| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team 10:10 - May 23 with 5257 views | jayessess |
With all the chat about Summer recruitment, I thought I'd look into how the 4 play-off teams from this season went about putting together their 10 key players (by minutes played). Think this is a good measure for us, none of the four have been in the Premier League for a while, so no parachute payments. Three of the four had been in League One relatively recently too.
Luton
The poorest/smallest of the 4 clubs, Luton's recruitment pool does and doesn't reflect that.
1 loan (from Nottingham Forest)
1 player signed before they were promoted to the Championship
3 free transfers (1 fringe player at another Championship team, 1 regular in a relegated Championship team, 1 regular in a mid-table League 1 team)
but quite a lot of fees paid - 5 (3 small fees, 2 for fringe players at Championship clubs, 1 for a regular at a League 2 club, then 2 larger fees for a regular at a relegated Championship club, the other to a mid-sized SPL team)
Luton's recruitment pool is, if anything, generally from similar places to our League One recruitment (at times, a bit lower status than ours in truth).
Middlesbrough
The richest of the four, much more stable in the Championship, so their key players often involved significant fees, their loans come from higher status clubs, their key players were accumulated over a longer period of time.
2 loans (Wolves and Man City)
2 frees (regulars from other Championship clubs whose contracts had expired)
2 academy products
4 fees paid (all relatively big, for overseas players from the MLS and the Greek SL, for regulars at other Championship teams)
The only one of the four that really bought players that were already excelling at this level.
Coventry
Coventry's recruitment resembles Luton's, given similar resources. Although they seem to have looked up when Luton looked down more often.
2 loans (Manchester City and Nottingham Forest)
3 players signed pre-Championship
1 free (a fringe player at another Championship team)
1 academy product
3 fees paid (1 modest, for a released Big 6 academy graduate, 2 big fees, to a small Eredivisie club and the other for a player discarded by a mid-level Premier League team).
So, like us, more interested in discarded players from the level above.
Sunderland
Sunderland is short and sweet, because almost all their key players were mainstays in League One.
6 players signed pre-Championship
1 loan (from Manchester United)
2 academy products
1 big fee paid (to make a loan from Tottenham permanent)
Gives us reason to be relatively confident some of our players can step up.
So, the lesson is either (a) sign lower league players, players discarded by other Championship teams and players leaving relegated sides (b) pay lots of big fees to build up a good squad over multiple seasons (c) Pay a few fees for overseas players or players discarded by Premier League team (d) don't sign anyone, trust the players you have
[Post edited 23 May 2023 11:23]
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 23:12 - May 23 with 4819 views | PioneerBlue |
More than one way to skin a cat (apologies cat owners - where does this saying even come from?). Good background and overview. Do you have their journey to league position over last 3 seasons to hand? It would help see if it’s one off or been building: [Post edited 23 May 2023 23:14]
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:10 - May 24 with 4581 views | jayessess |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 23:12 - May 23 by PioneerBlue |
More than one way to skin a cat (apologies cat owners - where does this saying even come from?). Good background and overview. Do you have their journey to league position over last 3 seasons to hand? It would help see if it’s one off or been building: [Post edited 23 May 2023 23:14]
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Two of the teams on a clear upward curve for half a decade.
Luton's goes: 2nd in L2, 1st in L1, 19th, 12th, 6th, 3rd (safe to say that's been building)
Coventry: 6th in L2, 8th in L1, 1st in L1, 16th, 12th, 5th (so, year on year improvements)
Two of them are teams you'd expect to be up there, given budget, who've had a good year.
Middlesbrough: 5th, 7th, 17th, 10th, 7th, 4th (generally top half, which is what you'd expect from one of the bigger teams in the division)
Sunderland: 24th in Champ, 5th in L1, 8th in L1, 4th in L1, 5th in L1, 4th (pretty out of the blue) | |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:52 - May 24 with 4474 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
Middlesbrough signed Akpom for around £2m and Coventry signed Gyokeres for £1m. Both went on to be the leading scorers with 28 & 21 goals respectively.
I'm hoping that Chaplin will have another strong season in front of goal, but recruiting a number 9 will be the most important business we do and this is proof that you don't need to spend millions (i.e Leicester supposedly quoting £5m for Hirst, Blackpool £4m for Yates..) to make it work if your recruitment can identify someone who's maybe dropped out of the limelight recently/playing abroad right now. |  |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:57 - May 24 with 4455 views | SheffordBlue |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:52 - May 24 by IPSWICHFANITFC |
Middlesbrough signed Akpom for around £2m and Coventry signed Gyokeres for £1m. Both went on to be the leading scorers with 28 & 21 goals respectively.
I'm hoping that Chaplin will have another strong season in front of goal, but recruiting a number 9 will be the most important business we do and this is proof that you don't need to spend millions (i.e Leicester supposedly quoting £5m for Hirst, Blackpool £4m for Yates..) to make it work if your recruitment can identify someone who's maybe dropped out of the limelight recently/playing abroad right now. |
With our chance creation statistics being so high (even from a league below) you would think that we would be an attractive prospect for the right kind of striker. Really good opportunity that you'll get some great stats in the coming season and put yourself in the shop window even if we don't go up. | |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 08:26 - May 24 with 4237 views | jayessess |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:52 - May 24 by IPSWICHFANITFC |
Middlesbrough signed Akpom for around £2m and Coventry signed Gyokeres for £1m. Both went on to be the leading scorers with 28 & 21 goals respectively.
I'm hoping that Chaplin will have another strong season in front of goal, but recruiting a number 9 will be the most important business we do and this is proof that you don't need to spend millions (i.e Leicester supposedly quoting £5m for Hirst, Blackpool £4m for Yates..) to make it work if your recruitment can identify someone who's maybe dropped out of the limelight recently/playing abroad right now. |
I think those valuations of Yates and Hirst look pretty silly when you put them next to the kind of fees Championship teams have actually paid for very good forwards over the last couple of years.
The biggest fee any non-parachute payment club paid for a player last season was Marcus Forss at £3.2m. That was off the back of a very solid contribution in Brentford's promotion season aged 22. The next most expensive Carlton Morris at £2m, who also already had a decent track record at Championship level.
Hirst carries the risk that his spells at Rotherham and Blackburn reflect his fundamental level. Anything more than £2m and Leicester would be taking us for a ride. [Post edited 24 May 2023 10:47]
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 09:59 - May 24 with 4017 views | RobTheMonk |
Hope we can unearth a gem like Leicester did with Mahrez. His trajectory has been insane. |  | | |
| Good work! interesting... on 10:04 - May 24 with 4004 views | unstableblue |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:10 - May 24 by jayessess |
Two of the teams on a clear upward curve for half a decade.
Luton's goes: 2nd in L2, 1st in L1, 19th, 12th, 6th, 3rd (safe to say that's been building)
Coventry: 6th in L2, 8th in L1, 1st in L1, 16th, 12th, 5th (so, year on year improvements)
Two of them are teams you'd expect to be up there, given budget, who've had a good year.
Middlesbrough: 5th, 7th, 17th, 10th, 7th, 4th (generally top half, which is what you'd expect from one of the bigger teams in the division)
Sunderland: 24th in Champ, 5th in L1, 8th in L1, 4th in L1, 5th in L1, 4th (pretty out of the blue) |
I'm thinking we'll be more akin to Sunderland with some good summer transfer business
Per your original post two high quality premier loans might fit the bill
Think the main striker we get will determine our position... see all teams below! |  |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 10:59 - May 24 with 3883 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:57 - May 24 by SheffordBlue |
With our chance creation statistics being so high (even from a league below) you would think that we would be an attractive prospect for the right kind of striker. Really good opportunity that you'll get some great stats in the coming season and put yourself in the shop window even if we don't go up. |
Totally agree. We won't be as dominant in the Championship, but we will still play the same way and create chances - definitely an attractive prospect for any striker we do approach. | |
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| Good work! interesting... on 11:02 - May 24 with 3871 views | jayessess |
| Good work! interesting... on 10:04 - May 24 by unstableblue |
I'm thinking we'll be more akin to Sunderland with some good summer transfer business
Per your original post two high quality premier loans might fit the bill
Think the main striker we get will determine our position... see all teams below! |
Interestingly Sunderland did actually sign a few players this Summer (Ballard, Dejaku, Alese, Bennette for fees) but only Clarke featured amongst their most used players.
A top striker definitely a feature of 3 of the teams (Morris for Luton, Akpom for Boro, Gyokeres for Coventry), although that might be a bit of a chicken/egg situation (good teams make chances, so their strikers score goals). | |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 11:05 - May 24 with 3863 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 08:26 - May 24 by jayessess |
I think those valuations of Yates and Hirst look pretty silly when you put them next to the kind of fees Championship teams have actually paid for very good forwards over the last couple of years.
The biggest fee any non-parachute payment club paid for a player last season was Marcus Forss at £3.2m. That was off the back of a very solid contribution in Brentford's promotion season aged 22. The next most expensive Carlton Morris at £2m, who also already had a decent track record at Championship level.
Hirst carries the risk that his spells at Rotherham and Blackburn reflect his fundamental level. Anything more than £2m and Leicester would be taking us for a ride. [Post edited 24 May 2023 10:47]
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The Yates figure surprised me. I do think his all round game is quite good though, but not sure you can demand £4m as now a League 1 side with a player going into the final year of his contract - though he did have a really good season in the Championship.
Forss is someone I want us to look at this summer but I don't think Boro would do a deal on the cheap and I don't want us to loan in a striker - there's no financial benefit for us long term.
I agree with the Hirst figure. No more than £2m. | |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 11:06 - May 24 with 3861 views | clive_baker |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 23:12 - May 23 by PioneerBlue |
More than one way to skin a cat (apologies cat owners - where does this saying even come from?). Good background and overview. Do you have their journey to league position over last 3 seasons to hand? It would help see if it’s one off or been building: [Post edited 23 May 2023 23:14]
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Kurt Zouma? These transfer links are becoming more ridiculous by the day |  |
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| Good work! interesting... on 11:10 - May 24 with 3845 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| Good work! interesting... on 11:02 - May 24 by jayessess |
Interestingly Sunderland did actually sign a few players this Summer (Ballard, Dejaku, Alese, Bennette for fees) but only Clarke featured amongst their most used players.
A top striker definitely a feature of 3 of the teams (Morris for Luton, Akpom for Boro, Gyokeres for Coventry), although that might be a bit of a chicken/egg situation (good teams make chances, so their strikers score goals). |
I'd argue that we've actually got a top finisher on our books in comparison to those names in Chaplin. He's a very natural finisher - bottom corner, left or right foot. As long as the big chances fall his way, then you'd expect him to finish.
For me, it's recruiting someone who can ease the pressure off him like Ladapo did this season.
I don't think Ladapo is the answer for the Championship, I'm not even sure he will be here but who knows. | |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 14:07 - May 24 with 3590 views | eireblue |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 23:12 - May 23 by PioneerBlue |
More than one way to skin a cat (apologies cat owners - where does this saying even come from?). Good background and overview. Do you have their journey to league position over last 3 seasons to hand? It would help see if it’s one off or been building: [Post edited 23 May 2023 23:14]
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https://grammarist.com/phrase/more-than-one-way-to-skin-a-cat/ |  | | |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 19:16 - May 24 with 3376 views | Vegtablue |
Great post jayessess.
Sunderland's an interesting case because 11 players in their First Team weren't there in 2021/22. Some of these were important players and others were on the periphery. They spent €2.3m on Ballard, €1.3m on Bennette, €1m on Ba, and €590K on Alese, in addition to €870K on ex-loanee Dajaku and the big fee on ex-loanee Clarke (plus four others signed for smaller undisclosed fees).
The only player signed last season who makes Sunderland's XI for appearances is Diallo (discounting Clarke), so this in no way detracts from your main point: "we can be reasonably confident..." their core players stepped up. The new arrivals made a combined 184 appearances, though, and I think it would be an oversight to conclude that they provide lesson d). Sunderland bolstered their squad and successful campaigns require plenty of depth. | | | |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 06:31 - May 25 with 3124 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Are you aware what has been happening at Ipswich in the last two years? 13 players signed last season. Nine out on loan. 21 signed the previous year? Players signed ipre-season discarded in January? Granted mercenaries come for the money, don’t care where it comes from and would be happy to have their contracts paid off - but surely even the most addled glory seeker must surely have a ‘signing ceiling’. Maybe the current bunch, most of whom are plenty good enough might be good enough for the Prem - let alone division 2 - if given a chance. | |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:27 - May 25 with 3073 views | tractorboy1978 |
If you include Burnley and Sheff Utd, a common denominator (well, for 5 of the 6 anyway) is a premium Premier League loan or two.
Burnley - Tella (Southampton) Harwood Bellis (Man City)
Sheff Utd - T Doyle (Man City) McAtee (Man City)
Coventry - C Doyle (Man City)
Boro - Archer (Villa) Ramsay (Villa)
Sunderland - Diallo (Man Utd)
Even Luton signed Nakamba in January who by all accounts was excellent over the second half of the season. | | | |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:58 - May 25 with 3025 views | Churchman |
Thanks for this. Interesting.
When I think of ITFCs recruitment approach in the last two years, the first year reflected the state of the club: chaotic. It was a result of Evans, takeover, timing, Cook’s lack of ability at this level, change.
McKenna’s first real transfer window was last summer. The approach then and in January was much more measured. It is quite clear that they’d recruited with competing in the Championship in mind. Looking at your analysis, the approach was predominantly our players rather than loans, as was expressed by MA and KM in interview some time back.
It is clear, with a professional recruitment team in place, that the club can look far and wide now and seek players that fit the club in playing, personality and attitude terms. It is noticeable what a nice bunch the players appear to be and how well they got on with each other. They appeared dedicated and committed.
I believe most of the work for a challenging Championship side has been done. Two or three players in, fringe players traded out. That means an approach similar to Sunderland’s. Evolution, not revolution. |  | | |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 11:14 - May 25 with 2651 views | jayessess |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 19:16 - May 24 by Vegtablue |
Great post jayessess.
Sunderland's an interesting case because 11 players in their First Team weren't there in 2021/22. Some of these were important players and others were on the periphery. They spent €2.3m on Ballard, €1.3m on Bennette, €1m on Ba, and €590K on Alese, in addition to €870K on ex-loanee Dajaku and the big fee on ex-loanee Clarke (plus four others signed for smaller undisclosed fees).
The only player signed last season who makes Sunderland's XI for appearances is Diallo (discounting Clarke), so this in no way detracts from your main point: "we can be reasonably confident..." their core players stepped up. The new arrivals made a combined 184 appearances, though, and I think it would be an oversight to conclude that they provide lesson d). Sunderland bolstered their squad and successful campaigns require plenty of depth. |
Interesting there's almost zero squad churn the other way - they lose a couple of loanees (Doyle, Broadhead), send Carl Winchester on loan, they let Aidan McGeady's contract expire, but that's about it.
Then it's 2 loans made permanent, 3 new loans, 4 proper new signings (think the other undisclosed ones are for the development squads?). 4 out, 7 in, basically. [Post edited 25 May 2023 11:38]
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 11:26 - May 25 with 2599 views | Herbivore |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 07:27 - May 25 by tractorboy1978 |
If you include Burnley and Sheff Utd, a common denominator (well, for 5 of the 6 anyway) is a premium Premier League loan or two.
Burnley - Tella (Southampton) Harwood Bellis (Man City)
Sheff Utd - T Doyle (Man City) McAtee (Man City)
Coventry - C Doyle (Man City)
Boro - Archer (Villa) Ramsay (Villa)
Sunderland - Diallo (Man Utd)
Even Luton signed Nakamba in January who by all accounts was excellent over the second half of the season. |
I thought Tella was mustard in the two games against us, real quality player. That level of quality will be beyond our means as a permanent signing in the Championship, so I completely agree that one or two real high end loan signings will be hugely beneficial to our chances next season. |  |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 11:35 - May 25 with 2560 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 11:26 - May 25 by Herbivore |
I thought Tella was mustard in the two games against us, real quality player. That level of quality will be beyond our means as a permanent signing in the Championship, so I completely agree that one or two real high end loan signings will be hugely beneficial to our chances next season. |
There is a handful of the premium loans that go out every season. You'd think McKenna will be a big draw for the top clubs with his background in developing young players, what he did last season with Davis in particular and the style of football we play. Obviously Ashton needs to make the numbers work too.
I think Rak-Sakyi could prove to be in the bracket above. [Post edited 25 May 2023 11:38]
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 14:54 - May 25 with 2361 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Are you aware what has been happening at Ipswich in the last two years? 13 players signed last season. Nine out on loan. 21 signed the previous year? Players signed ipre-season discarded in January? Granted mercenaries come for the money, don’t care where it comes from and would be happy to have their contracts paid off - but surely even the most addled glory seeker must surely have a ‘signing ceiling’. Maybe the current bunch, most of whom are plenty good enough might be good enough for the Prem - let alone division 2 - if given a chance. | |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 15:07 - May 25 with 2334 views | Herbivore |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 14:54 - May 25 by ElephantintheRoom |
Are you aware what has been happening at Ipswich in the last two years? 13 players signed last season. Nine out on loan. 21 signed the previous year? Players signed ipre-season discarded in January? Granted mercenaries come for the money, don’t care where it comes from and would be happy to have their contracts paid off - but surely even the most addled glory seeker must surely have a ‘signing ceiling’. Maybe the current bunch, most of whom are plenty good enough might be good enough for the Prem - let alone division 2 - if given a chance. |
Is there an echo in here? | |
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| Good work! interesting... on 15:13 - May 25 with 2294 views | itfcjoe |
| Good work! interesting... on 11:02 - May 24 by jayessess |
Interestingly Sunderland did actually sign a few players this Summer (Ballard, Dejaku, Alese, Bennette for fees) but only Clarke featured amongst their most used players.
A top striker definitely a feature of 3 of the teams (Morris for Luton, Akpom for Boro, Gyokeres for Coventry), although that might be a bit of a chicken/egg situation (good teams make chances, so their strikers score goals). |
Sunderland effectively recruited for years 2,3 and 4 in that league in age and profile of player - but lucked into the top 6 with 69 points |  |
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| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 15:40 - May 25 with 2194 views | Churchman |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 14:54 - May 25 by ElephantintheRoom |
Are you aware what has been happening at Ipswich in the last two years? 13 players signed last season. Nine out on loan. 21 signed the previous year? Players signed ipre-season discarded in January? Granted mercenaries come for the money, don’t care where it comes from and would be happy to have their contracts paid off - but surely even the most addled glory seeker must surely have a ‘signing ceiling’. Maybe the current bunch, most of whom are plenty good enough might be good enough for the Prem - let alone division 2 - if given a chance. |
You forgot the bit about the American debt peddlers. You’re slipping.
I hope you are more cheerful than this on your beloved WOTB Forum. | | | |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 16:36 - May 25 with 2076 views | Vegtablue |
| Recruiting Like a Play-off Team on 11:14 - May 25 by jayessess |
Interesting there's almost zero squad churn the other way - they lose a couple of loanees (Doyle, Broadhead), send Carl Winchester on loan, they let Aidan McGeady's contract expire, but that's about it.
Then it's 2 loans made permanent, 3 new loans, 4 proper new signings (think the other undisclosed ones are for the development squads?). 4 out, 7 in, basically. [Post edited 25 May 2023 11:38]
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There needed to be a bit of churn for the 11 new faces to fit in the First Team though. Sunderland kept 16 of the squad that won them promotion last season.
If Luongo and Aluko accept their offers, we move to 29 I think (presumptions: Aluko's offer is for a spot in the 25, Hayes is still with us and Humphreys is U21). Hirst would take us to 30 and isn't a new face, much like Sunderland's Clarke. 6 of the 30 are returning loans and we arguably have 1 more senior GK than required. Trimming here still leaves us holding onto 9 more of the L1 squad than Sunderland saw fit to finish their campaign with.
I don't mean to suggest Sunderland is the blueprint. I agree with Joe that their business looks to have been in preparation for a more gradual climb. Then our promotion season gives me optimism we have a stronger base to start from. 20 kept maybe, including Mass and Hirst. | | | |
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