| Creative Types... 14:29 - Sep 19 with 5835 views | Yaffle |
I recall there are a number of members working in the creative industries and I have a question that is probably far from simple but I would really appreciate some input. In short, how on earth do you choose a graphic designer and how do you 'value' their work? I've always worked for larger companies so any requirements like this have been dealt with by the in-house marketers. Now I'm seeing things from the SME perspective.
In short, I am looking to refresh/update the identity (logo in the main) of my employers business. The owners of the business would happily spend £200 outsourcing to India or £500 to 99designs as they don't really understand or value the work of a professional designer. I, however, understand the importance of good branding and identity but am finding it impossible to find the right level for us. A grown-up agency is out of our league and yet I've even had quotes ranging from £5k to £12k from freelancers to produce a new logo. I've also had quotes for £700 from smaller design companies so what on earth do you get for 10x even 15x your investment and can that ever be quantified or justified? I've never known such a broad range of costs for essentially the same thing, particularly when the opinion of the success or failure of the end product is entirely subjective.
Any help or advice welcome. Cheers. |  | | |  |
| Creative Types... on 14:39 - Sep 19 with 4353 views | footers |
If it's for an SME, and you've got a decent eye for these things, I'd suggest a freelance site like People Per Hour or Upwork. You just need to write a brief, set a rough budget and wait for some proposals. You'll get to see their portfolios and can judge for yourself. Most won't quote anywhere near those prices, mind, far cheaper. That at least gives you the option to go with a few and take your pick.
Have used them quite a bit for my own various websites and there really are some great people out there. All depends whether you're good at writing briefs/giving art direction. |  |
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| Creative Types... on 14:41 - Sep 19 with 4345 views | footers |
| Creative Types... on 14:39 - Sep 19 by footers |
If it's for an SME, and you've got a decent eye for these things, I'd suggest a freelance site like People Per Hour or Upwork. You just need to write a brief, set a rough budget and wait for some proposals. You'll get to see their portfolios and can judge for yourself. Most won't quote anywhere near those prices, mind, far cheaper. That at least gives you the option to go with a few and take your pick.
Have used them quite a bit for my own various websites and there really are some great people out there. All depends whether you're good at writing briefs/giving art direction. |
BTW, re: briefs. 'Make it pop' is not an acceptable criterion. | |
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| Creative Types... on 14:51 - Sep 19 with 4316 views | Yaffle |
| Creative Types... on 14:41 - Sep 19 by footers |
BTW, re: briefs. 'Make it pop' is not an acceptable criterion. |
Thanks for the input, I'll check out the websites you suggested.
My brief is detailed and comprehensive and my eye is pretty good. The challenge with this is that the company has been established for decades and it needs to be done correctly. Since posting I've read this article ( https://www.creativereview.co.uk/the-25-logo/ ) which provides an insight to the designers perspective on the problem. They say what they ended up with isn't any good (but don't explain why) but could you get something 1000x better by spending £25k. I doubt it and how do you measure that anyway. | | | |
| Creative Types... on 14:58 - Sep 19 with 4305 views | Mookamoo |
Jobbing Freelancer here.
Depends to the level you want to go into. I do projects that range from 'I want a nice logo' to a full brand review including things like competitor research, strategic positioning etc. Depends on how much of the process you need a third party to undertake.
The idea is the end result isn't entirely subjective, it comes from working out the audience, company ethos etc, so there is some rationale behind the identity. |  | | |
| Creative Types... on 15:07 - Sep 19 with 4275 views | Superfrans |
It's a difficult decision. When we rebranded six years ago, I had one of our directors suggesting we should use a branding & design agency for a fee of about £20,000 and another saying her "designer" could knock off 30/40 logos for £300.
In practice, we went with something in the middle, so paid around £10,000 and got a cracking brand identity and a proper vision for the brand, spanning online, promotional /advertising materials etc etc.
It really depends on the kind of company you are, how important brand identity is to you. If you're just looking for a logo, a few hundred quid will probably do - if you're looking for a brand identity, including how it rolls out across multiple uses, it'll be a few grand.
Best thing is to talk to some agencies, get them to pitch and make sure they spell out what the various deliverables will be - in other words, what you get for your money. |  |
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| on 15:13 - Sep 19 with 4258 views | _ |
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| Creative Types... on 15:18 - Sep 19 with 4244 views | Yaffle |
| Creative Types... on 15:07 - Sep 19 by Superfrans |
It's a difficult decision. When we rebranded six years ago, I had one of our directors suggesting we should use a branding & design agency for a fee of about £20,000 and another saying her "designer" could knock off 30/40 logos for £300.
In practice, we went with something in the middle, so paid around £10,000 and got a cracking brand identity and a proper vision for the brand, spanning online, promotional /advertising materials etc etc.
It really depends on the kind of company you are, how important brand identity is to you. If you're just looking for a logo, a few hundred quid will probably do - if you're looking for a brand identity, including how it rolls out across multiple uses, it'll be a few grand.
Best thing is to talk to some agencies, get them to pitch and make sure they spell out what the various deliverables will be - in other words, what you get for your money. |
Your first paragraph pretty nails my challenge. What size of business were you when you did this?
I believe 'brand and identity' is very important and has been holding the business back. Unfortunately, the directors don't understand this. | | | |
| Creative Types... on 15:19 - Sep 19 with 4228 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Creative Types... on 15:07 - Sep 19 by Superfrans |
It's a difficult decision. When we rebranded six years ago, I had one of our directors suggesting we should use a branding & design agency for a fee of about £20,000 and another saying her "designer" could knock off 30/40 logos for £300.
In practice, we went with something in the middle, so paid around £10,000 and got a cracking brand identity and a proper vision for the brand, spanning online, promotional /advertising materials etc etc.
It really depends on the kind of company you are, how important brand identity is to you. If you're just looking for a logo, a few hundred quid will probably do - if you're looking for a brand identity, including how it rolls out across multiple uses, it'll be a few grand.
Best thing is to talk to some agencies, get them to pitch and make sure they spell out what the various deliverables will be - in other words, what you get for your money. |
This is good.
I'd add brand visibility to that. If the logo isn't going to be seen outside very specific / limited access locations, it's not worth the multiple 1000s of pounds worth of investment. |  |
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| Creative Types... on 15:25 - Sep 19 with 4210 views | footers |
| Creative Types... on 15:18 - Sep 19 by Yaffle |
Your first paragraph pretty nails my challenge. What size of business were you when you did this?
I believe 'brand and identity' is very important and has been holding the business back. Unfortunately, the directors don't understand this. |
It's a bit like convincing people 20 years ago that the internet would be a big deal. An ex-colleague used to work for Design Week magazine, and a lot of their research found (unsurprisingly) that decent branding is an extremely valuable aspect to any business. A lot of directors still think of it as being a fluffy 'optional extra' that won't add much. In fact, it's the complete opposite.
You wouldn't go to an interview in shorts and a wifebeater, so why design your website in a similar way? | |
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| Creative Types... on 15:29 - Sep 19 with 4190 views | Yaffle |
Thank you, that is appreciated. I may drop you a line later. | | | |
| Creative Types... on 15:30 - Sep 19 with 4188 views | Yaffle |
| Creative Types... on 15:25 - Sep 19 by footers |
It's a bit like convincing people 20 years ago that the internet would be a big deal. An ex-colleague used to work for Design Week magazine, and a lot of their research found (unsurprisingly) that decent branding is an extremely valuable aspect to any business. A lot of directors still think of it as being a fluffy 'optional extra' that won't add much. In fact, it's the complete opposite.
You wouldn't go to an interview in shorts and a wifebeater, so why design your website in a similar way? |
This all day long! | | | |
| Creative Types... on 15:30 - Sep 19 with 4186 views | factual_blue |
How much are you willing to pay for a plate of sausages and mash? |  |
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| on 15:31 - Sep 19 with 4183 views | _ |
| Creative Types... on 15:29 - Sep 19 by Yaffle |
Thank you, that is appreciated. I may drop you a line later. |
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| Creative Types... on 15:34 - Sep 19 with 4168 views | Darth_Koont |
| Creative Types... on 15:18 - Sep 19 by Yaffle |
Your first paragraph pretty nails my challenge. What size of business were you when you did this?
I believe 'brand and identity' is very important and has been holding the business back. Unfortunately, the directors don't understand this. |
In my experience, most bad and/or expensive branding projects come from the company having a very splintered view of who they are and what's important — even among themselves on the branding "team".
I'd suggest you make sure you have a very clear and communicable strategy for the long-term development of the business (your brand should at least survive the next 10 years). It's invariably what people call a vision or mission statement but it has to be short and very simple.
If you can do that work beforehand then a good graphic designer will have enough to come in for a chat, ask the right questions and start building an idea of what you want to express. And being based on the statement that you've already agreed amongst yourselves, it should mean a far simpler, less expensive process with a much better and happier result too.
And as has been pointed out, a good designer knows what works so really shouldn't be quite the subjective process most people assume. |  |
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| Creative Types... on 15:38 - Sep 19 with 4158 views | factual_blue |
Does your friend know the difference between 'companies' and 'company's'?
I for oh wouldn't recommend somebody who appears not to.  | |
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| on 15:39 - Sep 19 with 4155 views | _ |
| Creative Types... on 15:38 - Sep 19 by factual_blue |
Does your friend know the difference between 'companies' and 'company's'?
I for oh wouldn't recommend somebody who appears not to. |
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| Creative Types... on 15:45 - Sep 19 with 4146 views | factual_blue |
I didn't realise the definition of dyslexia included a poor grasp of basic grammar. | |
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| Creative Types... on 15:48 - Sep 19 with 4140 views | eireblue |
| Creative Types... on 15:38 - Sep 19 by factual_blue |
Does your friend know the difference between 'companies' and 'company's'?
I for oh wouldn't recommend somebody who appears not to. |
oh? |  | | |
| on 15:51 - Sep 19 with 4128 views | _ |
| Creative Types... on 15:45 - Sep 19 by factual_blue |
I didn't realise the definition of dyslexia included a poor grasp of basic grammar. |
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| Creative Types... on 15:53 - Sep 19 with 4124 views | Yaffle |
| Creative Types... on 15:34 - Sep 19 by Darth_Koont |
In my experience, most bad and/or expensive branding projects come from the company having a very splintered view of who they are and what's important — even among themselves on the branding "team".
I'd suggest you make sure you have a very clear and communicable strategy for the long-term development of the business (your brand should at least survive the next 10 years). It's invariably what people call a vision or mission statement but it has to be short and very simple.
If you can do that work beforehand then a good graphic designer will have enough to come in for a chat, ask the right questions and start building an idea of what you want to express. And being based on the statement that you've already agreed amongst yourselves, it should mean a far simpler, less expensive process with a much better and happier result too.
And as has been pointed out, a good designer knows what works so really shouldn't be quite the subjective process most people assume. |
I agree with everything you posted. I have ensured we have a clear vision for the business internally and the challenge now is for that to be translated into what our clients and prospects see.
Again whilst I agree that if you get the positioning right the result should follow, my issue is, what is the right and fair price to pay for this and do you really get a better product for paying more. My suspicion is that there is a sweet spot, beyond which there are lines of (rapidly) diminsihing returns. | | | |
| Creative Types... on 16:43 - Sep 19 with 4080 views | Darth_Koont |
| Creative Types... on 15:53 - Sep 19 by Yaffle |
I agree with everything you posted. I have ensured we have a clear vision for the business internally and the challenge now is for that to be translated into what our clients and prospects see.
Again whilst I agree that if you get the positioning right the result should follow, my issue is, what is the right and fair price to pay for this and do you really get a better product for paying more. My suspicion is that there is a sweet spot, beyond which there are lines of (rapidly) diminsihing returns. |
You're right re: the sweet spot. Again, in my experience, too expensive means they're trying to pad out the billing (or overcomplicate the process) but too cheap and you get a template that may look good but probably isn't as strong over time and used in different media.
I'd see it as a negotiation with the designer. What's their process and what do they need to be confident of a good job and a good final design? If you can work a mutually beneficial process then most designers will go for that. And it saves your internal time too. There are a lot of hidden costs and unexplored value with cheap design.
It's a minefield so good to go on personal recommendations and then what your gut instincts say about the person. If they have a great portfolio and a reasonable rate but they don't show any interest in your business and/or you think working together may be a challenge - then go for someone else. [Post edited 19 Sep 2017 16:44]
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| Creative Types... on 16:47 - Sep 19 with 4065 views | factual_blue |
I'm too old. Everybody keeps telling me so.
Apologies for any offence. None was intended. | |
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| Creative Types... on 16:47 - Sep 19 with 4065 views | hype313 |
I often think, why is dyslexic so hard to spell? |  |
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| Creative Types... on 16:51 - Sep 19 with 4052 views | Superfrans |
| Creative Types... on 15:18 - Sep 19 by Yaffle |
Your first paragraph pretty nails my challenge. What size of business were you when you did this?
I believe 'brand and identity' is very important and has been holding the business back. Unfortunately, the directors don't understand this. |
We're a relatively small company (less than £10m turnover, more than £2/3m), but have a consumer-facing profile, so brand identity and consistency was v important to us. | |
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| on 16:51 - Sep 19 with 4051 views | _ |
| Creative Types... on 16:47 - Sep 19 by factual_blue |
I'm too old. Everybody keeps telling me so.
Apologies for any offence. None was intended. |
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