| Midfield 23:04 - Apr 17 with 4203 views | quad |
Dozzell doesn't ever score or assist and is lightweight.
Bishop looks good in patches but flatters to deceive and rarely scores or assists. Also lightweight and injury prone.
Downes has a poor disciplinary record and gets silly bookings / sendings off for petty things. Also rarely scores or assists. Too immature in my opinion to be captain.
So why do so many ITFC fans seem to defend them no matter what and think that Paul Cook should keep them for next season? If we are not scoring or creating chances what use are any of these players going to be to us?
Should there be an argument for getting rid of all of them?
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| Midfield on 23:07 - Apr 17 with 3705 views | J2BLUE |
There's little doubt they all get a lot of leeway but they are all young (ish) and undoubtedly good players. Dozzell in a genuinely good attacking team would be interesting.
With that said, if we got rid of all three for £6m (on Doz and Downes) I wouldn't be massively upset. |  |
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| Midfield on 23:11 - Apr 17 with 3677 views | chrismakin |
| Midfield on 23:07 - Apr 17 by J2BLUE |
There's little doubt they all get a lot of leeway but they are all young (ish) and undoubtedly good players. Dozzell in a genuinely good attacking team would be interesting.
With that said, if we got rid of all three for £6m (on Doz and Downes) I wouldn't be massively upset. |
I have kept quiet on the Dozzell front as there is alot of defence for him, of which I understand to a point, but the more I watch him, the more he is really starting to annoy me. Today was one of his better 'attacking' days, by that I mean, I actually saw him pick the ball up and ended up facing their goal outside the box... he didnt turn back, and it almost led to an opportunity, that in my book was a positive but it's been a long time coming imo.
His set pieces have been woeful lately, and despite seeming to have learnt his lesson with giving away freekicks, he's begun doing it again,
I really don't know which way to go with Dozzell.
1 minute I think he could do really well, but then sometimes I think " Garvan had a bright future" |  |
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| Midfield on 23:12 - Apr 17 with 3673 views | pistonbroke |
| Midfield on 23:07 - Apr 17 by J2BLUE |
There's little doubt they all get a lot of leeway but they are all young (ish) and undoubtedly good players. Dozzell in a genuinely good attacking team would be interesting.
With that said, if we got rid of all three for £6m (on Doz and Downes) I wouldn't be massively upset. |
6 m lol , they have been the mainstay of an ineffective midfield , none of them will be first choice next season | | | |
| Midfield on 23:23 - Apr 17 with 3636 views | quad |
I suppose the point that I'm trying to make is that although I don't doubt that all three are good players or at least potentially good players the fact is that none of them create anything and so surely keeping all of them in the team can't be an option for next season if we genuinely want to get promoted? We have zero goalscoring threat as we all know.
If I had to choose I would probably keep Downes, but even he I think is vastly overrated by a lot of Town fans and he needs to improve considerably based on this season's efforts. | | | |
| Midfield on 23:25 - Apr 17 with 3621 views | chrismakin |
| Midfield on 23:23 - Apr 17 by quad |
I suppose the point that I'm trying to make is that although I don't doubt that all three are good players or at least potentially good players the fact is that none of them create anything and so surely keeping all of them in the team can't be an option for next season if we genuinely want to get promoted? We have zero goalscoring threat as we all know.
If I had to choose I would probably keep Downes, but even he I think is vastly overrated by a lot of Town fans and he needs to improve considerably based on this season's efforts. |
If I watched town as a neutral fan, I would say all 3 are very easily replaceable. | |
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| Midfield on 23:28 - Apr 17 with 3607 views | pistonbroke |
| Midfield on 23:23 - Apr 17 by quad |
I suppose the point that I'm trying to make is that although I don't doubt that all three are good players or at least potentially good players the fact is that none of them create anything and so surely keeping all of them in the team can't be an option for next season if we genuinely want to get promoted? We have zero goalscoring threat as we all know.
If I had to choose I would probably keep Downes, but even he I think is vastly overrated by a lot of Town fans and he needs to improve considerably based on this season's efforts. |
All our youngsters are over rated , next season our midfield 2 as cook will play 4-2-3-1 will be Evans from Wigan and Nolan , it will be a new 3 in front of them with Norwood up top , new goalie and new left back | | | |
| Midfield on 23:29 - Apr 17 with 3605 views | quad |
| Midfield on 23:25 - Apr 17 by chrismakin |
If I watched town as a neutral fan, I would say all 3 are very easily replaceable. |
Fair enough, I thought I was missing something. I genuinely don't know whether Dozzell is meant to be an attacking midfielder or a holding midfielder. If he's supposed to be an attacking midfielder then his stats are horrific. | | | |
| Midfield on 23:35 - Apr 17 with 3582 views | chrismakin |
| Midfield on 23:29 - Apr 17 by quad |
Fair enough, I thought I was missing something. I genuinely don't know whether Dozzell is meant to be an attacking midfielder or a holding midfielder. If he's supposed to be an attacking midfielder then his stats are horrific. |
I couldn't tell you either, and it's maybe not his fault as he was out for a while before this season, but, according to him and of course where he played before he is a Defensive midfielder, which I just don't see, and no I'm not the england u20 coach, but I'd love to know what he did back then to be picked in that position. | |
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| Midfield on 23:46 - Apr 17 with 3563 views | quad |
| Midfield on 23:35 - Apr 17 by chrismakin |
I couldn't tell you either, and it's maybe not his fault as he was out for a while before this season, but, according to him and of course where he played before he is a Defensive midfielder, which I just don't see, and no I'm not the england u20 coach, but I'd love to know what he did back then to be picked in that position. |
A lot must be down to the coaching that several players seem to be neither one thing or the other. What is your opinion on Jackson? He looked a decent-ish player up front with Norwood last season but has been abysmal this season. I don't understand how he can have gone so far backwards, if it were up to you would you persist with him or get rid? | | | |
| Midfield on 23:58 - Apr 17 with 3505 views | MrTown |
I rate Flynn Downes massively, he has so many qualities to his game, one of the best CM in League 1. Would be crazy to want to get rid, of course if the right fee comes in I doubt we will be able to turn it down.
Dozzell and Bishop, technically ok, patchy footballers, very lightweight, can’t trust them to deliver anything. Not good enough and need better. [Post edited 17 Apr 2021 23:59]
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| Midfield on 00:02 - Apr 18 with 3490 views | chrismakin |
| Midfield on 23:46 - Apr 17 by quad |
A lot must be down to the coaching that several players seem to be neither one thing or the other. What is your opinion on Jackson? He looked a decent-ish player up front with Norwood last season but has been abysmal this season. I don't understand how he can have gone so far backwards, if it were up to you would you persist with him or get rid? |
Jackson is a typical striker who I could see scoring 20+ goals for Peterborough, we just don't play anywhere near his strenghs
He's not going to create his own opportunities, he needs to be put through on goal, or have balls whipped into the box, or even long direct balls overhit to allow him to utilise his speed. I feel we end up asking to much of Jackson as even when we get the ball to him, he's never just in on goal, he's always got take on someone first. Now if he was that good at getting past defenders with ease.... he wouldn't be playing league 1 football.
Would I keep him, no, but only because we won't be playing with 2 up front and anything but 2 won't work with him. | |
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| Midfield on 00:23 - Apr 18 with 3456 views | quad |
| Midfield on 00:02 - Apr 18 by chrismakin |
Jackson is a typical striker who I could see scoring 20+ goals for Peterborough, we just don't play anywhere near his strenghs
He's not going to create his own opportunities, he needs to be put through on goal, or have balls whipped into the box, or even long direct balls overhit to allow him to utilise his speed. I feel we end up asking to much of Jackson as even when we get the ball to him, he's never just in on goal, he's always got take on someone first. Now if he was that good at getting past defenders with ease.... he wouldn't be playing league 1 football.
Would I keep him, no, but only because we won't be playing with 2 up front and anything but 2 won't work with him. |
Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you've said about Jackson and not fitting into the formation Cook wants to play etc. I just think that he will be released ,which would be the right thing to do from Town's perspective, but I've got a funny feeling that he is going to have a very positive impact on whichever club he ends up at and that's going to be quite annoying. | | | |
| Midfield on 00:30 - Apr 18 with 3446 views | quad |
| Midfield on 23:58 - Apr 17 by MrTown |
I rate Flynn Downes massively, he has so many qualities to his game, one of the best CM in League 1. Would be crazy to want to get rid, of course if the right fee comes in I doubt we will be able to turn it down.
Dozzell and Bishop, technically ok, patchy footballers, very lightweight, can’t trust them to deliver anything. Not good enough and need better. [Post edited 17 Apr 2021 23:59]
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Agreed, I do rate Downes very highly as well. Not so much the other two.
Do you not think that Downes contribution in terms of goals and assists is also extremely poor though? Or is this just because of his role and the position he plays? | | | |
| Midfield on 01:11 - Apr 18 with 3400 views | Enigma_Blue |
"Dozzell doesn't ever score or assist and is lightweight."
You could basically say that about all out midfielders, and bare in mind whenever Dozzell has played this season he has usually been played in a deep defensive midfield position.
Downes seasons has been hampered by injury but we saw last season how effective he can be. Palace weren't interested in him for no reason.
Both are far from the finished article, but have the potential to be really good players and are worth persevering with for at least another couple of seasons. [Post edited 18 Apr 2021 1:39]
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| Midfield on 07:16 - Apr 18 with 3183 views | BryanPlug |
| Midfield on 23:29 - Apr 17 by quad |
Fair enough, I thought I was missing something. I genuinely don't know whether Dozzell is meant to be an attacking midfielder or a holding midfielder. If he's supposed to be an attacking midfielder then his stats are horrific. |
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| Midfield on 07:50 - Apr 18 with 3036 views | Swansea_Blue |
Holy doesn't score many either. |  |
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| Midfield on 07:53 - Apr 18 with 3016 views | WD19 |
| Midfield on 07:50 - Apr 18 by Swansea_Blue |
Holy doesn't score many either. |
He does tend to create quite a lot of chances though. |  | | |
| Midfield on 08:59 - Apr 18 with 2875 views | Chrisd |
I’m just repeating myself, but I’m still scratching my head what our midfield actually offers? They don’t score goals, don’t really get forward, don’t create chances and don’t really dominate the opposition. They aren’t young lads starting their careers. For all the hype, I’m expecting more from them, but they consistently flatter to deceive. [Post edited 18 Apr 2021 9:11]
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| Midfield on 09:03 - Apr 18 with 2831 views | pointofblue |
| Midfield on 23:28 - Apr 17 by pistonbroke |
All our youngsters are over rated , next season our midfield 2 as cook will play 4-2-3-1 will be Evans from Wigan and Nolan , it will be a new 3 in front of them with Norwood up top , new goalie and new left back |
Our youngsters are over-rated yet we’re going to play Nolan there? I’m hoping he’s going to be one of those who is let go, not given another chance after failing to deliver here over three seasons. | |
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| Midfield on 09:19 - Apr 18 with 2757 views | jayessess |
Is the argument not just patience? Bishop and Dozzell are 21-year-olds who are still developing, they aren't the finished article and they're already amongst our better players. If we aren't prepared to give them time to develop, what's the point of having an academy?
The reality is we're only very occasionally going to produce academy kids who are going to dominate adult football matches as soon as they come in. Even the ones who eventually make it as pros are going to take time and they're going to peak from 23/24 onwards, not at 21.
For me the real trouble is that our more experienced players take so little of the load.
(I can't offer much defence of Bishop, who is at his peak years and despite his obvious abilities still struggles to use them in ways that impact games. He should be leading us at this point and isn't) |  |
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| Midfield on 09:53 - Apr 18 with 2651 views | blueislander |
| Midfield on 09:19 - Apr 18 by jayessess |
Is the argument not just patience? Bishop and Dozzell are 21-year-olds who are still developing, they aren't the finished article and they're already amongst our better players. If we aren't prepared to give them time to develop, what's the point of having an academy?
The reality is we're only very occasionally going to produce academy kids who are going to dominate adult football matches as soon as they come in. Even the ones who eventually make it as pros are going to take time and they're going to peak from 23/24 onwards, not at 21.
For me the real trouble is that our more experienced players take so little of the load.
(I can't offer much defence of Bishop, who is at his peak years and despite his obvious abilities still struggles to use them in ways that impact games. He should be leading us at this point and isn't) |
I think that all three will be first choices next season. Cook will get another pure holding midfielder to play alongside Downes allowing both Dozzell and Bishop to play more freely. Dozzell is the best passer of the ball we have , and Bishop the best at running at defences.We currently do not have any strikers worth their salt. We paid a lot of money for Norwood and Jackson and they really aren’t League 1 standard. Norwood obviously has serious fitness issues to boot. | | | |
| Midfield on 10:10 - Apr 18 with 2611 views | pointofblue |
| Midfield on 09:19 - Apr 18 by jayessess |
Is the argument not just patience? Bishop and Dozzell are 21-year-olds who are still developing, they aren't the finished article and they're already amongst our better players. If we aren't prepared to give them time to develop, what's the point of having an academy?
The reality is we're only very occasionally going to produce academy kids who are going to dominate adult football matches as soon as they come in. Even the ones who eventually make it as pros are going to take time and they're going to peak from 23/24 onwards, not at 21.
For me the real trouble is that our more experienced players take so little of the load.
(I can't offer much defence of Bishop, who is at his peak years and despite his obvious abilities still struggles to use them in ways that impact games. He should be leading us at this point and isn't) |
I think Bishop shows promise in the number ten role when played there - the question is whether Cook trusts him enough to give him a summer of coaching and fitness training to make that position is own. I think it could go either way. | |
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| Midfield on 10:14 - Apr 18 with 2600 views | Steve_M |
| Midfield on 09:19 - Apr 18 by jayessess |
Is the argument not just patience? Bishop and Dozzell are 21-year-olds who are still developing, they aren't the finished article and they're already amongst our better players. If we aren't prepared to give them time to develop, what's the point of having an academy?
The reality is we're only very occasionally going to produce academy kids who are going to dominate adult football matches as soon as they come in. Even the ones who eventually make it as pros are going to take time and they're going to peak from 23/24 onwards, not at 21.
For me the real trouble is that our more experienced players take so little of the load.
(I can't offer much defence of Bishop, who is at his peak years and despite his obvious abilities still struggles to use them in ways that impact games. He should be leading us at this point and isn't) |
I think that given how much football Bishop had missed this is effectively one his second proper season. He started it really well too but hasn’t got going again since being kicked off the pitch against Shrewsbury in the Autumn. A low-risk gamble to see what stability can add to his game got next season I think.
Agree your general point, which I seem to have done a lot this week, people are judging young players as if they’ve stepped into a fully functioning team. It’s been a long way short of that for the last six months. Context really is important. |  |
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| Midfield on 10:16 - Apr 18 with 2595 views | skinnybob72 |
Dozzell frequently gets into a shooting position 20-25 yards out - and then never actually takes a shot. He continually tries to thread cute passes into the box which never seem to come off.
Downes is playing like a petulant child at times perhaps as a result of not getting a move when Palace were sniffing around.
Edwards doesn't seem to be able to cross the ball anymore, hits the first man more often than not, and he doesn't seem to have the pace to get beyond the opposition either.
Town are one of the lowest scoring teams in the league - a massive part of that is down to a complete lack of chances being created for the strikers - who as a result are lucky if they have 10 goals between them. If there was one area that needs improved it's the midfield. | | | |
| Midfield on 10:17 - Apr 18 with 2589 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Midfield on 10:10 - Apr 18 by pointofblue |
I think Bishop shows promise in the number ten role when played there - the question is whether Cook trusts him enough to give him a summer of coaching and fitness training to make that position is own. I think it could go either way. |
I’m sure PC sees what he needs in all three I am equally sure he can get them to shine in Lewgue 1 next season, and in Championship the season after.
He will work on the hidden barriers that are holding them back. |  |
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