By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
or is this an overreaction. Starting to get scary now especially with no end in sight. I can't see the people sitting on their hands hoping it rides itself out.
2
Riots in the autumn? on 19:20 - Jul 23 with 4625 views
I think that our 'Western' societies exist on a very thin veneer of law and order, with the vast bulk of the electorate pacified and anaesthetised by flaccid consumerism, TV and lately social media.
Meanwhile greedy, manipulative egomaniacs find more and more sophisticated ways to pile up 'wealth' that they don't have anything to do with once they've w*nked themselves silly about acquiring it in the first place.
On a finite planet this logically has to break at some point, just as with our environmental ticking time bomb, and whilst we probably no longer have any realistic chance of defusing the latter, we all know that it would theoretically be possible to redistribute that wealth much more fairly and evenly, at least in the short term before AGW does for us. If this doesn't happen voluntarily, I suspect those riots and worse will occur, and fairly soon.
If not for this energy crisis this winter, then perhaps for water or food somewhere in the world. But most of us will go on pretending that technology or the free market will fix everything.
I read that back, and it sounds like some doom and gloom nut to me, but it really is all pretty mainstream, reputable opinion now, isn't it? We have to wake up in so many ways, and now.
I think that unless things change for the better quickly, many small business (particularly in the retail and hospitality business) will go under before 2023.
Rapidly rising wages (not a bad thing and needed for many lower paid workers), increases in the NI rate, massive energy price increases and supply costs will put massive pressure on many smaller firms. Coupled with the difficulties in attracting new staff, and after all the stress, worry and financial costs incurred during and post Covid, I feel that many small business owners will finally admit defeat and throw in the towel.
So yes, I agree that the UK and several other Western countries could see widespread uprising in the late Summer / Autumn and also with a more diverse spectrum of protestors.
0
Riots in the autumn? on 20:07 - Jul 23 with 4438 views
I think it's hard to comprehend how bad and how damaging this government and their Brexit has been. Yet, still they take no responsibility for it and have stopped scraping together any sort of credit.
The transport system, the NHS, Police, the education system and pretty much every vital service has been neglected on their watch and it's going to catch us all up because COVID rather than being an excuse, should have been the warning we all needed.
They're talking about food banks and community support at work for the teachers now, not just the families which sounds snobby but is more a barometer of where we are headed.
People are not spending as much in recent weeks if you talk to small businesses round here so when that anecdotal stuff comes out in the figures we might already be seeing more closures, job losses and with it the coming strikes.
I'd like to think it's just a rough patch but something is seemingly brewing isn't it? Whether it'll be riots or something more akin to BLM with a sideshow of opportunists I'm not sure. Hopefully it'd be mass action not mass destruction and division this time.
Riots in the autumn? on 20:01 - Jul 23 by allezlesbleus
I think that unless things change for the better quickly, many small business (particularly in the retail and hospitality business) will go under before 2023.
Rapidly rising wages (not a bad thing and needed for many lower paid workers), increases in the NI rate, massive energy price increases and supply costs will put massive pressure on many smaller firms. Coupled with the difficulties in attracting new staff, and after all the stress, worry and financial costs incurred during and post Covid, I feel that many small business owners will finally admit defeat and throw in the towel.
So yes, I agree that the UK and several other Western countries could see widespread uprising in the late Summer / Autumn and also with a more diverse spectrum of protestors.
Gated 'communities', a drastically underfunded police force and a reluctant army won't be able to hold back the masses if the powers that be don't find a way to re-balance our society before it's too late.
All of us need fundamentally to stop worshipping money, and start valuing our happiness and that of other people above possessions. It's the only sane way to be.
Riots in the autumn? on 19:47 - Jul 23 by NthQldITFC
I think that our 'Western' societies exist on a very thin veneer of law and order, with the vast bulk of the electorate pacified and anaesthetised by flaccid consumerism, TV and lately social media.
Meanwhile greedy, manipulative egomaniacs find more and more sophisticated ways to pile up 'wealth' that they don't have anything to do with once they've w*nked themselves silly about acquiring it in the first place.
On a finite planet this logically has to break at some point, just as with our environmental ticking time bomb, and whilst we probably no longer have any realistic chance of defusing the latter, we all know that it would theoretically be possible to redistribute that wealth much more fairly and evenly, at least in the short term before AGW does for us. If this doesn't happen voluntarily, I suspect those riots and worse will occur, and fairly soon.
If not for this energy crisis this winter, then perhaps for water or food somewhere in the world. But most of us will go on pretending that technology or the free market will fix everything.
I read that back, and it sounds like some doom and gloom nut to me, but it really is all pretty mainstream, reputable opinion now, isn't it? We have to wake up in so many ways, and now.
The belief that the market will fix everything was demonstrated in western government's reaction to the financial crisis at the end of the 2000s. Despite the greed and ineptitude of the banki,ng system being the biggest factor in the crisis, instead of taking the opportunity to rein in the power of the banks, radically reform the system so that it works more equitably for all, they opted to bail them out and largely rebuild the same flawed system again. Corporate capitalism won once more. It's designed to have big winners whilst keeping a large enough pool of semi-satisfied participants that the system maintains sufficient support to survive. Now it seems a significant portion of the semi-satisfied are beginning to feel pi$$ed off at their lot. The growing number of the disgruntled could reach a critical mass but I doubt it. The system will mutate, throw them enough short term juicy bones (tax-cuts, pipe dreams and so called pay rises) that enough of them climb back into the pool of the semi satisfied and it will go on until the next crisis in 15-20 years. Rinse and Repeat.
bluescouser
8
Riots in the autumn? on 20:49 - Jul 23 with 4155 views
The belief that the market will fix everything was demonstrated in western government's reaction to the financial crisis at the end of the 2000s. Despite the greed and ineptitude of the banki,ng system being the biggest factor in the crisis, instead of taking the opportunity to rein in the power of the banks, radically reform the system so that it works more equitably for all, they opted to bail them out and largely rebuild the same flawed system again. Corporate capitalism won once more. It's designed to have big winners whilst keeping a large enough pool of semi-satisfied participants that the system maintains sufficient support to survive. Now it seems a significant portion of the semi-satisfied are beginning to feel pi$$ed off at their lot. The growing number of the disgruntled could reach a critical mass but I doubt it. The system will mutate, throw them enough short term juicy bones (tax-cuts, pipe dreams and so called pay rises) that enough of them climb back into the pool of the semi satisfied and it will go on until the next crisis in 15-20 years. Rinse and Repeat.
Probably, but the 'external' pressures on the system are building up so much that it's not so easy to tweak it to keep just enough people happy for very long before the next systematic failure occurs.
By 'external' I mean resources, pollution and the big one, which of course are not really external at all, even if capitalism likes to think they are.
I think your 15-20 year bust|bribe cycle, whilst being depressing in itself, is actually way too optimistic in terms of the timescale.
Riots in the autumn? on 20:52 - Jul 23 by NthQldITFC
Probably, but the 'external' pressures on the system are building up so much that it's not so easy to tweak it to keep just enough people happy for very long before the next systematic failure occurs.
By 'external' I mean resources, pollution and the big one, which of course are not really external at all, even if capitalism likes to think they are.
I think your 15-20 year bust|bribe cycle, whilst being depressing in itself, is actually way too optimistic in terms of the timescale.
My old fella (God rest his soul) always predicted that the next World War, and with it the likely end of humanity, would be over water. He was repulsed when Thatcher decided to sell off to the private sector our most valuable and fundamental asset.
bluescouser
4
Riots in the autumn? on 22:19 - Jul 23 with 3790 views
This Tory government is preparing for this very scenario. Remember that they passed the 'Police and Crime Bill' and that gave police forces the power to stop protests. They've just passed a bill to allow agency workers to take strikers jobs. Under EU law this was illegal. It was passed as a SI (statutory Instrument) which means it was never debated in Parliament. They will use SI to pass other legislation under the radar and the right-wing media won't publicise it. The right-wing media has been 'othering' for years and they will demonise anyone who is disobedient in not paying their bills. I believe Martin Lewis is right when he says that winter/xmas will be decision time for millions of people. Will the soundbite be 'We must dissent'?
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
Riots in the autumn? on 22:19 - Jul 23 by Oldsmoker
This Tory government is preparing for this very scenario. Remember that they passed the 'Police and Crime Bill' and that gave police forces the power to stop protests. They've just passed a bill to allow agency workers to take strikers jobs. Under EU law this was illegal. It was passed as a SI (statutory Instrument) which means it was never debated in Parliament. They will use SI to pass other legislation under the radar and the right-wing media won't publicise it. The right-wing media has been 'othering' for years and they will demonise anyone who is disobedient in not paying their bills. I believe Martin Lewis is right when he says that winter/xmas will be decision time for millions of people. Will the soundbite be 'We must dissent'?
Riots in the autumn? on 22:19 - Jul 23 by Oldsmoker
This Tory government is preparing for this very scenario. Remember that they passed the 'Police and Crime Bill' and that gave police forces the power to stop protests. They've just passed a bill to allow agency workers to take strikers jobs. Under EU law this was illegal. It was passed as a SI (statutory Instrument) which means it was never debated in Parliament. They will use SI to pass other legislation under the radar and the right-wing media won't publicise it. The right-wing media has been 'othering' for years and they will demonise anyone who is disobedient in not paying their bills. I believe Martin Lewis is right when he says that winter/xmas will be decision time for millions of people. Will the soundbite be 'We must dissent'?
Riots in the autumn? on 19:47 - Jul 23 by NthQldITFC
I think that our 'Western' societies exist on a very thin veneer of law and order, with the vast bulk of the electorate pacified and anaesthetised by flaccid consumerism, TV and lately social media.
Meanwhile greedy, manipulative egomaniacs find more and more sophisticated ways to pile up 'wealth' that they don't have anything to do with once they've w*nked themselves silly about acquiring it in the first place.
On a finite planet this logically has to break at some point, just as with our environmental ticking time bomb, and whilst we probably no longer have any realistic chance of defusing the latter, we all know that it would theoretically be possible to redistribute that wealth much more fairly and evenly, at least in the short term before AGW does for us. If this doesn't happen voluntarily, I suspect those riots and worse will occur, and fairly soon.
If not for this energy crisis this winter, then perhaps for water or food somewhere in the world. But most of us will go on pretending that technology or the free market will fix everything.
I read that back, and it sounds like some doom and gloom nut to me, but it really is all pretty mainstream, reputable opinion now, isn't it? We have to wake up in so many ways, and now.
Top notch post
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
There has been an ongoing pattern of civil unrest every 10-12 years (approximately) and the last time we saw anything significant was 2011 so we’re are certainly due in the very near future
0
Riots in the autumn? on 00:11 - Jul 24 with 3490 views
Riots in the autumn? on 20:01 - Jul 23 by allezlesbleus
I think that unless things change for the better quickly, many small business (particularly in the retail and hospitality business) will go under before 2023.
Rapidly rising wages (not a bad thing and needed for many lower paid workers), increases in the NI rate, massive energy price increases and supply costs will put massive pressure on many smaller firms. Coupled with the difficulties in attracting new staff, and after all the stress, worry and financial costs incurred during and post Covid, I feel that many small business owners will finally admit defeat and throw in the towel.
So yes, I agree that the UK and several other Western countries could see widespread uprising in the late Summer / Autumn and also with a more diverse spectrum of protestors.
6.5% of SMEs went out of business in 20-21 according to the Federation of Small Businesses. The previous record cut within their records (going back to at least 2000) was 0.5%. So not good signs at all.
Brexit, Covid, price rises… They’re getting hammered from all angles.
Riots in the autumn? on 22:19 - Jul 23 by Oldsmoker
This Tory government is preparing for this very scenario. Remember that they passed the 'Police and Crime Bill' and that gave police forces the power to stop protests. They've just passed a bill to allow agency workers to take strikers jobs. Under EU law this was illegal. It was passed as a SI (statutory Instrument) which means it was never debated in Parliament. They will use SI to pass other legislation under the radar and the right-wing media won't publicise it. The right-wing media has been 'othering' for years and they will demonise anyone who is disobedient in not paying their bills. I believe Martin Lewis is right when he says that winter/xmas will be decision time for millions of people. Will the soundbite be 'We must dissent'?
This is the most important post on the thread. It’s frightening what they’ve done and I don’t think enough people realise it. Just look at how they can now hound that fella who campaigns outside Parliament. Image how hard they’ll come down on any mass disobedience.
Riots in the autumn? on 00:11 - Jul 24 by Swansea_Blue
6.5% of SMEs went out of business in 20-21 according to the Federation of Small Businesses. The previous record cut within their records (going back to at least 2000) was 0.5%. So not good signs at all.
Brexit, Covid, price rises… They’re getting hammered from all angles.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2022 0:12]
I own a relatively new very small business that has grown rapidly in the last 4 years....until now.
This time last year I was concerned if I would go over the VAT threshold and if I should gear the business to to be VAT registered.
Now worrying about the VAT threshold is a luxury I wish I still had. We are looking at £15k - £25K less turnover in this financial year compared to last if current trends continue.
1
Riots in the autumn? on 03:11 - Jul 24 with 3254 views
The belief that the market will fix everything was demonstrated in western government's reaction to the financial crisis at the end of the 2000s. Despite the greed and ineptitude of the banki,ng system being the biggest factor in the crisis, instead of taking the opportunity to rein in the power of the banks, radically reform the system so that it works more equitably for all, they opted to bail them out and largely rebuild the same flawed system again. Corporate capitalism won once more. It's designed to have big winners whilst keeping a large enough pool of semi-satisfied participants that the system maintains sufficient support to survive. Now it seems a significant portion of the semi-satisfied are beginning to feel pi$$ed off at their lot. The growing number of the disgruntled could reach a critical mass but I doubt it. The system will mutate, throw them enough short term juicy bones (tax-cuts, pipe dreams and so called pay rises) that enough of them climb back into the pool of the semi satisfied and it will go on until the next crisis in 15-20 years. Rinse and Repeat.
And what’s your magical answer?
Look at the debt ratio to GDP In 2008 compared to now after Covid, so there’s no lifeboat this time. That said there isn’t the same amount of bad personal debt out there either. Despite horrible practices in the financial system back then, they really had no choice but to bail out AIG in the end. Considering how bad things got in 2008, the decade that followed shows that the corporate capitalism can fairly quickly rebound and provide opportunity and growth.
Is anyone particularly surprised about all this now though? Governments have been printing money for the best part of two years and paying people who were unable to work during restrictions. You can’t just turn the tap off and lights back on all of a sudden everything goes back to normal.
Elements of the economy became very over stimulated during Covid, at least over here, the fed are happy to crash assets as inflation just hit a ridiculous 9%. The stock market is a pretty clear example and early indicator of what’s going on.
I’m curious to see when the job market will start taking hits. For the last five years start up companies have been paying young grads ridiculous wages when they weren’t making any money themselves. Speculative investing isn’t going to happen with these interests rates, so I do think we will see companies turn to a profit and not growth mindset. A lot of the pandemic darlings are already annoucing layoffs.
Back to the original point, in terms of energy costs in Europe, it’s not just Britain facing these issues, at least from my understanding and yes the UK is due for a bit of old fashioned unrest.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2022 3:32]
0
Riots in the autumn? on 07:56 - Jul 24 with 3036 views
There has been an ongoing pattern of civil unrest every 10-12 years (approximately) and the last time we saw anything significant was 2011 so we’re are certainly due in the very near future
Interesting post
I was thinking something similar; popular dissatifaction coupled with warm summer evenings
Is there any correlation between riots and the World Cup/ Euro timings? Is there less incentive to riot if England are doing well in the football?
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
