| The Coronavirus Death Figures 09:25 - Apr 2 with 1508 views | NotSure |
Is it showing how many people have "died from" or "died with" coronavirus. Because this is a very important distinction.
The 13 year old boy who died actually died of a heart attack, although he has also tested positive for Covid19. If I got hit by a car tomorrow and they found I also had it would I join the Covid19 deaths? |  | | |  |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:31 - Apr 2 with 1481 views | NthQldITFC |
It varies from country to country, and institution to institution, and day to day, which is why it's so important not to get too obsessed with the numbers and comparisons at this stage. Just follow the guidelines for now, the detail will resolve months down the line. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:54 - Apr 2 with 1442 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:31 - Apr 2 by NthQldITFC |
It varies from country to country, and institution to institution, and day to day, which is why it's so important not to get too obsessed with the numbers and comparisons at this stage. Just follow the guidelines for now, the detail will resolve months down the line. |
Indeed. The overall stats show who is at risk and why. And there's enough of them that everyone has a responsibility not to increase that risk even if they themselves are highly unlikely to be troubled by the virus. |  |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:57 - Apr 2 with 1441 views | Cotty |
But it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have died from a heart attack without the pressure on their bodies caused by the virus. How do you disentangle causes? You really can't for an individual, truth be told. It only comes out in the longterm statistics. |  | | |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 10:52 - Apr 2 with 1385 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:57 - Apr 2 by Cotty |
But it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have died from a heart attack without the pressure on their bodies caused by the virus. How do you disentangle causes? You really can't for an individual, truth be told. It only comes out in the longterm statistics. |
Morning. Hope you're doing well Cotty. |  |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 11:13 - Apr 2 with 1346 views | WeWereZombies |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:57 - Apr 2 by Cotty |
But it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have died from a heart attack without the pressure on their bodies caused by the virus. How do you disentangle causes? You really can't for an individual, truth be told. It only comes out in the longterm statistics. |
We all have our physical weaknesses, or even lack of mental resolve in the face of disease, that can tip us over the edge when succumbing to diseases that others recover from. So to exclude Covid-19 deaths also resulting from contributory factors would skew the numbers too. Perhaps no one has exclusively died from Covid-19 but it would take a full post mortem on every corpse to establish that, which is the last thing you want to do under the circumstances. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:56]
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 11:16 - Apr 2 with 1342 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:31 - Apr 2 by NthQldITFC |
It varies from country to country, and institution to institution, and day to day, which is why it's so important not to get too obsessed with the numbers and comparisons at this stage. Just follow the guidelines for now, the detail will resolve months down the line. |
Hence the figures for Germany being so much lower. We don’t actually record how many die from Covid-19 just how many who die tested positive for it,
It is worth remembering that around 600,000 die each year in the UK. |  |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 11:33 - Apr 2 with 1312 views | BloomBlue |
I thought it followed the individual Countries guidelines. So if you had a hearth attack but that didn't kill you but left you in a life threatening situation often pneumonia eventually kills you. I thought some Countries count that as Pneumonia as the cause of death, while other count it as heart attack as the cause. |  | | |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 11:58 - Apr 2 with 1267 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 09:57 - Apr 2 by Cotty |
But it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have died from a heart attack without the pressure on their bodies caused by the virus. How do you disentangle causes? You really can't for an individual, truth be told. It only comes out in the longterm statistics. |
You can’t disentangle cause if death in a lot of cases involving the elderly.
My mother died last month, aged 98, She was admitted into Addenbrookes twice this year, each time tested for covid-19. The last time it was suspected she had Sepsis, but tests showed she didn’t.
It was explained there were a number of reasons they could record for her death. Had she been tested positive for coved-19 she would have been included in the Covid-19 stats. Each day, for the England figures they give the age range of those included. The upper figure is rarely below 95. | |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:02 - Apr 2 with 1259 views | Cotty |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 11:13 - Apr 2 by WeWereZombies |
We all have our physical weaknesses, or even lack of mental resolve in the face of disease, that can tip us over the edge when succumbing to diseases that others recover from. So to exclude Covid-19 deaths also resulting from contributory factors would skew the numbers too. Perhaps no one has exclusively died from Covid-19 but it would take a full post mortem on every corpse to establish that, which is the last thing you want to do under the circumstances. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:56]
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No, you don't need to do that, you just need to look at mortality of people with a particular condition who have CV, and compare it with the mortality of that same group without CV. As I say, it's borne out in longterm statistics, there is no benefit from extensive post mortems. Let the statisticians do their job on this one. | | | |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:11 - Apr 2 with 1225 views | WeWereZombies |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 11:58 - Apr 2 by Pinewoodblue |
You can’t disentangle cause if death in a lot of cases involving the elderly.
My mother died last month, aged 98, She was admitted into Addenbrookes twice this year, each time tested for covid-19. The last time it was suspected she had Sepsis, but tests showed she didn’t.
It was explained there were a number of reasons they could record for her death. Had she been tested positive for coved-19 she would have been included in the Covid-19 stats. Each day, for the England figures they give the age range of those included. The upper figure is rarely below 95. |
Condolences on the passing of your mother, even without the additional stress of this epidemic the passing of a parent is difficult to bear. | |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:18 - Apr 2 with 1196 views | GluedtoBlue |
It is people who died having tested positive for Covid-19.
The deaths are therefore overstated in terms of how Covid-19 compares to something like the seasonal flu, which is recorded as cause of death. The key question is how overstated is the number - who knows!?
Of course, we should all be following the guidelines - and I am - but it does make you wonder what the overall UK death toll will look like in 12 months time given that, on average, 1,700 people die each day anyway. |  |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:27 - Apr 2 with 1180 views | WeWereZombies |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:02 - Apr 2 by Cotty |
No, you don't need to do that, you just need to look at mortality of people with a particular condition who have CV, and compare it with the mortality of that same group without CV. As I say, it's borne out in longterm statistics, there is no benefit from extensive post mortems. Let the statisticians do their job on this one. |
I'm not arguing that the statisticians will fail to produce useful figures but I am wary that, because of the national differences pointed out by PinewoodBlue and BloomBlue and GluedtoBlue in this thread, the statistics will be satisfactorily comparable, And they will not be timely. | |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:30 - Apr 2 with 1169 views | gordon |
This issue is being overplayed and focused on by a few numerically illiterate journalists. The value in the numbers currently produced are to make reasonable comparisons between the state and stage of the outbreak between countries. They aren't suited to making judgements on the overall significance of COVID compared to other mortality sources. As Cotty said, statisticians will be able to do a fine job of that when the outbreak is over. |  | | |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:59 - Apr 2 with 1121 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:27 - Apr 2 by WeWereZombies |
I'm not arguing that the statisticians will fail to produce useful figures but I am wary that, because of the national differences pointed out by PinewoodBlue and BloomBlue and GluedtoBlue in this thread, the statistics will be satisfactorily comparable, And they will not be timely. |
A quick internet search shows that the final death figures for 2018 were only issued in August 2019. There will be long wait for final figures are released for this year. | |
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| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 13:29 - Apr 2 with 1096 views | Bluesquid |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:18 - Apr 2 by GluedtoBlue |
It is people who died having tested positive for Covid-19.
The deaths are therefore overstated in terms of how Covid-19 compares to something like the seasonal flu, which is recorded as cause of death. The key question is how overstated is the number - who knows!?
Of course, we should all be following the guidelines - and I am - but it does make you wonder what the overall UK death toll will look like in 12 months time given that, on average, 1,700 people die each day anyway. |
Also worth mentioning and relevant to your post is that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) publishes weekly counts of deaths in which COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.
Included in this count are cases where COVID-19 is suspected but no test has taken place. | | | |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 15:29 - Apr 2 with 1018 views | Cotty |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 12:27 - Apr 2 by WeWereZombies |
I'm not arguing that the statisticians will fail to produce useful figures but I am wary that, because of the national differences pointed out by PinewoodBlue and BloomBlue and GluedtoBlue in this thread, the statistics will be satisfactorily comparable, And they will not be timely. |
Every death and every survival narrows the uncertainty. There's no rushing this one I'm afraid. | | | |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 15:59 - Apr 2 with 979 views | WeWereZombies |
| The Coronavirus Death Figures on 15:29 - Apr 2 by Cotty |
Every death and every survival narrows the uncertainty. There's no rushing this one I'm afraid. |
And every delay in getting to a rough workable figure leaves dead in its wake. It is a dilemma as old as the hills. | |
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