 24 by jeera

No union by the sound of it?

I would be tempted to speak to someone in authority outside of the firm if you can get away with it, as in, I can understand you may feel your job would be under threat if 'caught'.

Caught's the wrong word of course, but you know what I mean.

It's not acceptable. You or co-workers may have vulnerable people at home/in their lives who they want to protect. The firm have a duty of care and aren't keeping their side of things.

There must be legislation but I won't pretend to know where to find it.

No HR department at the company?


union and HR departments. they've let those with "conditions" WFH, but the rest are expected in. I don't really get it to be honest, they seem like robots when you questions them...

I believe the reason the building I deemed covid safe is because there are 30 hand sanitises on the desks.....

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:56 - Dec 24 with 1861 viewsjeera

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:46 - Dec 24 by textbackup

union and HR departments. they've let those with "conditions" WFH, but the rest are expected in. I don't really get it to be honest, they seem like robots when you questions them...

I believe the reason the building I deemed covid safe is because there are 30 hand sanitises on the desks.....


Like I say, solidarity sounds like the only way really, to me anyway.

Then you've got to be able to trust the people around you cos if the sh1t hits the fan no one wants to be the one standing there alone in the spotlight.

Someone who can pen a decent letter outlining the concerns addressed to management might be a start. Asap though, cos it sounds like they will drag their heels in any circumstance.

Get a few dozen signatures on there maybe.
[Post edited 24 Dec 2020 0:56]

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:58 - Dec 24 with 1855 viewspointofblue

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:56 - Dec 24 by jeera

Like I say, solidarity sounds like the only way really, to me anyway.

Then you've got to be able to trust the people around you cos if the sh1t hits the fan no one wants to be the one standing there alone in the spotlight.

Someone who can pen a decent letter outlining the concerns addressed to management might be a start. Asap though, cos it sounds like they will drag their heels in any circumstance.

Get a few dozen signatures on there maybe.
[Post edited 24 Dec 2020 0:56]


Just following on jeera’s post, I presume nothing more was said despite Tier 4 being implemented from Boxing Day?

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 01:03 - Dec 24 with 1847 viewsjeera

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:58 - Dec 24 by pointofblue

Just following on jeera’s post, I presume nothing more was said despite Tier 4 being implemented from Boxing Day?


Someone like Bully might have been useful here. I think he might know a bit about employment law.

Dunno, I do miss his input though.

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 08:22 - Dec 24 with 1680 viewsChurchman

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 23:47 - Dec 23 by textbackup

its not selfish to want your kids in school, to learn. I want exactly the same, and id guess most of the country would agree, even the teachers want to teach.

but already seeing messages from mates "fck these new rules, im doing the same xmas as I had planned" oh, well done you


People do surprise me. A close friend of mine is a primary career for his very frail dad who he lives next door to him here in Kent. He also has a very responsible job and is by no means stupid. He has been badgering me to go to his for a Stella or two and will be seeing his son and partner as planned over Christmas. A happy go lucky character, his view is ‘ah it’ll be ok’. But it isn’t ok. If this virus gets to his dad, he will die. That would be one heck of a thing for my friend to live with if it were to happen and it turned out he was the cause, so why not modify ones plans until things improve? They will in time.

As it goes, I will not be seeing my elderly dad for the moment and I certainly won’t be responsible for potentially carrying any virus into my mate’s house or quite frankly catching anything off him. I know he’s not happy about it but there it is, he knows my views.

This is rather a long winded way of saying that I believe that people have responsibilities to themselves but also to others and thinking of those currently in Tier 2 etc, don’t necessarily have to wait for government to tell them what to do. Nobody loves getting out and enjoying a beer / a bit of nose bag more than me. But C-19 is has no respect for Tiers, rules or boundaries and while risk can never be eliminated, it can be reduced.
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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 08:31 - Dec 24 with 1667 viewsitfcjoe

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:16 - Dec 24 by textbackup

its madness mate, every worker is asking and pointing out the government rules etc, and the management are stone faced saying no (while WFH....)


It's just a lack of trust, pure and simple - they think you are dossing.

My wife has had issues with her manager recently, she works for a big company and all they talk about is flexible working etc, how manager needs to whatever they can to help people out with flexibility.

In this case it was start and finish an hour earlier, when she is on secondment to a phone rule which the new hours cover and it's just literally being told "My first instinct is No, so I'll stick with that".

All these big companies, have these big fancy policies to show how great they are but when push comes to shove there is a level of manager who just can't see it and don't enact it. Mainly because they are normally on the road and prefer to be out rather than working from home themselves.

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 08:36 - Dec 24 with 1655 viewsitfcjoe

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 08:22 - Dec 24 by Churchman

People do surprise me. A close friend of mine is a primary career for his very frail dad who he lives next door to him here in Kent. He also has a very responsible job and is by no means stupid. He has been badgering me to go to his for a Stella or two and will be seeing his son and partner as planned over Christmas. A happy go lucky character, his view is ‘ah it’ll be ok’. But it isn’t ok. If this virus gets to his dad, he will die. That would be one heck of a thing for my friend to live with if it were to happen and it turned out he was the cause, so why not modify ones plans until things improve? They will in time.

As it goes, I will not be seeing my elderly dad for the moment and I certainly won’t be responsible for potentially carrying any virus into my mate’s house or quite frankly catching anything off him. I know he’s not happy about it but there it is, he knows my views.

This is rather a long winded way of saying that I believe that people have responsibilities to themselves but also to others and thinking of those currently in Tier 2 etc, don’t necessarily have to wait for government to tell them what to do. Nobody loves getting out and enjoying a beer / a bit of nose bag more than me. But C-19 is has no respect for Tiers, rules or boundaries and while risk can never be eliminated, it can be reduced.


I'll be seeing my parents, but then work with my Dad and see them regularly and my Mum does a day of childcare a week still for us so we are effectively one bubble.

My parents are only 60 though, so not exactly elderly. My sister's in-laws are older and not as healthy, so no one from our bubble is seeing her, we've done Xmas with my in laws when we could.

I personally don't feel as though I'm making particularly big sacrifices, so difficult to preach to others about it.

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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 09:50 - Dec 24 with 1557 viewsMonkeyAlan

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:22 - Dec 24 by jeera

No union by the sound of it?

I would be tempted to speak to someone in authority outside of the firm if you can get away with it, as in, I can understand you may feel your job would be under threat if 'caught'.

Caught's the wrong word of course, but you know what I mean.

It's not acceptable. You or co-workers may have vulnerable people at home/in their lives who they want to protect. The firm have a duty of care and aren't keeping their side of things.

There must be legislation but I won't pretend to know where to find it.

No HR department at the company?


Trouble is he isn't alone. Where l work they aren't interested in the work force. They want us there, end of. I've friends in the same boat at their firms. And there must be thousands in similar positions up and down the country.
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Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 09:59 - Dec 24 with 1548 viewsChurchman

Nice for new tier 4s to have a few days notice on 00:22 - Dec 24 by jeera

No union by the sound of it?

I would be tempted to speak to someone in authority outside of the firm if you can get away with it, as in, I can understand you may feel your job would be under threat if 'caught'.

Caught's the wrong word of course, but you know what I mean.

It's not acceptable. You or co-workers may have vulnerable people at home/in their lives who they want to protect. The firm have a duty of care and aren't keeping their side of things.

There must be legislation but I won't pretend to know where to find it.

No HR department at the company?


You are right. It’s not acceptable. I think the only real solution to employers like that is to move on if and when one can. Easier said than done, I know.
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