| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist 14:13 - Mar 2 with 11621 views | giant_stow |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436
Assuming we're allowed to talk about this now the case has finished, finding her guilty seems harsh to me, let alone 3 years of prison. Partially sighted person gets cross at a cyclist on a pavement.... except no one seems to know if its a pavement or shared track. Isn;t the council ultimately at fault? |  |
| |  |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 10:21 - Mar 3 with 1314 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 09:06 - Mar 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Given she does look like she’s got learning difficulties it does seem harsh. But then the consequence of her behaviour was pretty harsh on the cyclist too - she’s the real victim. Tragic story really.
You’d think there’s likely to be an appeal to reduce the sentence. |
I think there already is, and I'd be amazed if her sentence isn't reduced as a result.
"The trial heard Grey had cerebral palsy and was partially sighted, but the judge said: "These actions are not explained by disability" (fom the OP's link).
Think the trial judge made a rod for his own back there. Unless I've missed something, the vision of the defendant is inescapably an intrinsic part of the tragic incident. Maybe the cerebral palsy too, but only she & medical people would know that. |  |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 10:41 - Mar 3 with 1290 views | stonojnr |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 10:21 - Mar 3 by Ryorry |
I think there already is, and I'd be amazed if her sentence isn't reduced as a result.
"The trial heard Grey had cerebral palsy and was partially sighted, but the judge said: "These actions are not explained by disability" (fom the OP's link).
Think the trial judge made a rod for his own back there. Unless I've missed something, the vision of the defendant is inescapably an intrinsic part of the tragic incident. Maybe the cerebral palsy too, but only she & medical people would know that. |
manslaughter is typically 2 -10 years, it can be life imprisonment, so 3 years is probably about right given the circumstances.
she could have got a 30% reduction to that sentence had she pled guilty at the earliest opportunity, but didnt, and a lack of remorse counts against you in the sentencing guidelines, you would have thought her legal council would have advised her of that. |  | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 10:51 - Mar 3 with 1285 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 10:41 - Mar 3 by stonojnr |
manslaughter is typically 2 -10 years, it can be life imprisonment, so 3 years is probably about right given the circumstances.
she could have got a 30% reduction to that sentence had she pled guilty at the earliest opportunity, but didnt, and a lack of remorse counts against you in the sentencing guidelines, you would have thought her legal council would have advised her of that. |
As I said in one of my earlier posts, the judge could have made the prison sentence a suspended one, which I think is what most people working within the judicial system would have expected in the circumstances.
Meanwhile of course she's already spending time behind bars, where I suspect that, with her disabilities, she may be having a particularly bad time. | |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 12:45 - Mar 3 with 1220 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 10:51 - Mar 3 by Ryorry |
As I said in one of my earlier posts, the judge could have made the prison sentence a suspended one, which I think is what most people working within the judicial system would have expected in the circumstances.
Meanwhile of course she's already spending time behind bars, where I suspect that, with her disabilities, she may be having a particularly bad time. |
I imagine the partner and family of the killed woman, not to mention the driver of the car, are having a particularly bad time. You seem to have forgotten about them. I can't imagine they'd be too chuffed with your idea that the pedestrian shouldn't go to prison at all. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 13:14 - Mar 3 with 1210 views | giant_stow |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 12:45 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I imagine the partner and family of the killed woman, not to mention the driver of the car, are having a particularly bad time. You seem to have forgotten about them. I can't imagine they'd be too chuffed with your idea that the pedestrian shouldn't go to prison at all. |
I'm sure they're all desperate and destroyed, but that doesn't mean that the pedestrian caused the lady's death, or at least not solely. | |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 13:52 - Mar 3 with 1161 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 13:14 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
I'm sure they're all desperate and destroyed, but that doesn't mean that the pedestrian caused the lady's death, or at least not solely. |
The pedestrian did cause the lady's death. If she hand't been there - or hadn't confronted the lady - she'd still be alive. And as mentioned several times in the thread, the sentence doesn't just reflect that a person died. It's the fact that the pedestrian showed no remorse, went off to do grocery shopping immediately after, lied about what happened etc. I expect most normal people, including yourself, would be absolutely horrified, would try to help (or at least stay there until the emergency services arrived), and certainly wouldn't just go off and do their shopping. Incredible.
Also, suspending the sentence would set a dangerous precedent that people can just scare cyclists into the path of traffic - killing them - and get away with it. Sorry but I'm on the victim's side in this. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:05 - Mar 3 with 1139 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 13:14 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
I'm sure they're all desperate and destroyed, but that doesn't mean that the pedestrian caused the lady's death, or at least not solely. |
And two wrongs don’t make a right.
I also never cease to be amazed at how some people seem to believe that holding a view on something means that you can’t simultaneously also hold a view on the “other side”. I’m sure nobody’s forgotten about the poor woman who died and her family, I certainly haven’t. There is such a thing as wanting justice for *all*. | |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:12 - Mar 3 with 1130 views | giant_stow |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:05 - Mar 3 by Ryorry |
And two wrongs don’t make a right.
I also never cease to be amazed at how some people seem to believe that holding a view on something means that you can’t simultaneously also hold a view on the “other side”. I’m sure nobody’s forgotten about the poor woman who died and her family, I certainly haven’t. There is such a thing as wanting justice for *all*. |
well said. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:13 - Mar 3 with 1126 views | giant_stow |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 13:52 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The pedestrian did cause the lady's death. If she hand't been there - or hadn't confronted the lady - she'd still be alive. And as mentioned several times in the thread, the sentence doesn't just reflect that a person died. It's the fact that the pedestrian showed no remorse, went off to do grocery shopping immediately after, lied about what happened etc. I expect most normal people, including yourself, would be absolutely horrified, would try to help (or at least stay there until the emergency services arrived), and certainly wouldn't just go off and do their shopping. Incredible.
Also, suspending the sentence would set a dangerous precedent that people can just scare cyclists into the path of traffic - killing them - and get away with it. Sorry but I'm on the victim's side in this. |
no point in me re-hashing everything already said previously in response mr - its all there above. | |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:32 - Mar 3 with 1094 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:12 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
well said. |
Thanks. I’d add that a suspended sentence is still a sentence, one which constantly reminds the offender that they have to keep their noses squeaky clean, or back to jail for the full term they’ll go.
I think many criminologists would argue that’s more reformative than the offender potentially building up resentment whilst inside and then being released after the sentence with an “attitude”. | |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:34 - Mar 3 with 1090 views | Skip_Intro |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 13:52 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The pedestrian did cause the lady's death. If she hand't been there - or hadn't confronted the lady - she'd still be alive. And as mentioned several times in the thread, the sentence doesn't just reflect that a person died. It's the fact that the pedestrian showed no remorse, went off to do grocery shopping immediately after, lied about what happened etc. I expect most normal people, including yourself, would be absolutely horrified, would try to help (or at least stay there until the emergency services arrived), and certainly wouldn't just go off and do their shopping. Incredible.
Also, suspending the sentence would set a dangerous precedent that people can just scare cyclists into the path of traffic - killing them - and get away with it. Sorry but I'm on the victim's side in this. |
The pedestrian is by all accounts a vulnerable person - i.e. not necessarily a 'normal' person to use your language.
That doesn't necessarily excuse her actions, although being a partially sighted vulnerable person seeing someone speeding towards them on a pavement might make them react differently to how a 'normal' person would with all of their faculties and senses.
We also don't know whether there are other circumstances that might mean that she cannot/did not 'show remorse' in the way that we would expect a 'normal' person to - I am no expert on cerebral palsy but it's possible that her condition(s) affected her reaction afterwards.
She clearly isn't a 'normal' person as you've compared her to in your post. |  | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:36 - Mar 3 with 1081 views | stonojnr |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 10:51 - Mar 3 by Ryorry |
As I said in one of my earlier posts, the judge could have made the prison sentence a suspended one, which I think is what most people working within the judicial system would have expected in the circumstances.
Meanwhile of course she's already spending time behind bars, where I suspect that, with her disabilities, she may be having a particularly bad time. |
The judge considered a custodial sentence was appropriate, the guidelines are fairly restrictive in that if she is found guilty then this sentence results from these facts, it doesnt become that subjective.
Ultimately they saw all the evidence, heard all the testimony, and i think its necessary to point out we havent seen the full cctv, which is something the police involved in the case have stressed
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64835197 | | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:37 - Mar 3 with 1073 views | Nutkins_Return |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 18:36 - Mar 2 by giant_stow |
I think its important to separate the tragic nature of this with the causes.
I really don't want to upset anyone, but I would say there were various causes to this: the pedestrian's actions, the pedestrian's vulnerability, the 'design' (or lack of) of the pathway / combined with the apparent speed of car traffic and also, I'm really sorry to say, the lack of rider ability.
Blaming the death of the cyclist completely on the pedestrian seems unjust to me. |
The pedestrians actions here were the primary cause of someone dying. They didn't deliberately kill them or it would have been a much longer sentence.
Completely unnecessary and aggressive behaviour which recklessly endangered someone life (that should be obvious by a busy road). It's unlucky it did lead to a death of course but blame is there.
Had she not lied through her teeth and shown earlier remorse (and frankly it is despicable that she just left and went on with her day and shopping before the energy services arrived) I'm sure her sentence would have been more lenient. I really can't muster sympathy here on the balance of facts stated and the video. | | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:45 - Mar 3 with 1052 views | Swansea_Blue |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:05 - Mar 3 by Ryorry |
And two wrongs don’t make a right.
I also never cease to be amazed at how some people seem to believe that holding a view on something means that you can’t simultaneously also hold a view on the “other side”. I’m sure nobody’s forgotten about the poor woman who died and her family, I certainly haven’t. There is such a thing as wanting justice for *all*. |
Well said indeed, and there's a lesson there for all of us. On reflection, this is a time when I wish I could upvote a post more than once. |  |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:45 - Mar 3 with 1041 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:13 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
no point in me re-hashing everything already said previously in response mr - its all there above. |
Fine. But not once in this thread have you addressed her lack of remorse, her attempts to give a false narrative, or the fact that she just went off to do her grocery shopping without even waiting for the emergency services. Seems like you're avoiding answering those points for some reason. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:49 - Mar 3 with 1049 views | Ryorry |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:36 - Mar 3 by stonojnr |
The judge considered a custodial sentence was appropriate, the guidelines are fairly restrictive in that if she is found guilty then this sentence results from these facts, it doesnt become that subjective.
Ultimately they saw all the evidence, heard all the testimony, and i think its necessary to point out we havent seen the full cctv, which is something the police involved in the case have stressed
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64835197 |
As I said before, *a suspended sentence is a custodial sentence*. It’s simply suspended - a “sword of Damocles” hanging over someone if you like.
Some people appear not to understand the law on this, but it’s very clear. | |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:52 - Mar 3 with 1014 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:34 - Mar 3 by Skip_Intro |
The pedestrian is by all accounts a vulnerable person - i.e. not necessarily a 'normal' person to use your language.
That doesn't necessarily excuse her actions, although being a partially sighted vulnerable person seeing someone speeding towards them on a pavement might make them react differently to how a 'normal' person would with all of their faculties and senses.
We also don't know whether there are other circumstances that might mean that she cannot/did not 'show remorse' in the way that we would expect a 'normal' person to - I am no expert on cerebral palsy but it's possible that her condition(s) affected her reaction afterwards.
She clearly isn't a 'normal' person as you've compared her to in your post. |
The judge - who has seen all the evidence - seemed to think these weren't a factor. And from the footage she doesn't seem suddenly startled (due to partial sight) - she's actively confronting the cyclist.
There's also no evidence the cyclist was "speeding". You've just added that in to give weight to your argument. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:57 - Mar 3 with 997 views | Skip_Intro |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:52 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The judge - who has seen all the evidence - seemed to think these weren't a factor. And from the footage she doesn't seem suddenly startled (due to partial sight) - she's actively confronting the cyclist.
There's also no evidence the cyclist was "speeding". You've just added that in to give weight to your argument. |
Point 1. I was replying to your point about her not showing remorse like a 'normal' person and suggesting why that might be the case
Point 2. I didn't say that the cyclist was 'speeding' - I said that the pedestrian was "seeing someone speeding towards them" - big difference.
Not sure whether you're being obtuse or just spoiling for an argument - either way have a lovely afternoon. [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 14:57]
| | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:57 - Mar 3 with 986 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:49 - Mar 3 by Ryorry |
As I said before, *a suspended sentence is a custodial sentence*. It’s simply suspended - a “sword of Damocles” hanging over someone if you like.
Some people appear not to understand the law on this, but it’s very clear. |
Very patronising to suggest people don't understand the law just because they happen to disagree with you. It's very easy to carry on with your life with a suspended sentence. Just don't commit anymore crime, which shouldn't be a problem if you're a regular law abiding citizen. Hardly a “sword of Damocles” hanging over someone.
The woman who died, her family, and the motorist can't just carry on with their lives though. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:01 - Mar 3 with 978 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:57 - Mar 3 by Skip_Intro |
Point 1. I was replying to your point about her not showing remorse like a 'normal' person and suggesting why that might be the case
Point 2. I didn't say that the cyclist was 'speeding' - I said that the pedestrian was "seeing someone speeding towards them" - big difference.
Not sure whether you're being obtuse or just spoiling for an argument - either way have a lovely afternoon. [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 14:57]
|
Um, point 1 I've simply answered by referring to the judge, who came to the conclusion these weren't a factor, after seeing all the evidence. Point 2 seems like you're splitting hairs. Seems to me you're the one being obtuse or just spoiling for an argument. All I've stated are the facts. Whether the cyclist was speeding, or the pedestrian thought they were speeding towards them, is a bit of conjecture you've thrown in. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:04 - Mar 3 with 985 views | Skip_Intro |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:01 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Um, point 1 I've simply answered by referring to the judge, who came to the conclusion these weren't a factor, after seeing all the evidence. Point 2 seems like you're splitting hairs. Seems to me you're the one being obtuse or just spoiling for an argument. All I've stated are the facts. Whether the cyclist was speeding, or the pedestrian thought they were speeding towards them, is a bit of conjecture you've thrown in. |
I'm bored of you now (well I mean even more bored of you than I was before) and am not going to play along with your deliberately obtuse posts trying to provoke responses.
Have a lovely day. | | | |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:11 - Mar 3 with 969 views | giant_stow |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 14:45 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Fine. But not once in this thread have you addressed her lack of remorse, her attempts to give a false narrative, or the fact that she just went off to do her grocery shopping without even waiting for the emergency services. Seems like you're avoiding answering those points for some reason. |
I said earlier 'she's not a lovely person' and as others have mentioned, she's described as 'childlike' in one report, so possibly has learning difficulties. None of that necessarily excuses her behavior, but it does go some way to explaining it. | |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:27 - Mar 3 with 938 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 13:52 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The pedestrian did cause the lady's death. If she hand't been there - or hadn't confronted the lady - she'd still be alive. And as mentioned several times in the thread, the sentence doesn't just reflect that a person died. It's the fact that the pedestrian showed no remorse, went off to do grocery shopping immediately after, lied about what happened etc. I expect most normal people, including yourself, would be absolutely horrified, would try to help (or at least stay there until the emergency services arrived), and certainly wouldn't just go off and do their shopping. Incredible.
Also, suspending the sentence would set a dangerous precedent that people can just scare cyclists into the path of traffic - killing them - and get away with it. Sorry but I'm on the victim's side in this. |
How have we become such a vengeful society? |  |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:40 - Mar 3 with 912 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:04 - Mar 3 by Skip_Intro |
I'm bored of you now (well I mean even more bored of you than I was before) and am not going to play along with your deliberately obtuse posts trying to provoke responses.
Have a lovely day. |
Don't know why you've suddenly got all aggressive, I've just answered points put to me with the facts as we know them. Nothing obtuse or looking for responses. I just feel like it's generally polite when someone asks you something or puts a point to you, to answer it.
In fact it was you who replied to me first in this thread, so I'm not sure how it's me who's looking to provoke responses between us. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:49 - Mar 3 with 906 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| weird story: pedestrian jailed for causing death of a cyclist on 15:11 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
I said earlier 'she's not a lovely person' and as others have mentioned, she's described as 'childlike' in one report, so possibly has learning difficulties. None of that necessarily excuses her behavior, but it does go some way to explaining it. |
I'm not sure a short throwaway comment like 'she's not a lovely person' really answers all of those points, but there we are. You can't be arrested for simply not being a lovely person.
Regardless of whether or not you think she might have learning difficulties, the judge decided (after seeing all the evidence we aren't privy to) that they weren't enough to be relevant in terms of her sentencing. It seem like adding more in is just making excuses.
As I said at the start of this thread, my initial response to your OP was it seems a bit harsh. But then when I read the story fully - and all the facts - I could see why.
If I put myself in the shoes of the dead woman's partner I would certainly not want the person who caused her death, and then went grocery shopping, without any remorse, to get off with a suspended sentence. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
